Dream Within a dream theory

**ElectaGuitar** · 02-15-2011 03:23 AM

In my dream last night, I was thinking about my real life body. Doing so causes me to wake up 10 seconds later. I thought, "NOT THIS TIME!" and pulled out an inception-like dream machine, and went to sleep inside the dream. I woke up into another dream, and then i thought about my real life body. No dream collapsing.

Do dreams within dreams help stability? Or just another placaebo effect?

**MadMonkey** · 02-15-2011 03:48 AM

When ever I have dreams with in dreams or DEILD or multiple FAs it usualy destabilizes me. False awakenings that start in my room are usualy more stable for me though so if its just one FA it actualy helps me. After a long chain of DEILDs I feel sort of drained until I cant do it anymore. It probably varies though from person to person and using inception as an archetype could definitly help it.

**Supernova** · 02-15-2011 03:53 AM

I don't know of any evidence to support the idea of dreams-within-dreams working anything like they do in Inception to begin with. Think about it; it doesn't really make sense. In dreams, everything litterally requires your attention to exist. If you're not even in the first dream to begin with, it's not like it's still there waiting for you while you're in a dream within it. That scenario ceases to exist as soon as you leave it.

By the same token, if using this just as archetype control gets you the results you want, then by all means go for it.

**Jay12341235** · 02-15-2011 03:58 AM

placebo or not, it still works for you, doesn't it?

**ElectaGuitar** · 02-15-2011 04:01 AM

Originally Posted by Supernova

I don't know of any evidence to support the idea of dreams-within-dreams working anything like they do in Inception to begin with. Think about it; it doesn't really make sense. In dreams, everything litterally requires your attention to exist. If you're not even in the first dream to begin with, it's not like it's still there waiting for you while you're in a dream within it. That scenario ceases to exist as soon as you leave it.

By the same token, if using this just as archetype control gets you the results you want, then by all means go for it.

Not everything requires your attention to exist. This is why things in your dream literally come from nowhere. I think that your super-conscious (subsubconscious) controls this, to some extent. I would even go as far as labeling it "layered dreams" such as the movie inception.

**iFatal** · 02-15-2011 04:09 AM

In my opinion you can't have a dream in a dream. If you are dreaming that you fall sleep in that dream and dream it's basically just the same dream turning into that dream you think is another dream. (Tough twister ftw.)

For Example: I had a lucid dream that turned into an false awakening. In that FA I was laying down in my bed and I thought I was actually awake and in the FA I dreamed about sleep paralysis. Now you could say that was a dream inside a dream but I think it was just the same dream I had turning into another dream.

And even if you dream you are inside another dream and wake up inside the first dream you dreamed you were dreaming, that dream is just simply just the same dream turning into that dream where you dreamed you were dreaming.

(Another tough twister haha)

**MadMonkey** · 02-15-2011 04:11 AM

Even if your not paying conscious attention to it doesn't mean your not paying attention to it.

I doubt our brains would find any reason to simulate a whole nother dream or two that your not even experiencing though.

Edit: oh and iFatal is right. A dream with in a dream would actualy just be a dream anout having a dream with in a dream.

**ElectaGuitar** · 02-15-2011 04:16 AM

Originally Posted by iFatal

And even if you dream you are inside another dream and wake up inside the first dream you dreamed you were dreaming, that dream is just simply just the same dream turning into that dream where you dreamed you were dreaming.

This makes perfect sense, thank you.

**MindGames** · 02-15-2011 04:16 AM

I believe that it may be possible to dream inside of a dream. It is possible that your subconscious could still retain the information of the outer-layer dream whilst dreaming the inner-layer dream. To achieve an Inception-like effect, the inner dream would have to happen very quickly from the point of view of an outside observer, but from the dreamer's perception it would last a long time, therefore causing instability since the mind can only work so fast. It is still possible that the dreamer wakes up in real life from the inner layer dream, but it is also feasible that the dreamer could wake up into the outer layer dream if he chose to.

I say this because I believe that time dilation within dreams is possible. I haven't gotten the chance to test it yet, but I plan on testing the idea soon.

**MadMonkey** · 02-15-2011 04:22 AM

Originally Posted by MindGames

I believe that it may be possible to dream inside of a dream. It is possible that your subconscious could still retain the information of the outer-layer dream whilst dreaming the inner-layer dream. To achieve an Inception-like effect, the inner dream would have to happen very quickly from the point of view of an outside observer, but from the dreamer's perception it would last a long time, therefore causing instability since the mind can only work so fast. It is still possible that the dreamer wakes up in real life from the inner layer dream, but it is also feasible that the dreamer could wake up into the outer layer dream if he chose to.

I say this because I believe that time dilation within dreams is possible. I haven't gotten the chance to test it yet, but I plan on testing the idea soon.

The op is not dealing with time dialation although time dialation, dream time is typicaly about the same as normal time and has nothing to do with how many false awakenings you have... unless you want it too.

**ElectaGuitar** · 02-15-2011 04:22 AM

Originally Posted by MindGames

I believe that it may be possible to dream inside of a dream. It is possible that your subconscious could still retain the information of the outer-layer dream whilst dreaming the inner-layer dream. To achieve an Inception-like effect, the inner dream would have to happen very quickly from the point of view of an outside observer, but from the dreamer's perception it would last a long time, therefore causing instability since the mind can only work so fast. It is still possible that the dreamer wakes up in real life from the inner layer dream, but it is also feasible that the dreamer could wake up into the outer layer dream if he chose to.

I say this because I believe that time dilation within dreams is possible. I haven't gotten the chance to test it yet, but I plan on testing the idea soon.

I believe that you can't fall asleep while you're dreaming, because you already ARE sleeping.

But it is quite plausible to achieve an effect of some sort. Just not the actual thing. Time slowing in dreams is also possible IMO, since we all perceive time differently, therefore we could make time seem slower. We've all had a class that felt like it was 5 hours, but a class-party goes by like nothing. It feels like I'm talking about stuff i don't know about, so take all this with a grain of salt, lol.

**StrangeDreamsGuy** · 02-15-2011 04:22 AM

You're just having a dream about being in a "dream within a dream", you aren't actually in one.
Inception is Hollywood.

**ElectaGuitar** · 02-15-2011 04:24 AM

Originally Posted by StrangeDreamsGuy

You're just having a dream about being in a "dream within a dream", you aren't actually in one.
Inception is Hollywood.

Inception might be Hollywood, but dream sharing theories and lucid dreaming have been around long before.

**MadMonkey** · 02-15-2011 04:27 AM

Originally Posted by StrangeDreamsGuy

You're just having a dream about being in a "dream within a dream", you aren't actually in one.
Inception is Hollywood.

Atleast its good Hollywood and what ElectaGuitar said.

**MindGames** · 02-15-2011 04:32 AM

Originally Posted by MadMonkey

The op is not dealing with time dialation although time dialation, dream time is typicaly about the same as normal time and has nothing to do with how many false awakenings you have... unless you want it too.

Time dilation could very well be the mechanism by which dreaming within dreams can occur. I'm speaking of the Inception type of dreaming within a dream, where inner dreams last longer. In this type of dream within a dream, time does dilate. It is obviously untested, but it is possible that you can wake up into another dream if you used time dilation. You would simply do reverse time dilation and go back to the outer dream, so that time goes quicker as you ascend dream levels. Now, it's quite obvious that we are dreaming at all times, but you can be dreaming from the perspective of the outer dream assuming that the outer dream can be recalled upon awakening from the inner dream.

Originally Posted by ElectaGuitar

Inception might be Hollywood, but dream sharing theories and lucid dreaming have been around long before.

Okay, I can't let you group dream sharing with lucid dreaming. We have no reason to believe in dream sharing, since it violates the laws of physics.

**ElectaGuitar** · 02-15-2011 04:37 AM

Originally Posted by MindGames

Okay, I can't let you group dream sharing with lucid dreaming. We have no reason to believe in dream sharing, since it violates the laws of physics.

>theory

Theory as in global warming theory, or psychic theory. We've all been told that people can Read minds and global warming is a global crisis, but how can we know for sure? Sorry if this is Poorly explained.

**MindGames** · 02-15-2011 04:43 AM

You can't believe everything you hear. Global warming has scientific evidence; the evidence for psychic powers is sketchy at best. But the topic of this thread is not about psychic powers, so it's best to leave that topic be.

**MadMonkey** · 02-15-2011 04:47 AM

Originally Posted by MindGames

Time dilation could very well be the mechanism by which dreaming within dreams can occur. I'm speaking of the Inception type of dreaming within a dream, where inner dreams last longer. In this type of dream within a dream, time does dilate. It is obviously untested, but it is possible that you can wake up into another dream if you used time dilation. You would simply do reverse time dilation and go back to the outer dream, so that time goes quicker as you ascend dream levels. Now, it's quite obvious that we are dreaming at all times, but you can be dreaming from the perspective of the outer dream assuming that the outer dream can be recalled upon awakening from the inner dream.

But that doesn't make any sense because there is no outer or inner dream, just the dream. Inception doesn't folo the rules of real dream physics and it doesn't have to because its a movie. There are many ways of time dialation but I don't think you have to have a FA to do it.

Originally Posted by MindGames

Okay, I can't let you group dream sharing with lucid dreaming. We have no reason to believe in dream sharing, since it violates the laws of physics.

Shared dreaming has definitly not been disproven and I don't see how it violate the laws of physics. Lets stay on topic.

**MindGames** · 02-15-2011 05:03 AM

Originally Posted by MadMonkey

Shared dreaming has definitly not been disproven

Neither have magical unicorn farts, but it certainly doesn't make them real.

Originally Posted by MadMonkey

But that doesn't make any sense because there is no outer or inner dream, just the dream. Inception doesn't folo the rules of real dream physics and it doesn't have to because its a movie. There are many ways of time dialation but I don't think you have to have a FA to do it.

I am speaking of dreams within dreams in the sense that you fall asleep in one dream, and enter another dream in which time is dilated, and then you wake up after some time only to pick up where you left off in the previous dream. Of course from a physical standpoint, it's just one dream, but we have to define a 'dream within a dream' in different terms since we do not have a physical body within a dream, only a dream body. The only method of experiencing a dream within a dream is to take it at face value: you go to sleep, dream for some time, then wake up into another dream and pick up a short time after you left off. This is of course a trick of the mind from a physical standpoint, but from the perspective of the dreamer it certainly did happen. You do not have to have a false awakening to make this occur, but I never said you did. Time dilation is a technique which does not require Inception-style dreams-within-dreams, but it can be used for that purpose.

**MadMonkey** · 02-15-2011 05:17 AM

Originally Posted by MindGames

I am speaking of dreams within dreams in the sense that you fall asleep in one dream, and enter another dream in which time is dilated, and then you wake up after some time only to pick up where you left off in the previous dream. Of course from a physical standpoint, it's just one dream, but we have to define a 'dream within a dream' in different terms since we do not have a physical body within a dream, only a dream body. The only method of experiencing a dream within a dream is to take it at face value: you go to sleep, dream for some time, then wake up into another dream and pick up a short time after you left off. This is of course a trick of the mind from a physical standpoint, but from the perspective of the dreamer it certainly did happen. You do not have to have a false awakening to make this occur, but I never said you did. Time dilation is a technique which does not require Inception-style dreams-within-dreams, but it can be used for that purpose.

My point is there is no reason for it to cause time dialation unless you expect that to happen and are lucid. Like a said, using inception as an archetype for your time dialation sounds like a lot of fun. The reason I wanted to point out it is not necesary is to promote people being creative in how they aproach time dialation and not believe that the fiction in Inception is necesarily true.

**MindGames** · 02-15-2011 05:25 AM

Well then. I'm glad we're on the same page here.

Using the Inception archetype is not necessary, but it is certainly possible to achieve the same thing. (Assuming time dilation is workable) If it can be achieved, it would be a lot of fun.

Also, assuming one did see Inception and decided to try the same thing, it is likely the dreamer will achieve the same effects, since the idea is already incorporated into their subconscious.

**MadMonkey** · 02-15-2011 05:31 AM

I am testing using an item like a magical hour glass (inspired by the time turner from harry potter) and playing the inverse song of time from Zelda: Majoras Mask to dialate time.

**MindGames** · 02-15-2011 05:33 AM

Wow that sounds cool. Are you going back in time or stretching time? I developed a method using an inverse black hole. Just jump straight into it. =P

**Dreamchitect** · 02-15-2011 05:35 AM

This is something that interests me immensely. Once i become lucid on a more than regular basis, it will be my main point of research and testing. Because if we can learn to stay in the dream world for long periods of time, our lives will not only improve, but have more potential than ever before. If we can get into layers one after another we can achieve so much. And with dream machines and whatnot, it is just a placebo effect. There aren't "Real" chemicals or sedatives in our minds that would do something physically. But i plan on finding a surefire method of going deeper so i can have as much dream time at night as possible.

**MindGames** · 02-15-2011 05:37 AM

Originally Posted by Dreamchitect

This is something that interests me immensely. Once i become lucid on a more than regular basis, it will be my main point of research and testing. Because if we can learn to stay in the dream world for long periods of time, our lives will not only improve, but have more potential than ever before. If we can get into layers one after another we can achieve so much. And with dream machines and whatnot, it is just a placebo effect. There aren't "Real" chemicals or sedatives in our minds that would do something physically. But i plan on finding a surefire method of going deeper so i can have as much dream time at night as possible.

You sound just like me two months ago. I still plan on doing the research, but I've been refining my WILD skills in the meantime since DILD wasn't working out too well. Tell me how your research goes.