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    Thread: Getting over belief problems

    1. #1
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      Getting over belief problems

      Hope this isn't a stupid question, maybe someone can relate. I have never had my first lucid dream yet, as I find awareness absolutely impossible to adhere to.

      But I wonder if that's not all. I think a small part of me is afraid of just what that first moment of lucidity would look like. Here's the real problem.
      I can't quite accept the fact that lucidity is possible for me. I think about this incredible, limitless dreamworld. How I can do what I want, possibly talk to the subconscious, and just explore.

      A world with no consequences? It just seems too good to be true. I don't know how I can convince myself that I can lucid dream, and that it really isn't too good to be true, that I deserve that first glimpse of lucidity. Mantras for confidence?

      In short, I can't imagine getting my first lucid dream until I'm able to accept the fact that lucid dreaming is achievable and that I deserve it.

      Can anyone relate to this? Also, every technique just seems so difficult. Daytime awareness seems to be the most direct route to lucidity, but it is so hard to maintain.

      I like the idea of autosuggestion before bed, but I can't seem to focus or have enough confidence that it'll work.

      Thanks in advance for any responses.

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      First of all. I dont think you asked a stupid question, I think it was a very good one since it seems very sincere.

      So here is my overall take on your problem.

      I think that you built up to high expectations about lucid dreaming, and are therefore afraid to pursue the goal of trying to get lucidity, incase if it cant live up to what you want or wish it to be like. You dont need to worry about if you deserve lucidity or not, it is not attained based on what you believe about it or yourself. But lucidity is a mere result of your level of awareness. So no need to take it personally at all.

      I can't imagine getting my first lucid dream until I'm able to accept the fact that lucid dreaming is achievable and that I deserve it.
      This is a catch-22 situation. You need to realize that you cant imagine your first lucid dream until you actually have been in it. So give up the idea about if you deserve it or not, it wont do anything else than frustrate you further if that's not what you need.

      Before I can actually come up with any relevant advice at all, then I have to ask you. Why do you want to have a lucid dream and how much do you want it?
      You are not your thoughts...

    3. #3
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      Well, for the most part, I want to use lucidity as an escape from real life, though I don't think that's a good reason to become lucid. I hate the stress and worries that accompany waking life, but I can't really do much to make that better.

      The problem I've had in the past is doing 100 reality checks a day for several days, then getting exhausted and quitting. It's just impossible to stay aware. I actually like the idea of relaxation and self hypnosis to induce lucidity, but I have no experience with that.

      What I really need is confidence I think. Just to believe that lucidity is actually possible and not unrealistic.

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      Sorry to hear about your struggle.

      I think you may have over complicated the matter in your mind, do not bother too much with the theoretical implications of Lucid dreaming at this point. Of course you can have a lucid dream, you have all the hardware needed already in your head.

      Building new habits or neural pathways takes dedication, it comes down to simply practising some basic techniques over a period of time. If you are doing the methods you are making progress even if it not immediately obvious, changes must occur because every action has a reaction, especially in the brain.

      On the point of using Lucid dreaming as a escape, this is reasonable but not ideal in my opinion. Lucid dreaming is best used as a general life enhancer, sadly one cannot just crawl into a hole in the ground and lucid dream ones life away, as desirable as this may be, one must still deal with the burden of a physical body. Reasonably Lucid dreaming will only take up a fraction of ones time, maybe 30 minutes or a few hours a day at best, then the question becomes how does one make the other 90% of ones life better. So yes lucid dreaming is a great escape from daily life, it is a wonderful way to spend ones time, but do not neglect those other factors of life or put all your eggs in one basket.
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      "Parable.- Those thinkers in whom all stars move in cyclic orbits are not the most profound: whoever looks into himself as into vast space and carries galaxies in himself also knows how irregular all galaxies are; they lead into the chaos and labyrinth of existence."- Friedrich Nietzsche, the gay science, First published in 1882 revised in 1887, translated by Walter Kaufmann [/SIGPIC]

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      You're response is brilliant, Valis1. The problem is that I know all this stuff, but it's hard to just fake the confidence thing. How can I really believe that I'm able to achieve lucidity? I think it's hard to make myself feel like I deserve becoming lucid since I have such a low self esteem. Yeah, it's a problem for sure.

      No, lucid dreaming is not a replacement for waking life, and that's unfortunate.

      But hey, maybe someone will find this thread useful and it's not a total waste. Again, thanks Valis1, and anyone else who cares to weigh in.

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      To give you my honest opinion. To use lucidity as an escape from life might be very counter productive. And here is why: If you have to many worries in your daily life, then that means that you are even more in your mind than you are aware of your mind. By being aware of our mind, is to take a step back from thoughts and see things from a more clear perspective and thereby becoming more aware of our surrounding as it is. I also think that you would be able to get more out of lucid dreaming if you already feel good in general before pursuing such thing.

      Now I dont want to discourage you to pursue lucid dreaming because it is stil possible, and do not only have to do with confidence even if that is an great aid. But as you said yourself, do I deserve becoming lucid? To like or love the process of getting lucid is in my experience the best way to know if one is deserved of lucidity(it tastes sweeter that way). And doing 100 reality checks is exhausting for any one. My best advice for you to get lucid, is to first deal with your stress and worries in your life. So you can create some comfortable space in your real life first, for you to be able to work from. With all this said, awareness is not only limited to lucid dreaming but to all aspects of life.
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      You are not your thoughts...

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      Learning that lucidity isn't possible doesn't bode well for lucidity. The more you expect a learned inability to become lucid during a dream, the more likely you will reject evidence to the contrary during a dream. I think you've fallen into this trap and need to get out.

      In order to lucid dream, you have to identify the dream as such while its happening. You can do this.

      You can identify dreams as such. You do this after you wake up.

      You can also do this while dreaming because during a dream you still have the sensory awareness and access to conscious knowledge (memory) you need to do so. If you didn't have sensory awareness you would be able to recall any dreams. If you didn't have memory you wouldn't be able to correctly identify anything during the dream. Because of this, lucidity is always a possibility, no matter how hopeless it may seem.

      Speaking of knowledge, you should be trying to learn how dreams are different from waking life so that you can tell the difference between the two. For example, you have learned that when a reality check fails during a dream you are dreaming. But you should be learning a lot more ways dreams are different from waking life so you have more chances for success. You could learn from dreams you already have. For example, if you wake up from a non-lucid dream about a DC telling you you're dreaming, tell yourself "When a DC tells me I'm dreaming, I'm dreaming. Next time this happens I'll become lucid." Learn that certain things only happen during dreams, that way when those things happen again, you will expect to be dreaming because you always expect what you've learned to be true.
      Last edited by dolphin; 09-25-2016 at 06:42 AM.
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      Thanks for all the help, but I also think there's still some fear left. I guess just fear of the unknown first lucid dream. I realize that I can just expect happy thoughts and that it's all a creation of my mind anyway, but I don't know.

      I don't think anxiety and lucidity mesh very well. I think a part of me doesn't want lucidity because of fear.
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      Are you afraid the dream will turn into a nightmare as soon as you become lucid?

      If the root of your fear is nightmares, know that lucidity is a best thing to have when it comes to nightmares because you know you're dreaming and therefore safe. Lucidity makes this possible because you know the nightmare is one while it's happening.

      I think having an optimistic mindset is the best way to handle nightmares. Rather than thinking whatever is happening during a nightmare is trying to hurt you, try to think of it as trying to help you. Welcome the nightmare rather than fear it. Once you stop perceiving the nightmare as frightening or unpleasant, it is no longer a nightmare.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Mgc88 View Post
      Thanks for all the help, but I also think there's still some fear left. I guess just fear of the unknown first lucid dream. I realize that I can just expect happy thoughts and that it's all a creation of my mind anyway, but I don't know.

      I don't think anxiety and lucidity mesh very well. I think a part of me doesn't want lucidity because of fear.
      I think you are right of the most part. It's true that thoughts are a creation of mind, but it's hard to expect happy thoughts when we dont choose our thoughts. And anxiety and fear does come to us on their own terms. This does not mean that they cant be tranceded though.. The fear need to be located before it can be desolved.
      You are not your thoughts...

    11. #11
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      Hey Mgc88, I see that you have a DV join date of May 2012. What have you been doing the last 4 years? I only ask because I'm curious as to what you have already tried. Four years is a long time to have no success.
      A lot of good answers already. I would only add, you seem to have a fear of the unknown. That's completely normal, but sometimes you just have to be a little reckless and try things for the experience. If you have done plenty of reading about lucid dreaming you will have found out that the risk of harm is pretty well zero. This is NOT something to be afraid of. It is very unlikely that you will suddenly switch on the ability to LD and then not be able to turn it off, so when you do have your first LD you can always stop if you don't like it (try anything once mentality).
      In any case, the first steps are to write a DJ and improve your dream recall. Are you doing that?
      As others have said, thinking of LD as an escape is unlikely to work. You really need to be "in-tune" with your waking life to successfully LD.
      Hope that helps.
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      First off, I do keep a dream journal and it's a habit by this point.

      You raise a good question, Goldenspark. I have been interested in lucid dreaming for years and have done plenty of reading on the forums here. Back when I was a lot more serious about lucidity, I spent a good week or two just filling my mind with the possibilities of lucid dreaming. I focused on constant reality checks, (I mean, too many reality checks a day). Four years is a long time to desire lucidity without ever getting it.

      Doing this brought me some "semi" or "false" lucids as people have called them, but nothing where my conscious mind was actually aware in the dream. Other than that, I have never really stuck with any one technique because I just get discouraged.

      I've tried mantras before bed, but I can almost never focus. My mind just wants to go anywhere else but on the mantra. At this point, awareness during the day is just a monumental chore and I hoped I could achieve lucidity without it.

      Only tried WBTB a couple times because I think I'm still scared of the actual possibility that I could become lucid.
      I know I'm safe in a lucid dream, so why can't I just get over the whole fear thing. It's ridiculous.

      In short, I've been serious about lucid dreaming on and off, in short bursts, most of the time either frustrated or afraid. I think no one here can really help me, it's more something I have to conquer on my own.

      Oh yeah, is it seriously possible to become lucid without daytime awareness? I hate reality checks so much.
      Last edited by Mgc88; 09-25-2016 at 10:35 PM.

    13. #13
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      It is possible to become lucid without daytime awareness. Personally, in all my LDing practice I've done hardly any daytime awareness (sometimes doing reality checks in bed upon waking up) yet throughout the past 4 years, I've had about 1350 LDs.

      If you have sensory awareness during your dreams, you have enough awareness to LD.

      The reason you don't become lucid is because you don't expect to be dreaming. You expect what you learn, so to expect yourself to be dreaming during the dream, you learn beforehand in waking life that its possible to be dreaming in whatever situation you are in during the dream. You could learn this from your past dreams. For example, before knowing what LDing or reality checks were, I had my first LDs by catching a recurring nightmare I had. By having the nightmare over and over, I learned that what happened during the nightmare only happened when I was dreaming. So, after I learned that, whenever I had the nightmare, I expected to be dreaming.

      Learn from your past dreams what happens only when you're dreaming and set the intention to become lucid when those same things happen in your future dreams. You can do this while you're in bed.

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      OP, this is exactly the problem I have as well, thanks for bringing it up
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      I suppose one difference for me is that my first Intentional Lucid was not my first lucid dream. So I knew when I began trying that it was possible. As I had had lucid dreams long ago. I am glad that you said that you have a dream journal, as that would be my first question. Also that you mention that you have had some semi or false lucids, as my next question would be have you had any near misses.

      http://www.dreamviews.com/general-lu...-new-post.html

      Maybe you should read the stupidest ways you've missed becoming lucid thread, for other peoples examples of embarrassing misses, so you can compare how close yours were.

      I'm sure you will be able to become lucid since you are clearly doing RC and dream journal, but don't expect your first intentional one to allow you instant stability, total control and 15+minutes of doing what you want. Realize Lucid dreaming involves many skills and most of them only come with some experience.

      So my advice is to keep RC (but not 100 times a day) keep journaling and try wbtb mild and other things until you get some success.
      Last edited by cooleymd; 09-27-2016 at 01:36 AM.
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      Sure LUCID DREAMS are all fun and games until someone loses a third eye.

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      Okay, I never expected this many responses. Right now, I'm unsure if I will even try to lucid dream. I want to, but I've never stuck to one technique for more than two weeks or so.
      I currently do nothing to induce lucidity, no RCs or anything. I feel like if I'm going to commit to trying to achieve lucidity, it has to be some way that I can stick to for a long time, and not get burned out.

      Like I said, I hate reality checks. It seems like nothing else could actually make me lucid, though. What I want to do is make a relaxation/self hypnosis tape with my own script to induce lucidity. Then I could listen to it before bed consistently each night and it seems easy to do.

      Do people here have success with self hypnosis type induction?

      Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like whatever method is catered to my interest specifically is going to keep me motivated more than something I hate. First I'd have to get a digital voice recorder for easy recording purposes.

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      I got the overall impression that you seem unsure if you really wanted to lucid dreaming first, since it seemed like you had other issues that you wanted to cover up with lucid dreaming. BUT! If you keep looking out for more fullfilling reasons for you to pursue lucid dreaming rather than cover up issues in waking life, then Im sure that your willingness to pursue lucidity and increase your awareness will come naturally too you, instead of you trying to chase your motivation with vague reasons.

      My biggest reason to becoming lucid the first time I heard about it, was that it seemed so alien to me, and also that it was a greater way of being creative in a way that goes beyond our abilities in the waking world. It is simply a shift in one owns awareness, and that in itself is something very speciall to experience even if it's just for a short time. And a good thing to keep in mind, is to not build up to many expectations, leave that to the surprising part and allow your self to feel what comes to you.

      So find more reasons for you to pursue lucidity to get that curiosity to grow stronger, it may be usefull in many more ways to your life than you could imagine now.

      If your curiosity grows, then motivation will follow.
      You are not your thoughts...

    18. #18
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      Sure you can even use audio while your sleeping/dreaming in an attempt to induce. I have tried this N times, number of successful inductions like once or twice.

      I use a pretty cheap method, I set an audio loop playing of some Lucid thing (from youtube) and then I play white noise like rain over the top of it and fall asleep, but I have the white noise set to time out. When I fall asleep I hear only rain or whatever, but then while sleeping 80+ minutes in, I begin to hear the message on a loop at low volume. (Unfortunately the reason that this probably only rarely works is because the sound probably only penetrates at the very end of REM when close to waking)

      Sure I have only succeeded a few times at most, but on several occasions I was in a dream and suddenly was watching a video or movie or listening to radio about becoming lucid (but didn't trigger, or RC). Sometimes instead of lucidity itself I use the underlying audio just to induce a particular dream topic, and then MILD myself with becoming lucid on that topic. I have succeeded in creating dreams on the topic being recited but did not become lucid (still can be quite fun depending on chosen topic).

      I recommend if you are going to try this method that you use more advanced technology, like audio that plays at predetermined times. Also you might want to wear a hockey mask to bed, so that when you wake up from your non-lucid dream about some lucid topic, you don't feel it as much, as you punch yourself in the face
      Last edited by cooleymd; 09-27-2016 at 05:31 AM.
      Sure LUCID DREAMS are all fun and games until someone loses a third eye.

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