Thread: How Often To WBTB?

I perform WBTBs on occasion, but I want to do them more frequently. If I perform them every few nights, I know I'll be fine, BUT if I perform it every night, will it mess up my sleep schedule all together?

I do them every night, unless something comes up (like a late party). Since everybody is different, you will not know until you try. You can always go back. If you do them regularly and then you leave out a day or two, you may even get a lucid out of it, something like a cycle adjustment technique CAT. Happy dreams.

Yeah don't see why you couldn't try as often as you wanted unless of course you have something scheduled over it :p

I've been doing it everyday and it's been working fine for me. I've been able to go lucid every time.

One thing I can suggest is learning how to wake up after exact amount of sleep cycles, so you don't have to wake yourself up drastically with an alarm (during REM, that is). Mantras and relaxation before sleep may help here.

Originally Posted by Duck

One thing I can suggest is learning how to wake up after exact amount of sleep cycles, so you don't have to wake yourself up drastically with an alarm (during REM, that is). Mantras and relaxation before sleep may help here.

It's actually favourable to wake during REM, that groggy feeling you get when your alarm wakes you for school/work is because you've interrupted non-REM.

The other benefit of waking from REM is it should mean an automatically recalled dream because you were just in one if you know what I mean

Personally I find that daily WBTB leads to fatigue during the day.

Originally Posted by Ctharlhie

It's actually favourable to wake during REM, that groggy feeling you get when your alarm wakes you for school/work is because you've interrupted non-REM.

The other benefit of waking from REM is it should mean an automatically recalled dream because you were just in one if you know what I mean

Personally I find that daily WBTB leads to fatigue during the day.

If you're interrupting REM, that would explain why you feel worn off during the day. REM is a stage of sleep when your brain is recovering itself from the day stress and fatigue. Waking up earlier and shortening your REM just to recall your dreams at expense of getting full sleep is, in my opinion, unfavorable.

I find that I have been conscious of several awakenings and dreams over the last few nights from force of will alone, if I was to get out of bed for 20 minutes or so would this dramatically increase my chances of becoming lucid?

Originally Posted by PolicemanFox

I find that I have been conscious of several awakenings and dreams over the last few nights from force of will alone, if I was to get out of bed for 20 minutes or so would this dramatically increase my chances of becoming lucid?

Yes, WBTB for anywhere from 5 - 60 min after at least 4.5 hours of sleep greatly increases your chances of becoming lucid. You have to experiment for how long you stay up - you should be able to think clearly, but still sleepy enough to fall asleep without any problems. Happy dreams

Forgot to say - you have to get up from bed and wake up your logical part of brain - do some lucid dreaming related stuff - go on DV, read your DJ, daydream about your lucids, make a plan what you want to dream about next, some math problems...

Originally Posted by PolicemanFox

...if I was to get out of bed for 20 minutes or so would this dramatically increase my chances of becoming lucid?

You have to discover what works for you. I personally would never wait 20 minutes ( or even 2 minutes ) . I try to immediately return to dreamland on WBTB attempts... but that is just me.

Originally Posted by faceonmars

You have to discover what works for you. I personally would never wait 20 minutes ( or even 2 minutes ) . I try to immediately return to dreamland on WBTB attempts... but that is just me.

I find that WBTBs longer than 20 minutes wake me to the point that it takes an annoyingly long time to return to sleep.

If you're interrupting REM, that would explain why you feel worn off during the day. REM is a stage of sleep when your brain is recovering itself from the day stress and fatigue. Waking up earlier and shortening your REM just to recall your dreams at expense of getting full sleep is, in my opinion, unfavorable.

Again I'll say it is favourable to interrupt REM as it is at the end of the 90 minute sleep cycle after which natural brief awakenings occur anyway. Waking during N-REM leads to feelings of grogginess and fatigue as your brain has been brought from very low levels of activity into full wakefulness very suddenly. If I wake during Non-REM I typically say 'fuck this' and go straight back to sleep without thinking of LDing.
I set my WBTB alarm for 4am because for me I know I'm always in the middle of REM at that point, I wake ready to lucid dream and when I return to sleep I go straight back to dreaming in REM sleep with plenty of the cycle left to lucid dream in.

Many thanks gab, I've had lucid dreaming experience before but trying to get back into it again.

I find that the state you enter in a WILD WBTB still counts as refreshing sleep. Try to bring your mind to an aware state quickly, say five minutes. It seems to me that the time you are up is the only big interuption in your sleep. If you are doing it correctly you are actually asleep during most of the attempt, just aware.
A yogi trick I used to play with is getting needed rest in a meditative state, but not actually loosing awareness at any point. I am not claiming I could sustain that beyond a couple days, but you should be getting rest even during a WBTB attempt. I often even attempt four or more times in a night, and still feel well rested.

Originally Posted by sivason

Try to bring your mind to an aware state quickly, say five minutes.

How do you do that? I love the effect of WBTB, but usually have to stay up for 30 - 60 min to feel 'right' for a WILD. Wouldn't mind staying up for shorter time, that's for sure

Originally Posted by gab

How do you do that? I love the effect of WBTB, but usually have to stay up for 30 - 60 min to feel 'right' for a WILD. Wouldn't mind staying up for shorter time, that's for sure

Look into the meditative skill called 'centering' if youu get good at it it should not take long at all. One trick i use is to place my thumb and forefinger on thebridge of my nose, then feel as if you have grabbed hold of a thread of energy from the third eye chakra. Look cross eyed at the point they touch on your nose. Watch it very intensely and start very slowly drawing your conciousness forward by slowly pulling the energy from the third eye out of your head. Slowly actually move your pinched together thumb and fore finger a few inches out from your face. Intensely track the movement with your eyes, until they reach the first point where you no longer have to be cross eyed.
You are taking your awareness from a un-focused (cross-eyed) point and following it into an intensely focused place. This is just one example, but the meditative skill is refered to as centering and the inter-net probably has at least a dozen more good examples if you look into it.

If I wake during Non-REM I typically say 'fuck this' and go straight back to sleep without thinking of LDing.

Pretty much happened to me last night, but then rather annoyingly I couldn't get back to sleep for like an hour. Sounds like it takes some trial and error to work out your cycles. Please could I ask which method you found the most effective in determining them?

A hypnogram gives you the basic timings for your REM cycles, from there it's trial and error
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._Hypnogram.svg

Thanks, I'll check it out.