Thread: What is reality?

iv been asking my self this question alot recently and want to know what other people think.

So first i ask my self, what is reality? then i reach conclusion that is what im expriencing with my 5 senses, its not possible to come up with any other answer.

how are 5 senses recognised? (Touch, Taste, Smell, See and Hear)

when you use any of your senses, you recognise it via electronical signals in your brain which deliver that message to let you know what has happened. e.g you see when there is light present, and the light particles bounce of diffrent objects and spready in all possible directions, and you view the object from your point of view, where your eyes (same as camera lens) picks up the light particles sends it through to the back of the eye, which translates it to a electronical signal which travels tot he back of your brain and a picture is formed in your head. same with all other senses. people who cant see or feel or use theire senses means there is a problem somewhere in this process.

so this is where it gets intresting for me.

when your in a dream all those senses are active and work the same way. You Feel, you See, you Hear, you Taste and you Smell.

So then i think all i know is i came out of another persons body (mother) and im led to believe the only reality is what those 5 senses tell me in this form of reality which we call the "real reality".

So if the method i use to vertify "reality" is also valid when im "dreaming" then based on what can i saw whats dreaming and whats real, you thats reading this now could be a DC in my world.

Have you ever tried to explain to a DC in your dream that they are a DC in your dream? they act like your some crazy idiot or sometimes may not, exactly the same as if you walk to random people and tell them the dont really exist and they are in your imagination.

when you get familiar with various "conspiracy theories" secret societies and their agenda etc, you realise they have designed society in a way to make you believe that this is real and your dreams are just dreams. why have i seen many future events in my dream, with other family members with the same exprience and proberly many of you? So then i think there obviously is more to all this then what im led to believe.

have you noticed how diffrent food/drinks enhance your dreams/recall so what is there is our food that does the opposite? meat? salts? other chemicals and ingridients?

in todays world you barely even get a chance to explore and experiment, if the dodgy food we eat doesnt stop you, your career and other responsibilities which are meaningless will as that will occupy a great deal of your mind, concidering that society is designed where your livelihood revolves around "money" and nothing els, and to get money you have to dedicate your mind/time, both which are essential to exploring your true reality/self.

so anyway getting back to specifics, then i learned about my brain and how it works. your brain operates on Hz ranging from 0.1-20hz, right now depending on how relaxed or excited you are you could be anywhere between 16-20hz, when your dreaming or in deep sleep you could be anywhere between 0.1 to 4 hz. So is it fair to say the reality you exprience is based on what Hz your brain is operating on? can you imagine why on a higher frequency everything will seem more solid/heavy and on lower frequencies you can flot around, fly and nothing is really solid? keeping in mind that even right now there is nothing that is solid, since everything is made up of atoms, and atoms are mde of electrons, and electrons are made of quartz, which are 99% empty space (conciousness) which is what scientist say empty space in space is made of, and its this frequencies which hold them togethor regardless of in which reality your expriencing.

now i completly undrestand many people might think im crazy, but society is organised this way so if you believe the real truth your crazy, and everything i have said you can vertify your self and research your self as it is all based on facts.

so tell me what yous think

Reality is whatever you perceive it to be.

I think it's an interesting discussion, and I've been pondering about it for a while myself - At least to the extend of how we differentiate what is real when we look at dreams and then the world we conventionally call reality, our life when we are not asleep -, though I am not any kind of great philosopher But perhaps you can find a use for some of the things I say, anyways.

And just to be clear, my thoughts are given from the presumption that reality is understood as what we conventionally say is the world we live in when we are awake and not dreaming. Then, what is not reality, or real, is understood to be when we are dreaming, as when people say "well at least it was all just a dream, none of it was real".

I've also had great inspiration from the book "Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming - By Stephen LaBerge".

So first i ask my self, what is reality? then i reach conclusion that is what im expriencing with my 5 senses, its not possible to come up with any other answer.

Then perhaps it can help to see it from this perspective.

First of all, when I say to be aware, I mean to be aware of the environment around you, which includes, as you already mentioned, our five senses. How we perceive the world around us is, as far as I can tell, a sum of all our senses.

From what I understand, to be aware can not be used as a way of telling or dictate what we conventionally know as real or reality (the world we perceive while not sleeping) from not real (our dreams and dream world). This is because of what you already stated. Our senses can deceive us (during dreaming, our brain is activated in such a way that it treats dreams as actually being [i]real[i], which is why they can appear so much like our life when not sleeping)

When awake, we use our senses just as we do when we are in a dream, and especially a lucid dream. The only difference between what we perceive is our environment, or the world in which we are in at the time.

The world you live in when you are awake is external to you, it is independent of your mind. It remains stable no matter what actions you perform. Your dream world on the other hand, is internal, it is dependent on your mind.

For example, in a lucid dream you can read a sentence in a book, then look away and back to the book again, and the sentence can have changed completely. While you are awake, I can pretty well guarantee that has not happened to you. In your dream worlds, entire surroundings might change as well based purely of how you want it to look like. The point is, your dream world is build up by your own mind and does not seem to be continuous; it stops when you do not sleep any longer. On the other hand, the world we live in while not sleeping appears pretty stable with no influence by our minds, it exists independently of us.

So what I have been able to come up with so far is that one of the things that can constitute reality is the world which is not created by our minds, but the world which we seem to be a part of. I suppose that's one of the reasons dreams seems to be so exciting for us, because we can suddenly control a world ourselves, and we are not bounded or limited by anything that is real (like the laws of physics, or the consequences of committing a crime and so forth), because when as soon as we awake from the dream, it is all gone, and you are back in the reality, which seems ever so persistent and out of your control. You are a living part of it, it is not a living part of you.

So all in all I find that to be a practical way of justifying what reality is supposed to mean, and what it means not to be real. I suppose you could also say that reality is whatever you want it to be or appear, but then I guess the word loses its usefulness anyways, and so there is not much point in discussing it.

I think reality is a word that can't be fully explained. This is cause one person will see it as this, and the other person will see it as that.... There is probably more then one good answer for this question. While at the same time we all have a basic agreement on what it roughly means.

Some people will say that dreams are not part of reality, others will say they are. It all just depends what reality means to you. The word "reality" has a lot of different layers attached to it, and dreaming is one of those. It's up to you what "layers" fit with your definition of reality. Hope this makes sense in a way..

Originally Posted by SomeDreamer

The world you live in when you are awake is external to you, it is independent of your mind. It remains stable no matter what actions you perform. Your dream world on the other hand, is internal, it is dependent on your mind.

But based on what do you say the world we live in now is external to us, as everything you see "externally" are only repsentations of electrical signals in your brain???

you dont see with your eyes, you see in your mind, your eyes only collect light particles which get translated to electrical signals which your brain converts it to images. So if they take out your brain and hook it up to a computer feeding it pictures via electrical signals, as far as you know your alive and expriencing the real world..so i think you should concider that before you confirm to your self that the world is external.

also remember some of the best thinkers such as einstein and etc said the world is just your imagination which fits in with quantum physics and law of viberation[/QUOTE]

the key think you need to undrestand is that there is no such thing as solid, thats an illusion, this is according to the physics, as atom have no matter

this is why iv reached the conclusions that i have as iv taken all that into concieration

Originally Posted by Ekyu

I think reality is a word that can't be fully explained. This is cause one person will see it as this, and the other person will see it as that.... There is probably more then one good answer for this question. While at the same time we all have a basic agreement on what it roughly means.

Some people will say that dreams are not part of reality, others will say they are. It all just depends what reality means to you. The word "reality" has a lot of different layers attached to it, and dreaming is one of those. It's up to you what "layers" fit with your definition of reality. Hope this makes sense in a way..

i agree how people have their own opinions, but you can say that about evrything, what matters is that how much fact it is based on. thats how i look at it. there is alot we dont know, but if we use the latest information we have confirmed then we would proberly be closer.

as atom have no matter

Hmm I'm not quite sure what you mean by this, or what kind of matter that you mean or refer to. In physics atoms are defined as a basic unit of matter. This is because atoms have mass (the more mass an object has, the bigger its inertia gets, that is, it will require more energy to make it move) and they take up space, though very little individually. They are basic units of matter because they make up the different pure elements of matter which we currently know, all shown in the periodic table. Anything that takes up space and has mass is matter, which atoms do, although individually very little, but collected into bigger structures such as the keyboard in front of you, a little more substantial. I'm not an expert in physics, but I do know that to say an atom has no matter is not correct. So I'm not quite sure I understand your argument.

I think, as Ekyu said, we are talking about two different meanings of what reality is supposed to mean. I'm not quite sure I understand the point you're trying to get across

Originally Posted by SomeDreamer

Hmm I'm not quite sure what you mean by this, or what kind of matter that you mean or refer to. In physics atoms are defined as a basic unit of matter. This is because atoms have mass

matter is made up of atoms, atoms contain electrons etc and electrons are made up of quartz. An atom is 99% empty space. and slowly scientist discovering quartz are made up of even smaller particles.

The Space Between Atoms - YouTube

this is one example i can show you 100s more from other physisist and even give you quotes from famouse people like einstein and newton etc

im actually not sure where you got your information from dont mean it in a bad way


you need to undrestand what atoms are made up of to understand my argument, start researching Quantum Mechanics

That's what I'm beginning to wonder... what really *is* the difference between reality and the dream world as far as our senses are concerned, if there is any at all? I'm beginning to think, there isn't any.

Originally Posted by Mindraker

That's what I'm beginning to wonder... what really *is* the difference between reality and the dream world as far as our senses are concerned, if there is any at all? I'm beginning to think, there isn't any.

If we are just talking about senses, probably nothing. Although in dreams senses seem to be to quite low compared to waking life, or at times even higher then waking life. It quite rare to be in a dreamstate that feels the same as waking life, if u understand what i mean? (taking into account your not drunk or on drugs)

Originally Posted by Ekyu

It quite rare to be in a dreamstate that feels the same as waking life, if u understand what i mean? (taking into account your not drunk or on drugs)

well if it was rare then it would be rare not to have a lucid dream, as you would always immidietly notice your dreaming. the reasone why its difficult to have LD is because you believe your dream is real life, and only when you notice its not you become lucid

Originally Posted by Mrsf0011

well if it was rare then it would be rare not to have a lucid dream, as you would always immidietly notice your dreaming. the reasone why its difficult to have LD is because you believe your dream is real life, and only when you notice its not you become lucid

I can't speak for everybody, but my non lucid dreams tend to feel strange. I always thought the reason why it's so hard to become lucid for most people, is because the logic part of your brain is shutdown. You just have a sense of going with the flow, but again i can't speak for everybody.

Originally Posted by Ekyu

I can't speak for everybody, but my non lucid dreams tend to feel strange. I always thought the reason why it's so hard to become lucid for most people, is because the logic part of your brain is shutdown. You just have a sense of going with the flow, but again i can't speak for everybody.

your right about the logic part of your brain bieng off, thats why you cant reason you accept what you see as reality and believe it is ur "real" life now regardless of how strange it feels, life can also feel strange at times cant it but you reason and find some sort of explination for it.its hard for me to use dream life and real life in the traditional way because im having difficulty believing that your dream is not real life.

Originally Posted by Mindraker

That's what I'm beginning to wonder... what really *is* the difference between reality and the dream world as far as our senses are concerned, if there is any at all? I'm beginning to think, there isn't any.

thats when i think these secret societies have information we dont, which would explain how the pyramids etc were built and other people with unimaginable phsycic power. If you can do all the crazy things in your dream you should be able to do it here, matter of knowing how. just because we dont know we cant assume its imposible, as i dont believe in imposibility. I believe if you can imagine it it has to be possible.

remember when you didnt know what lucid dream was, you kept going through your dream just like if it was your "real" life, it happens even know. But when you realise your dreaming you become lucid. the key word there is "realise". when your lucid your mind can do whatever it can imagine and believe it can do. If you pay attention right at the moment when you become lucid you feel a sudden rush of energy in you, and we know your body has energy fields (chakras) and i know the Pineal gland plays a importnt part. So there must be a way to activate that now giving you all sorts of phsycic powers and abilities. due to the diffrent frequency we have now where everything seems more solid and stable there may be limitations im not sure.

but for 1000s of years there has been "myth" and stories of people bieng able to transport them self from one location to other and other crazy things, now i dont know if that is true or not, but how do you know what sort of knowledge other people have that you dont. Iv sort of learnt ways of predicting future information from my dreams and i know there are people out there who have the ability and good at it as they have won the lotto several times, iv been given future information several times in my dreams. and i bet thats just scratching the surface.

i think were tricked to believe this is the only reality with the limitations were led to believe, as the rulers of the world, secret societies, freemasons etc the last thing they want is 6..5 billion people having the same knowledge

im actually not sure where you got your information from dont mean it in a bad way

Matter:
Matter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Matter is anything that occupies space and has rest mass (or invariant mass).

Atoms:
Atom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The atom is a basic unit of matter

Matter is defined as something which occupies space and has mass.

An atom is 99% empty space

Yes, I know the fact that most of an atom is empty space, though it still does take up space and it still does have mass.

If atoms did not possess mass, that would (by definition) mean that nothing in our world took up space and that nothing had mass, thus you would have a total sum of nothing. This would also mean that big and heavy objects like Earth would not have any kind of gravitational effect.

So I'm not really sure where you are getting at, at all.

Originally Posted by SomeDreamer

Matter is defined as something which occupies space and has mass..

you think it takes up space because like i said what you see are only repsentations of electronical signals in your brain.

Originally Posted by SomeDreamer

Yes, I know the fact that most of an atom is empty space, though it still does take up space and it still does have mass...

well most is actually 99% as far as we know, and if you believe this than your contradicting your self. If your bed is 99% empty space how do you sit on it?

Originally Posted by SomeDreamer

If atoms did not possess mass, that would (by definition) mean that nothing in our world took up space and that nothing had mass, thus you would have a total sum of nothing
So I'm not really sure where you are getting at, at all.

thats why people like einstein and many other leading physisit reached a conclusion that what you concider to be reality is an illusion, they took the facts into concideration

you only see images nothing els, you can see in 3D, and these images can only be seen in your brains electronic field.

havnt you found it odd how you see light or the sun in your dream? where does light come from in your head as there isnt a globe inside of your head is there?

the reasone why its difficult to have LD is because you believe your dream is real life, and only when you notice its not you become lucid

That's one of the fun parts of dreams and dream logic in general I think It's always fun to wake up and go through your dream only to realize what crazy explanations and logic you came up with and used during your ordinary dream When you in your awakened life go "It's so obvious that it was a dream! Why didn't I notice?", yet in your dream it was all perfectly logical. It is as if your mind feeds these explanations to you in order to keep you from realizing the fact that you are in a dream. Fun stuff.

Originally Posted by SomeDreamer

That's one of the fun parts of dreams and dream logic in general I think It's always fun to wake up and go through your dream only to realize what crazy explanations and logic you came up with and used during your ordinary dream When you in your awakened life go "It's so obvious that it was a dream! Why didn't I notice?", yet in your dream it was all perfectly logical. It is as if your mind feeds these explanations to you in order to keep you from realizing the fact that you are in a dream. Fun stuff.

i agree, very interesting stuff its always on my mind.

If your bed is 99% empty space how do you sit on it?

Ah yes, one of the things which I was also thinking about when I at first discovered that atoms are mostly empty space. One analogy which I found to be pretty good is that in solids, atoms are first of all very close together and dense, kind of stringed together in a pattern which makes them resistance to change in shape. But the electrons of the atoms move around very quickly (I know that electrons do not move in pretty circles around the nucleus of atoms, but that they occupy a space around the nucleus called the orbital, which is a zone calculated using probability, that is, where the electron is most likely to appear at any given time). If you look at a fan (like one you use to push air towards you in a warm room) which is turned off it, it has some blades used to push the air, but most of the space around it is actually empty, you can push your arm or finger through the blades. But when the fan is turned on, the blades move so quickly that you can't really push anything through them (and it might hurt a lot to try and do so ). When you push your finger down onto the table and try to push it through, the reason it can't move through it is because the electrons in your finger and the electrons in the table rebel each other with such a strong force that you are unable to penetrate it.

But if you look at it from this perspective, I do agree that something like the perception of touch is kind of an illusion in the sense that nothing might actually touch each other, but that touch is the feeling you get from the electrical signals send through your nervous system from your finger when these repelling forces of the electrons meet, but that your finger does not literally touch anything when it comes down on the table, the force you experience is not literal touch, but repulsion from electrons. Is this what you mean when talking about illusion?

If you look at perception like this, I would think that is why you reached the conclusion that reality is whatever you can experience using your five senses? So for example, if you experience pain in a dream, who is to say it's not as real as it would have been in waking life, since the two would have been perceived in exactly the same way; ultimately nothing but electrical signals. In this case, reality would have the meaning of being everything you can sense.

And in that case, I do understand your point, and the reason why we had a disagreement was simply because I defined reality through other means, that is, not perception, but more of the fact that our wakening world seems to be permanent, while our dream worlds do not (which is why people like to try committing crimes in a dream, but not in our wakening life).

Originally Posted by SomeDreamer

Ah yes, one of the things which I was also thinking about when I at first discovered that atoms are mostly empty space. One analogy which I found to be pretty good is that in solids, atoms are first of all very close together and dense, kind of stringed together in a pattern which makes them resistance to change in shape. But the electrons of the atoms move around very quickly (I know that electrons do not move in pretty circles around the nucleus of atoms, but that they occupy a space around the nucleus called the orbital, which is a zone calculated using probability, that is, where the electron is most likely to appear at any given time). If you look at a fan (like one you use to push air towards you in a warm room) which is turned off it, it has some blades used to push the air, but most of the space around it is actually empty, you can push your arm or finger through the blades. But when the fan is turned on, the blades move so quickly that you can't really push anything through them (and it might hurt a lot to try and do so ). When you push your finger down onto the table and try to push it through, the reason it can't move through it is because the electrons in your finger and the electrons in the table rebel each other with such a strong force that you are unable to penetrate it.

But if you look at it from this perspective, I do agree that something like the perception of touch is kind of an illusion in the sense that nothing might actually touch each other, but that touch is the feeling you get from the electrical signals send through your nervous system from your finger when these repelling forces of the electrons meet, but that your finger does not literally touch anything when it comes down on the table, the force you experience is not literal touch, but repulsion from electrons. Is this what you mean when talking about illusion?

If you look at perception like this, I would think that is why you reached the conclusion that reality is whatever you can experience using your five senses? So for example, if you experience pain in a dream, who is to say it's not as real as it would have been in waking life, since the two would have been perceived in exactly the same way; ultimately nothing but electrical signals. In this case, reality would have the meaning of being everything you can sense.

And in that case, I do understand your point, and the reason why we had a disagreement was simply because I defined reality through other means, that is, not perception, but more of the fact that our wakening world seems to be permanent, while our dream worlds do not (which is why people like to try committing crimes in a dream, but not in our wakening life).

yes your spot on with everything you said

i dont believe in anything bieng solid, something that is truly solid would impenetrable, it means it cant be made up of atoms. also if you can only sit on something thats solid then how do you sit on a chair in your dream or wlak on ground?

i think everything that we see and think it exists are in the same electromagnetic field and in communication with it, and this electromagnetic field which covers the entire universe is what god is, because its what we live in and its what governs us and all the laws are based on its laws.

so all the famous people talk about multi dimentional realities, i believe we exist in all these dimentions simultaneously and depending on which Hz (frequency) you are in that is the dimension/reality you exprience which has its own laws etc. right now were on the frequency of 16-20hz, if you take your frequency down to 4hz then what you exprience as reality is diffrent, you may have diffrent abilities etc. As in right now its harder to make a bed dissapear because its electro magnetic field is alot more powerful being at a higher frequency, but the same bed you can make dissapear if your operating at 1-4hz.

mind dazzeling stuff

but what im trying to get at is, if these things are true then there is no doubt people at top who rule the world have special knowledge about this reality that we dont, and i intend to find out

why cant we become lucid now, before you learnt lucid in your dream, it was like now, when you became lucid then your abilities were activated, thats what im trying to get at really

Of course our reality is not real, but it is the most stable thing we have.

Originally Posted by Robot_Butler

Of course our reality is not real, but it is the most stable thing we have.

Fuck.

Energy is key... Intentions, thought, and will. This is how our reality works. You cannot define reality accurately in words, but we all feel that there is more than meets the eye, hand, nose, tongue, and ears...

I would like to know how to wlak on anything...

Are we talking subjective reality or objective reality? Either way there is no absolute proof of eithers existence or nonexistance. We assume external reality is dictating our waking experience. And we assume internal reality is dictating our dreaming experience.

Reality is what ever is most relavent, subjectively and objectively. There is no definative reality that we all may or may not be apart of. What is real is what ever we pretend to be real. Scientist and mathematicians make logical assumptions that start with premises that are just thought and treated as true, but have not been definitively proven. Religious institutions have beliefs ( premises just being treated as true). Everyone, whether we have the same view of reality or each have infinitely varying views of reality, are ALL just pretending.

However a simpler answer:

We will never know whether there is or is not a real reality or what it exactly is. so just pretend and dream on, while awake and asleep



As for the talk of solids. Technically speaking solids manifest what the laymen experiences as "solid" due to atomic structure. The reason your elbow won't go through the desk it sits on is because of the atomic lattice of elbow and desk. The negatively charged electrons on the outside of your elbow repel against the same charged electrons of he desk. Due to electromagnetism, the generally perceived phenomenon of solidity is manifested. In other words certain types of Matter cannot penetrate without breaking certain types of matter.

But that's only if you pretend all that sciencey mombo jumbo hahahaha