Thread: What makes a LD vividly realistic?

Originally Posted by Ctharlhie

What a great idea, summoning detail! Think about it, everything in a dream requires attention to exist. We've essentialised this 'dream state' that can be more, or less, 'realistic', but really how is detail any different to the nightmarish monster pursuing you? Both will vanish if you stop paying attention, both are simply objects of attention. These objects do not have an independent existence, all are products of expectations based on mental schema; sometimes photorealistic, sometimes videogamy, sometimes cartoony - there's no 'natural' or 'absolute' dream state, only attention fueled schemata.

Increased awareness leads to greater attention leads to greater memory, this is the principle of ADA and why it benefits recall so much as well as LD induction.

Yes, but I'd say that objects and places in dreams don't 'require' attention to exist. Think about it, when you open a dream door and a whole new place appears, you did not focus on any of it, maybe not even the possibility of that setting at all! The subconscious still has a big part in generating the dream objects and places, and that is what makes me think about dream vividness not only being about memory, but also how much detail we and our subconscious generate to it, though my only defense for this is the fact that the dream becomes HD and more detailed often when we stabilize or will it to, but again, it might just be extra detail summoning, wait, which is what vividness essencially is, right? The dream is more vivid because of more details. So this means that regular dreams, can be more vivid, not just because we remembered them better (due to gab between dream and waking, and also awareness and brain chemistry that effect memory stirring), but also because our subconscious integrated more details to it!
So there is different vividness to regular and lucid dreams, it is how much details we and our subconscious integrate to the dream, other than the memory storing.
Also ppl think that because a dream was vivid, they remembered it better, but it is the opposite. Because they remembered the dream better, it was vivid (since they remembered more details). This is a defense to the memory part of dream vividness (which I totally support), and I'm still ready to debate the details part being the second factor of dream vividness. I mean, it must be, it makes perfect sense that other than the memory, how much details are incorporated to the dream increase it's vividness! I don't mean it awareness wise, but actual dream content.

On a side note, ADA may increase our focus and thus details to dreams, but induction wise, extra details don't help in becoming lucid, because we already do notice the monsters and irrational things in our non lucid dreams, but the problem is our semantic memory that fails to remind us that these things aren't normal. So, ADA doesn't fix that, thus not much effect in induction as to that particular point.

Originally Posted by LouaiB

Yes, but I'd say that objects and places in dreams don't 'require' attention to exist. Think about it, when you open a dream door and a whole new place appears, you did not focus on any of it, maybe not even the possibility of that setting at all! The subconscious still has a big part in generating the dream objects and places, and that is what makes me think about dream vividness not only being about memory, but also how much detail we and our subconscious generate to it, though my only defense for this is the fact that the dream becomes HD and more detailed often when we stabilize or will it to, but again, it might just be extra detail summoning, wait, which is what vividness essencially is, right? The dream is more vivid because of more details. So this means that regular dreams, can be more vivid, not just because we remembered them better (due to gab between dream and waking, and also awareness and brain chemistry that effect memory stirring), but also because our subconscious integrated more details to it!
So there is different vividness to regular and lucid dreams, it is how much details we and our subconscious integrate to the dream, other than the memory storing.
Also ppl think that because a dream was vivid, they remembered it better, but it is the opposite. Because they remembered the dream better, it was vivid (since they remembered more details). This is a defense to the memory part of dream vividness (which I totally support), and I'm still ready to debate the details part being the second factor of dream vividness. I mean, it must be, it makes perfect sense that other than the memory, how much details are incorporated to the dream increase it's vividness! I don't mean it awareness wise, but actual dream content.

On a side note, ADA may increase our focus and thus details to dreams, but induction wise, extra details don't help in becoming lucid, because we already do notice the monsters and irrational things in our non lucid dreams, but the problem is our semantic memory that fails to remind us that these things aren't normal. So, ADA doesn't fix that, thus not much effect in induction as to that particular point.

For the sake of clarity, when I'm saying attention, expectation, etc., I'm referring to their usage by The Cusp in this thread: http://www.dreamviews.com/dream-cont...m-control.html

This is where things get theoretical. You're in a room in a dream, what is outside that room? The walls of your skull. We don't make any physical movements, it would be more accurate to say that the dream moves around our point of attention.

When you open the door you have shifted your attention to a new environ, which could be anything. Think of your attention as an empty space that is filled in by your unconscious but is nonetheless constitutive of that very filling-in. Afterall, there wouldn't be a dream without you there to witness it. Attention can be thought of as empty, non-physical dreamspace.

I'm not a big fan of the term stabilisation, because it implies a duality between dreamer and dream. When we stabilise, really we focus our awareness by attending to the sensory immersion of the dream as opposed to the sensory immersion of our waking life bodies.