Thread: would it be a sin?

I do remember reading something in the bible saying, along the lines, that if a man has a dream and does something bad in it, they must put them self outside the camp's walls and stay there for the day.
This might not seem so bad but in those days, you would have been easily killed. I can't exactly remember what book it is in but i do remember talking about it. I remember saying its pretty unfair because you can't control a dream, which at that time i thought it was impossible. I'll have to search for it but if it says so when you don't control a dream, then controling a dream is just as bad. Jesus did say that if you think of murdering someone then you have already sinned. True its yourself but you still have the intent of doing murder in a dream and even though its okay, its still the thought what counts. Its pretty unfair as well that your going to murder your self really because its a figment of a dream you made up form yourself.

All verses in the Bible that mention dreams:

Gen 20:3 But God came to Abimelech in a dream in the night, and said to him, Truly you are a dead man because of the woman whom you have taken; for she is a man's wife.
Gen 20:6 And God said to him in the dream, I see that you have done this with an upright heart, and I have kept you from sinning against me: for this reason I did not let you come near her.
Gen 28:12 And he had a dream, and in his dream he saw steps stretching from earth to heaven, and the angels of God were going up and down on them.
Gen 31:10 And at the time when the flock were with young, I saw in a dream that all the he-goats which were joined with the she-goats were banded and marked and coloured.
Gen 31:11 And in my dream the angel of the Lord said to me, Jacob: and I said, Here am I.
Gen 31:24 Then God came to Laban in a dream by night, and said to him, Take care that you say nothing good or bad to Jacob.
Gen 37:5 Now Joseph had a dream, and he gave his brothers an account of it, which made their hate greater than ever.
Gen 37:6 And he said to them, Let me give you the story of my dream.
Gen 37:8 And his brothers said to him, Are you to be our king? will you have authority over us? And because of his dream and his words, their hate for him became greater than ever.
Gen 37:9 Then he had another dream, and gave his brothers an account of it, saying, I have had another dream: the sun and the moon and eleven stars gave honour to me.
Gen 37:10 And he gave word of it to his father and his brothers; but his father protesting said, What sort of a dream is this? am I and your mother and your brothers to go down on our faces to the earth before you?
Gen 37:19 Saying to one another, See, here comes this dreamer.
Gen 37:20 Let us now put him to death and put his body into one of these holes, and we will say, An evil beast has put him to death: then we will see what becomes of his dreams.
Gen 40:5 And these two had a dream on the same night; the chief wine-servant and the chief bread-maker of the king of Egypt, who were in prison, the two of them had dreams with a special sense.
Gen 40:8 Then they said to him, We have had a dream, and no one is able to give us the sense. And Joseph said, Does not the sense of dreams come from God? what was your dream?
Gen 40:9 Then the chief wine-servant gave Joseph an account of his dream, and said, In my dream I saw a vine before me;
Gen 40:12 Then Joseph said, This is the sense of your dream: the three branches are three days;
Gen 40:16 Now when the chief bread-maker saw that the first dream had a good sense, he said to Joseph, I had a dream; and in my dream there were three baskets of white bread on my head;
Gen 40:18 Then Joseph said, This is the sense of your dream: the three baskets are three days;
Gen 41:1 Now after two years had gone by, Pharaoh had a dream; and in his dream he was by the side of the Nile;
Gen 41:5 But he went to sleep again and had a second dream, in which he saw seven heads of grain, full and good, all on one stem.
Gen 41:7 And the seven thin heads made a meal of the good heads. And when Pharaoh was awake he saw it was a dream.
Gen 41:8 And in the morning his spirit was troubled; and he sent for all the wise men of Egypt and all the holy men, and put his dream before them, but no one was able to give him the sense of it.
Gen 41:11 And we had a dream on the same night, the two of us, and the dreams had a special sense.
Gen 41:12 And there was with us a young Hebrew, the captain's servant, and when we put our dreams before him, he gave us the sense of them.
Gen 41:15 And Pharaoh said to Joseph, I have had a dream, and no one is able to give me the sense of it; now it has come to my ears that you are able to give the sense of a dream when it is put before you.
Gen 41:17 Then Pharaoh said, In my dream I was by the side of the Nile:
Gen 41:22 And again in a dream I saw seven heads of grain, full and good, coming up on one stem:
Gen 41:24 And the seven thin heads made a meal of the seven good heads; and I put this dream before the wise men, but not one of them was able to give me the sense of it.
Gen 41:25 Then Joseph said, These two dreams have the same sense: God has made clear to Pharaoh what he is about to do.
Gen 41:32 And this dream came to Pharaoh twice, because this thing is certain, and God will quickly make it come about.
Gen 42:9 Then the memory of his dreams about them came back to Joseph, and he said to them, You have come secretly to see how poor the land is.
Num 12:6 And he said, Now give ear to my words: if there is a prophet among you I will give him knowledge of myself in a vision and will let my words come to him in a dream.
Deu 13:1 If ever you have among you a prophet or a dreamer of dreams and he gives you a sign or a wonder,
Deu 13:3 Then give no attention to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams: for the Lord your God is testing you, to see if all the love of your heart and soul is given to him.
Deu 13:5 And that prophet or that dreamer of dreams is to be put to death; for his words were said with the purpose of turning you away from the Lord your God, who took you out of the land of Egypt and made you free from the prison-house; and of forcing you out of the way in which the Lord your God has given you orders to go. So you are to put away the evil from among you.
Jug 7:13 When Gideon came there, a man was giving his friend an account of his dream, saying, See, I had a dream about a cake of barley bread which, falling into the tents of Midian, came on to the tent, overturning it so that it was stretched out flat on the earth.
Jug 7:15 Then Gideon, hearing the story of the dream and the sense in which they took it, gave worship; then he went back to the tents of Israel, and said, Up! for the Lord has given the army of Midian into your hands.
1Sa 28:6 And when Saul went for directions to the Lord, the Lord gave him no answer, by a dream or by the Urim or by the prophets.
1Sa 28:15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why have you made me come up, troubling my rest? And Saul in answer said, I am in great danger; for the Philistines are making war on me, and God has gone away from me and will no longer give me any answer, by the prophets or by dreams: so I have sent for you to make clear to me what I am to do.
1Ki 3:5 In Gibeon, Solomon had a vision of the Lord in a dream by night; and God said to him, Say what I am to give you.
1Ki 3:15 And Solomon, awakening, saw that it was a dream; then he came to Jerusalem, where he went before the ark of the agreement of the Lord, offering burned offerings and peace-offerings; and he made a feast for all his servants.
Job 7:14 Then you send dreams to me, and visions of fear;
Job 20:8 He is gone like a dream, and is not seen again; he goes in flight like a vision of the night.
Job 33:15 In a dream, in a vision of the night, when deep sleep comes on men, while they take their rest on their beds;
Psm 73:20 As a dream when one is awake, they are ended; they are like an image gone out of mind when sleep is over.
Psm 126:1 <A Song of the going up.> When the Lord made a change in Zion's fate, we were like men in a dream.
Ecc 5:3 As a dream comes from much business, so the voice of a foolish man comes with words in great number.
Ecc 5:7 Because much talk comes from dreams and things of no purpose. But let the fear of God be in you.
Isa 29:7 And all the nations making war on Ariel, and all those who are fighting against her and shutting her in with their towers, will be like a dream, like a vision of the night.
Isa 29:8 And it will be like a man desiring food, and dreaming that he is feasting; but when he is awake there is nothing in his mouth: or like a man in need of water, dreaming that he is drinking; but when he is awake he is feeble and his soul is full of desire: so will all the nations be which make war on Mount Zion.Isa 56:10 His watchmen are blind, they are all without knowledge; they are all dogs without tongues, unable to make a sound; stretched out dreaming, loving sleep.
Jer 23:25 My ears have been open to what the prophets have said, who say false words in my name, saying, I have had a dream, I have had a dream, I have had a dream,
Jer 23:27 Whose purpose is to take away the memory of my name from my people by their dreams, of which every man is talking to his neighbour, as their fathers gave up the memory of my name for the Baal.
Jer 23:28 If a prophet has a dream, let him give out his dream; and he who has my word, let him give out my word in good faith. What has the dry stem to do with the grain? says the Lord.
Jer 23:32 See, I am against the prophets of false dreams, says the Lord, who give them out and make my people go out of the way by their deceit and their uncontrolled words: but I did not send them or give them orders; and they will be of no profit to this people, says the Lord.
Jer 27:9 And you are not to give attention to your prophets or your readers of signs or your dreamers or those who see into the future or those who make use of secret arts, who say to you, You will not become servants of the king of Babylon:
Jer 29:8 For this is what the Lord of armies, the God of Israel, has said: Do not let yourselves be tricked by the prophets who are among you, and the readers of signs, and give no attention to their dreams which they may have;
Dan 1:17 Now as for these four young men, God gave them knowledge and made them expert in all book-learning and wisdom: and Daniel was wise in all visions and dreams.
Dan 2:1 In the second year of the rule of Nebuchadnezzar, Nebuchadnezzar had dreams; and his spirit was troubled and his sleep went from him.
Dan 2:2 Then the king gave orders that the wonder-workers, and the users of secret arts, and those who made use of evil powers, and the Chaldaeans, were to be sent for to make clear to the king his dreams. So they came and took their places before the king.
Dan 2:3 And the king said to them, I have had a dream, and my spirit is troubled by the desire to have the dream made clear to me.
Dan 2:4 Then the Chaldaeans said to the king in the Aramaean language, O King, have life for ever: give your servants an account of your dream, and we will make clear to you the sense of it.
Dan 2:5 The king made answer and said to the Chaldaeans, This is my decision: if you do not make clear to me the dream and the sense of it, you will be cut in bits and your houses made waste.
Dan 2:6 But if you make clear the dream and the sense of it, you will have from me offerings and rewards and great honour: so make clear to me the dream and the sense of it.
Dan 2:7 A second time they said in answer, Let the king give his servants an account of his dream, and we will make clear the sense.
Dan 2:9 That if you do not make my dream clear to me there is only one fate for you: for you have made ready false and evil words to say before me till the times are changed: so give me an account of the dream, and I will be certain that you are able to make the sense of it clear.
Dan 2:16 And Daniel went in and made a request to the king to give him time and he would make clear the sense of his dream to the king.
Dan 2:24 For this reason Daniel went to Arioch, to whom the king had given orders for the destruction of the wise men of Babylon, and said to him, Do not put to death the wise men of Babylon: take me in before the king and I will make clear to him the sense of the dream.
Dan 2:25 Then Arioch quickly took Daniel in before the king, and said to him, Here is a man from among the prisoners of Judah, who will make clear to the king the sense of the dream.
Dan 2:26 The king made answer and said to Daniel, whose name was Belteshazzar, Are you able to make clear to me the dream which I saw and its sense?
Dan 2:28 But there is a God in heaven, the unveiler of secrets, and he has given to King Nebuchadnezzar knowledge of what will take place in the last days. Your dreams and the visions of your head on your bed are these:
Dan 2:30 As for me, this secret is not made clear to me because of any wisdom which I have more than any living man, but in order that the sense of the dream may be made clear to the king, and that you may have knowledge of the thoughts of your heart.
Dan 2:36 This is the dream; and we will make clear to the king the sense of it.
Dan 2:45 Because you saw that a stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that by it the iron and the brass and the earth and the silver and the gold were broken to bits, a great God has given the king knowledge of what is to take place in the future: the dream is fixed, and its sense is certain.
Dan 4:5 I saw a dream which was a cause of great fear to me; I was troubled by the images of my mind on my bed, and by the visions of my head.
Dan 4:6 And I gave orders for all the wise men of Babylon to come in before me so that they might make clear to me the sense of my dream.
Dan 4:7 Then the wonder-workers, the users of secret arts, the Chaldaeans, and the readers of signs came in to me: and I put the dream before them but they did not make clear the sense of it to me.
Dan 4:8 But at last Daniel came in before me, he whose name was Belteshazzar, after the name of my god, and in whom is the spirit of the holy gods: and I put the dream before him, saying,
Dan 4:9 O Belteshazzar, master of the wonder-workers, because I am certain that the spirit of the holy gods is in you, and you are troubled by no secret; this is the dream which I saw: make clear to me its sense.
Dan 4:18 This dream I, King Nebuchadnezzar, saw; and do you, O Belteshazzar, make clear the sense of it, for all the wise men of my kingdom are unable to make the sense of it clear to me; but you are able, for the spirit of the holy gods is in you.
Dan 4:19 Then Daniel, whose name was Belteshazzar, was at a loss for a time, his thoughts troubling him. The king made answer and said, Belteshazzar, do not be troubled by the dream or by the sense of it. Belteshazzar, answering, said, My lord, may the dream be about your haters, and its sense about those who are against you.
Dan 5:12 Because a most special spirit, and knowledge and reason and the power of reading dreams and unfolding dark sayings and answering hard questions, were seen to be in him, even in Daniel (named Belteshazzar by the king): now let Daniel be sent for, and he will make clear the sense of the writing.
Dan 7:1 In the first year of Belshazzar, king of Babylon, Daniel saw a dream, and visions came into his head on his bed: then he put the dream in writing.
Joe 2:28 And after that, it will come about, says the Lord, that I will send my spirit on all flesh; and your sons and your daughters will be prophets, your old men will have dreams, your young men will see visions:
Zec 10:2 For the images have said what is not true, and the readers of signs have seen deceit; they have given accounts of false dreams, they give comfort to no purpose: so they go out of the way like sheep, they are troubled because they have no keeper.
Mat 1:20 But when he was giving thought to these things, an angel of the Lord came to him in a dream, saying, Joseph, son of David, have no fear of taking Mary as your wife; because that which is in her body is of the Holy Spirit.
Mat 2:12 And it was made clear to them by God in a dream that they were not to go back to Herod; so they went into their country by another way.
Mat 2:13 And when they had gone, an angel of the Lord came to Joseph in a dream, saying, Get up and take the young child and his mother, and go into Egypt, and do not go from there till I give you word; for Herod will be searching for the young child to put him to death.
Mat 2:19 But when Herod was dead, an angel of the Lord came in a dream to Joseph in Egypt,
Mat 2:22 But when it came to his ears that Archelaus was ruling over Judaea in the place of his father Herod, he was in fear of going there; and God having given him news of the danger in a dream, he went out of the way into the country parts of Galilee.
Mat 27:19 And while he was on the judge's seat, his wife sent to him, saying, Have nothing to do with that upright man, for I have had much trouble this day in a dream because of him.
Act 2:17 And it will come about, in the last days, says God, that I will send out my Spirit on all flesh; and your sons and your daughters will be prophets, and your young men will see visions, and your old men will have dreams:
Jud 1:8 In the same way these dreamers make the flesh unclean, having no respect for authorities, and say evil of rulers.

oh my god.
i wish there was something in the bible mentioning LDs. i would feel hella motivated after haha.

Originally Posted by Mr.caramel

Jesus did say that if you think of murdering someone then you have already sinned.

if you're actually going to do it with intentions of doing it that it becomes a sin, but if someone's talking about it and the thought simply pops into your head, it's not a sin. just thinking about it isn't doing anything wrong if you dont plan on doing it

If you hate them enough that you really want to kill them, that's when it becomes like murder and is a sin.

Originally Posted by Jeremysr

If you hate them enough that you really want to kill them, that's when it becomes like murder and is a sin.

If you had a valid reason to hate someone to the point where you wished he would die (e.g. he raped and/or murdered your wife, mother, or sister), would you consider yourself a sinner? I find a lot of these religious interpretations a bit far-fetched.

Originally Posted by Lonewolf

If you look at the context and cross-reference you can tell which parts of the bible is symbolic. I can show you an example if you want. Also, where in the bible does it say to kill homosexuals? Please quote it.

If you feel bad about yourself you feel guilty and that would mean something hurt your conscience--which would be your morals,
Definition of conscience: the inner sense of what is right or wrong in one's conduct or motives, impelling one toward right action
Also, yes God is forgiving, everyone sins and he forgives them. What he hates is people who PRACTICE sin, who actualy seek it out.

Really, God doesn't hate anyone, but just has a righteous anger towards that person who seeks out sin. People who practice sin normally don't do it on purpose. For example: porn. It's not my weakness, but some of my friends, and they don't want to practice that sin, yet they still do because they're only human. My point is: people who seek sin out, God doesn't hate; he's probably just disappointed or angry at that person.

Originally Posted by lagunagirl

answer to first question: God has that right, he's the person who commanded people NOT to do that until they're married and to only do that with the opposite gender
second question: no, being bisexual wont give you an eternity in hell, because there are ways to get to heaven even if you do sin, if that wasn't true then EVERYONE would be damned to hell because it's absolutely IMPOSSIBLE to go a lifetime without doing one wrong thing. also, one sin isn't enough to damn you to hell unless it's very serious like murder or suicide, and still even after that if you feel bad enough about it and repent there are still ways

Even if you murder, you can still be forgiven for that sin. If it's suicide, you can probably still be forgiven for that and go to heaven for that. I'm pretty sure that's right; I should check it out.

Originally Posted by lindsey609

Even if you murder, you can still be forgiven for that sin. If it's suicide, you can probably still be forgiven for that and go to heaven for that. I'm pretty sure that's right; I should check it out.

oh yeah, sorry i should have been more clear, that's what i meant when I said "there are still ways"

Originally Posted by lindsey609

Really, God doesn't hate anyone, but just has a righteous anger towards that person who seeks out sin. People who practice sin normally don't do it on purpose. For example: porn. It's not my weakness, but some of my friends, and they don't want to practice that sin, yet they still do because they're only human. My point is: people who seek sin out, God doesn't hate; he's probably just disappointed or angry at that person..

Yes, God does hate certain individuals, people who are wicked in his eyes.

Psalms 11:5: The Lord examines the righteous,
but the wicked and those who love violence
his soul hates.

Romans 9:13: Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."

It is true that what God is really hating is the sinful act itself but a person practicing that forces God to be aganst the person too.

Proverbs 6:16-19:
16 There are six things the Lord hates,
seven that are detestable to him:
17 haughty eyes,
a lying tongue,
hands that shed innocent blood,
18 a heart that devises wicked schemes,
feet that are quick to rush into evil,
19 a false witness who pours out lies
and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers.

Proverbs 8:13: To fear the Lord is to hate what is bad

So you can try to convince yourself all you want that you can't help it that you watch porn. But really, if you were to hate what is bad, would you even allow it to be in your home? Would you even allow yourself to dwell on impure thoughts even though you have the free will to dismiss them? Even though you can pray to God for help? Yes I know people sin everyday, because that is mankind's condition, but you should not use that as excuse to go on consciously persueing certain forms of entertainment that glorify bloodshed and immorality. God knows the hearts, he knows what you can and can't control.

Originally Posted by lindsey609

Even if you murder, you can still be forgiven for that sin. If it's suicide, you can probably still be forgiven for that and go to heaven for that. I'm pretty sure that's right; I should check it out.

Yes you can be forgiven, such as the apostle Paul was forgiven for persecuting and even killing the true christians. But it was because he was ignorant at that time.

wow its so crazy to see how many people are willing to go on about religion forever

Originally Posted by dsr

If you had a valid reason to hate someone to the point where you wished he would die (e.g. he raped and/or murdered your wife, mother, or sister), would you consider yourself a sinner? I find a lot of these religious interpretations a bit far-fetched.

Yes, because I'm sure that if you hate them it must be because they sinned in some way. It's all a problem of sin. We shouldn't focus so much on sin anymore though, because we've been freed from it!

Originally Posted by Jeremysr

We shouldn't focus so much on sin anymore though, because we've been freed from it!

I keep having the feeling to say "right on brother/sister" When anyone says that.

Originally Posted by Jeremysr

We shouldn't focus so much on sin anymore though, because we've been freed from it!

but it's still our responsibility to do the right thing and try not to sin, because the only way we ARE freed from it is through repentance. It's not like we can just go around doing whatever we want thinking that we wont have the sins. We would have to repent after we sin and it's not right to just go around doing bad things thinking "it's ok, i can just repent" that's a sin in itself

Originally Posted by dsr

If you had a valid reason to hate someone to the point where you wished he would die (e.g. he raped and/or murdered your wife, mother, or sister), would you consider yourself a sinner? I find a lot of these religious interpretations a bit far-fetched.

Absolutely. While I consider myself very religious (I practice regularly and follow it constantly), much of what the old/new testament says I don't believe is supposed to be taken literally or to the extreme. Plus, with all the years that have passed, re translating, and the gap of time between when the teachings were spoken to when they were written down, how can one trust the holy books 100%. I'm sure that the basic meaning is still there, but, especially in Catholicism where corrupt popes revised the bible, the bible and such can't be completely accurate and therefore should not be interpreted the way some do.

Plus, with all the years that have passed, re translating, and the gap of time between when the teachings were spoken to when they were written down, how can one trust the holy books 100%.

Because it is God's Word, and his Word never changes. The Old Testament was only translated twice by the way: Orginally Hebrew > Greek > English. The New testament, I think was originally in Greek, and translated right from Greek to English.

Originally Posted by Jeremysr

Because it is God's Word, and his Word never changes. The Old Testament was only translated twice by the way: Originally Hebrew > Greek > English. The New testament, I think was originally in Greek, and translated right from Greek to English.

You have to keep in mind that although it is the word of God it is written by the hand of man. So while the overall message is still there, there will be imperfections. The writings in the Old Testament were often written so long after the event it would be the equivalent of writing the first account of the battle of Hastings today!!
The Bible is still very important and should be used as a guide but I do not think everything in it should be taken as literal fact.


As for committing a sin in a LD I think it comes down to respect of a fellow human being. We are told to love one another and so any act of violence, lust etc towards another human being is disrespectful and so a sin. It is not hurting anyone no, but it is disrespecting that individual, a child of God.

Violence in a game or against random DCs cannot be seen as sinful because not only is it not harming anyone it isn't disrespecting anyone either.

as for being dammed to hell - I do not see hell as a "place" rather a state of being. I do not see a day of judgment from God (I cannot see God condemning or there being separation from God) rather our spirits living with that we have created e.g. negative thoughts creates negative outcomes (cause and effect, Karma....). You may then ask what is the point of forgiveness if we are not judged, I see it as removing the sin removes the negative state of being aka hell. One last point on this subject I cannot agree with the fact that we don't have to worry about sin anymore, if that were true Jesus would not have sent his disciples to teach and forgive sins.

On the effect of violence or sex in a game or an LD;

"All that we are is the result of what we have thought. The mind is everything. What we think we become." - Buddha.

It has been proven our thoughts alone effect everything. Anger can turn body fluids acidic (this has even caused lactating woman to unknowing kill their babies). We surround ourselves with happiness we will become happy, we surround ourselves with violence we will become violent. How many times have you wanted to smash your fist through the PC screen when you keep dying in a game?

Wow my longest post yet!! sorry about that!
Bushido