Thread: Dangers of lucid dreaming? (A response to the Arizona shooting)

There is a connection between lucid dreaming and psychiatric issues.

there is also a new novel out that explores this very phenomenon: "LUCID"

Originally Posted by LucidStu

There is a connection between lucid dreaming and psychiatric issues.

there is also a new novel out that explores this very phenomenon: "LUCID"

A novel. A work of fiction.

EDIT: And apparently written by yourself. Just sayin'.

Ummm, am I the only one who noticed this?

"In conclusion, my ambition - is for informing literate dreamers about a new currency; in a few days, you know I'm conscience dreaming! Thank you!"

This was posted up days before he shot her....meaning he didn't know what the f$%k he was talking about with regards to lucid dreaming lol. Actually, lucid dreaming has a way of REDUCING the amount of psychiatric issues. He also said "conscience" not conscious. This means he was referring to something completely different, especially with the fact he was linking "conscience dreaming", and shooting a Congresswoman. Look at the guys face, he was obviously quite deluded. That being said, if you pursue lucid dreaming without the aide of a dream guide, or already being schizo...who knows? I don't have much experience here. In all reality, most of the population lives a deluded life anyways, and most of America has hidden neurosis out the wazoo. Lucid dreaming leads to better control of your thoughts and mind, and body control. Anyone who says otherwise...probably hasn't consciously induced a lucid dream, or performed a WILD. You learn to defeat your nightmares, and to take back control of your mind.

In any case, any experience LDer will tell you, "conscience dreaming" is not "conscious dreaming". If the guy really knew about it, he would of spelled it correctly.

Originally Posted by Ayanizz

A novel. A work of fiction.

EDIT: And apparently written by yourself. Just sayin'.

I'm not sure you comment, EDIT, makes any sense to this. Maybe you should edit yourself a bit before commenting. Just sayin'

Originally Posted by LucidStu

I'm not sure you comment, EDIT, makes any sense to this. Maybe you should edit yourself a bit before commenting. Just sayin'

It makes perfect sense when a person who's been here since October last year, in his very first post, uses something horrible that happened to make a cheap advertisement for a book he wrote himself.

Originally Posted by Moto

Ummm, am I the only one who noticed this?

"In conclusion, my ambition - is for informing literate dreamers about a new currency; in a few days, you know I'm conscience dreaming! Thank you!"

This was posted up days before he shot her....meaning he didn't know what the f$%k he was talking about with regards to lucid dreaming lol. Actually, lucid dreaming has a way of REDUCING the amount of psychiatric issues. He also said "conscience" not conscious. This means he was referring to something completely different, especially with the fact he was linking "conscience dreaming", and shooting a Congresswoman. Look at the guys face, he was obviously quite deluded. That being said, if you pursue lucid dreaming without the aide of a dream guide, or already being schizo...who knows? I don't have much experience here. In all reality, most of the population lives a deluded life anyways, and most of America has hidden neurosis out the wazoo. Lucid dreaming leads to better control of your thoughts and mind, and body control. Anyone who says otherwise...probably hasn't consciously induced a lucid dream, or performed a WILD. You learn to defeat your nightmares, and to take back control of your mind.

In any case, any experience LDer will tell you, "conscience dreaming" is not "conscious dreaming". If the guy really knew about it, he would of spelled it correctly.

good post, of course it does. lucid dreaming is about learning to recognise the difference between reality and dream situations. of course the people who knock it will tell you that mental problems come from not recognising the difference between dreams and reality, when in fact it is the non lucid who go through their dreams every night thinking it is real life.

Originally Posted by Ayanizz

It makes perfect sense when a person who's been here since October last year, in his very first post, uses something horrible that happened to make a cheap advertisement for a book he wrote himself.

I spent two years researching the connection between the dreaming mind and mental illness for this book. I interviewed several experts in the field; the novel was vetted by Ph.Ds as well as new york times best-selling writers.

The reason I posted this is because there is a scientific connection between lucid dreaming and mental illness. Maybe instead of attacking someone who can offer germain information to the topic, you should calm down and show a little restraint in your off-the-cuff remarks. Tone down your edits until they have something important to add to the conversation.

Originally Posted by LucidStu

Maybe instead of attacking someone who can offer germain information to the topic, you should calm down and show a little restraint in your off-the-cuff remarks. Tone down your edits until they have something important to add to the conversation.

I wouldn't have "attacked" if you had indeed given relevant information. All you did now was "There's a link between blah and blah, buy my book." So, according to you, what did this add to the conversation?

my last reply to you ayanizz, and then the floor is all yours for all of eternity.

I was brief, I was to the point, I never said "blah" nor "buy my book"

Originally Posted by LucidStu

I was brief, I was to the point, I never said "blah" nor "buy my book"

Good, this was going to be my last one to you either way And no, you didn't say that, not literally anyway. Have a good day/night/whatever time it's there at the moment.

And remember, there is no such thing as bad publicity. The book looks interesting - good work.

Regardless of the facts of this case, the idea of believing you are lucid but actually awake is fascinating from a conceptual standpoint and was addressed in the movie Inception. Also interesting is if a person could make another believe this by creating a situation that makes the other suspect realty and falsely believe the experience is a dream. Here is an older Columbo script on Google Books that employs this idea as the murder device (the killer makes the victim believe she is lucid dreaming and she accidentally commits suicide thinking she can fly off a cliff).

COLUMBO: Perchance to Dream - Google Books

Just because this guy was a big lucid dreamer doesn't that is what drove him to insanity or whatever. That's like saying "He breathes air too! Air will make you shoot up a rally!" If you ask me, his drug usage was to blame.

From THE LUCID DREAM MANIFESTO, 1974:
“What if the ability to determine dream world from waking world should vanish? As in accounts of pre-lucid dreams where persons logically and consciously inspect the dream environment and decide it is real, is it not possible to consciously analyze the waking world and determine it is a dream—visions of people jumping off buildings and such?”

Originally Posted by Moto

That being said, if you pursue lucid dreaming without the aide of a dream guide, or already being schizo...who knows?

There's nothing wrong with not having a dream guide.

Originally Posted by illidan

There's nothing wrong with not having a dream guide.

You can teach yourself, its easier once you accept a dream guide. But you are right, there is nothing wrong with not having a dream guide. Everyone is different. At first I did not have a dream guide, but that was because it is hard for me to accept being taught by another, because I have always taught myself. But I learned a heck of a lot once I got over this hurdle.

I feel like this issue is far greater than the separate issues which make it up. Pardon me for ranting but here's my two cents. Many of us wish to make an impact on society, to be known, to make a change or a difference in the world we live in or be remembered for what we've done and the vast majority of people are able to comfortably tailor their goals to their abilities within reason. Some individuals however, have grotesquely inflated delusions of self worth or importance and they feel that their actions justify their cause or mission. If they feel they are unable to make any kind of difference through their abilities of persuasion or talents they may result to the most primal level, violence. Anyone with a hand gun could be famous. In the case of this guy his lucid dreaming probably reflected his delusions however I would doubt that they created them. Hitler was a talented artist, should we blame art for the holocaust? I think the media just innately lunges for convenient buzzwords or concepts to distill complex issues into simple headlines because a lot of people just want to be told what to believe.

I think the fact that this guy was able to legally own an automatic hand gun with high capacity magazines might play more of a role.

Originally Posted by Anomalous

I feel like this issue is far greater than the separate issues which make it up. Pardon me for ranting but here's my two cents. Many of us wish to make an impact on society, to be known, to make a change or a difference in the world we live in or be remembered for what we've done and the vast majority of people are able to comfortably tailor their goals to their abilities within reason. Some individuals however, have grotesquely inflated delusions of self worth or importance and they feel that their actions justify their cause or mission. If they feel they are unable to make any kind of difference through their abilities of persuasion or talents they may result to the most primal level, violence. Anyone with a hand gun could be famous. In the case of this guy his lucid dreaming probably reflected his delusions however I would doubt that they created them. Hitler was a talented artist, should we blame art for the holocaust? I think the media just innately lunges for convenient buzzwords or concepts to distill complex issues into simple headlines because a lot of people just want to be told what to believe.

I think the fact that this guy was able to legally own an automatic hand gun with high capacity magazines might play more of a role.

That is the best post on the topic I have seen on many sites.

Originally Posted by Anomalous

I think the fact that this guy was able to legally own an automatic hand gun with high capacity magazines might play more of a role.

This I do not understand either. I know there's a lot of Americans going kinda jumpy when you try to touch their Second Amendment, but when something like this then happens they are oh so quick to point fingers elsewhere. I don't understand how it is possible that a guy who has been removed from classes by force for mentally instable behavior, who posed a potential danger to society, can walk into a gunstore and buy himself a glock because he hasn't commited a felony yet.

Congrats to your post btw, I fully agree with topcat

Anomalous, great post, I agree completely.

Jared Lee Loughner, Alleged Tucson Shooting Gunman, Appears in Court Today - ABC News

If you look here, there was no mention of LD'ing..

Originally Posted by Ayanizz

This I do not understand either. I know there's a lot of Americans going kinda jumpy when you try to touch their Second Amendment, but when something like this then happens they are oh so quick to point fingers elsewhere. I don't understand how it is possible that a guy who has been removed from classes by force for mentally instable behavior, who posed a potential danger to society, can walk into a gunstore and buy himself a glock because he hasn't commited a felony yet.

Congrats to your post btw, I fully agree with topcat

Well I agree that it is crazy, but there is no way to legislate away access to guns. You'd need a time machine to do that. Even if everyone who had any sort of mental disturbance was not allowed to purchase guns, there is nothing stopping them from grabbing one from a friend or family member. This guy's dad had guns. His friends had guns. A crazy person who wants to go on a shooting rampage is going to do it regardless of the law. I wonder why a glock should be for sale in the first place, but I know plenty of responsible, law-abiding people who love to shoot them at shows and ranges. Apparently if you are into guns (I am not) then they are fun to shoot. I'm not interested. But he could've done this without a glock.

The problem with gun legislation is that there are already so many guns that you can't keep them away from people anymore. THey are here to stay- more guns than people- and have been here since the founding of the country. And in many places, they are necessary for hunting and things like that (not glocks, but you know what I mean). Most poeple in the US do not live in cities, though this kid did.

I don't know. I don't own a gun and usually I vote more on the political left which is usually pro-gun control, but I don't see what good any gun laws will do. Considering that milllions of people have guns and never cause any problem with them, I think the problems that cause the violence are more complex than access to weapons. Societal problems, drugs, wealth divide, suburban alienation, culture of poverty in the ghetto, and -in this case- mental instability cause the violence. It's sad.

My concerns regarding this lie in that most people don't know what a lucid dream is, and when they hear this news presented from the angle of "what's all this lucid dreaming stuff? this shooter was a lucid dreamer, he did this and this with his dreams, should we be worried, Inception covered the topic of lucid dreaming", people then become educated with the following misinterpretations:
- Lucid dreaming was presented to them in relation to a dangerous twisted human being, therefore this activity will appear shady, and
- Inception defines lucid dreaming. Watch it to understand the activity.

People will do this subconsciously because they have no other education on the subject. :/

Just because the guy was interested in lucid dreaming doesn't mean there is any connection between that and the terrible thing he did. But then, if he was mentally unhinged, he may have had a hard time distinguishing between his dreams and reality. In such a case he may have seen no more of a problem shooting people in the waking world than we would shooting dream characters (though I hope nobody overly enjoys doing that either). I think the lucid dreaming may be indirectly related, but not a cause.

It isn't as silly a theory as the "Sarah Palin made him do it" theory based on the idea that one of the people wounded was a democrat (remember, one of the victims was a Republican federal judge, appointed by Bush. Also, this killer never paid attention to mainstream politics, never watched TV or listened to the radio, was a registered independant, and a Marxist). That kind of political finger pointing is ridiculous, and is a tasteless attempt by some to push their own agendas.

As for the whole gun rights angle, I am a supporter of the second amendment. Things like this do make you wonder about how easy it is for mentally unstable people getting guns, but it is likely that the sort of person who will kill can get hold of a gun illegally if he wanted to. Or else he would find a way to kill besides shooting.

The whole thing is just sad. I shudder to think of the possibility of that kind of person browsing this forum.