Thread: if LDing is real then what about. . .

Hehe, I couldn't agree with you guys more about videos! At least we agree on something! A lot of videos are fake...definitely a big fact!

However, that doesn't mean that telekinesis is fake, does it? I mean, skeptics will point out that a psi wheel can be moved by heat, yet does that mean that it cannot be moved in any other way? Of course not!

And for trying it out yourself, do some research. There is not just one method. What I do/did, might not work for you. Also, belief in the ability helps, so if you have 0 belief that it will work, then chances are it won't simply because of the mental block that it creates.

I'm glad that some people are finally delving into this. And by all means, I'm not saying to have blind faith in me or anyone else. I could very well be lying. I'm not, but how do you guys know that? So like I said, doing it yourself is the best proof.

I would suggest, for starters, going to psipog.net (archived, but the articles are great), psistudies.net or psilinks.org to find more great sites, or psionicsonline.net

Furthermore, don't get caught up in videos. It's just too hard to tell what is real and what is not. It's not even worth arguing about the validity of certain videos. Just trust me on that one, haha.

Good luck,
Brandon

P.s. If you guys have any questions, wanna learn more, or just have any comments, I'm always going to be checking the private messages, so feel free to contact me that way!

Originally Posted by magicdood

Hehe, I'm loving this!

First off, I see where you are coming about the article on psipog, fair enough.

However, there have been numerous people who could do telekinesis that have tried to setup a meeting with Randi and been denied.

In fact, http://psistudies.net/forums/index.php?topic=541.0

Anyways, not everyone here is in this for the money. I am on the path of self-realization and Enlightenment, and money to me, means very little. I can't say that about everyone, but that takes a way me at least.

Furthermore, I don't need you calling me a liar. I mean, this argument is going to get nowhere. I've done Pk in real life, you are very close minded...and that's it.

How can you call me a liar when you have never seen me perform Pk. How?

Brandon

Oh and a quick addition about brain power and such. An empty mind does help in telekinesis. You've never tried so why are you arguing that?

I can call you a liar because you're not even willing to TRY to prove to us your wild claim of telekinesis.

And for the record, I have tried it in my younger days (read: 4-5 years ago). I believed in that crap 100% and tried to do witchcraft, tried to make these stupid psi-balls, spent a good time doing it. Wanna know why I failed? Because a) it doesn't exist and b) I wasn't about to try and trick myself into seeing a ball. Also, I've never heard ESP and the like connected with enlightenment. Try Buddhism? As for Buddhist, I just think they're able to clear their minds so much they don't give a crap for anything and take it while it goes. If you really think you can do telekinesis, why not use it to save the goddam world?

If it turns out you and your ESP buddies are real, you're all incredibly selfish. But that won't happen because you're not selfish; you're delusional.

Originally Posted by Needcatscan

Okay, I'm extremely skeptical about PK but I certainly don't think it's impossible (hence me starting this thread). And I found it very interesting how in P&N Bullsh!t that they show a quick clip of the famous Russian woman (Nina Kulagina) back years and years ago who had hundreds of controlled tests done on film and she proved she could move things with her mind over and over again, and yet Penn and Teller didn't talk about her AT ALL. Curious. And I've seen every Bullshit episode and I think Randi was an awesome guy. After reading those emails and board posts I think he's a first rate ass.

Many skeptical individuals and organizations, such as the James Randi Educational Foundation and the Italian Committee for the Investigation of Claims on the Paranormal(CICAP) express strong skepticism regarding the truth of these claims. It is noted that the long preparation times and uncontrolled environments (such as hotel rooms) in which the experiments took place left much potential for trickery.[1] Skeptics have argued that many of Kulagina's feats could easily be performed by one practiced in sleight of hand, through means such as cleverly concealed or disguised threads, small pieces of magnetic metal, or mirrors.[2] They further point to the fact that no sleight of hand experts appear to have ever been present during experiments, and that the Cold War-era Soviet Union had an obvious motive for falsifying or exaggerating results in the potential propaganda value in appearing to win a "Psi Race" analogous to the concurrent Space Race or arms race.

Let's not trust the USSR, mmkay?

Originally Posted by Needcatscan

Getting on with my original post, I'm not calling you a liar because you say you can perform PK, I'm calling you a liar because you say money means very little. This is a major sign of someone who is completely full of shit.

Also, most comps have webcams by this point, post a video that makes it plainly obvious you are performing PK, put a non-magnetic object under a clear bowl and move it around or something. Don't pull a Jesus and just say we should have faith in you.

As for money, I can understand people who say money isn't important to them. As long as they lead a comfortable life (which doesn't mean rich), then who cares? Money destroys people all too often. (But a million dollars won't ). Either way, this guy is lying.

Originally Posted by magicdood

Why would you call me a liar for thinking that money isn't important. Did you not remember me saying that I am on the path of self-realization. When you do this, you start to lose your attachments to the physical world. So, therefore I am not attached to money. If it helps me help others, then I might care, but in this case, I am not here for fame or money. I'll admit, I haven't quite lost the attachment, but I'm not going to do this just for the money. That would be a huge waste.

Pull a Jesus? Haha. Nope, I don't mind you not believing in me! That's absolutely fine. I can understand you not believing in me. It doesn't bother me. Go right ahead.

We will go ahead. You're not impressing us.

Hehe, I'm still loving how you are calling me delusional. It just shows your ignorance. I mean, you are telling me that I cannot do Pk, when I have rolled a can, slid foil, and other things via telekinesis. Yet you are telling me that I'm delusional?

I don't have any reason to attempt to prove it to you. Why should I? All that will happen is you will find a way to call me a liar in more ways. You my friend are very very ignorant. The comment about Buddhist, I've never heard anything like it. It's so astounding how ignorant you are.

How am I selfish? I'm trying to spread the word of things that will help elevate us as a people, and you are trying to stop it...yet I'm selfish? I don't think so.

Furthurmore, your lack of knowledge about enlightenment shows your lack of ability to do any research, and your lack of ability to have an open mind. Not everything that you believe is true. And until you understand that, you will not ever understand the far greater potential of our lives.

Brandon

Alright people. I promise I wont lie in any of this, but of course anybody can say that. I assure you I'm not though. I have experience in both LDing AND psionics. Theyre both real. There IS evedence of psionics too, and scientists ARE all over it. And also, somebody beat Randi's challenge. I've shown Magicdood my Psychokinesis live over a webcam. You can even ask him. He could be lying for me, but dont you think that seems a bit stupid? "Hey, will you help me fake PK to these people?". Yeah.. Do you think thered be so many websites all about psionics with thousands of members each claiming to do PK? PsiPog, PsiOnline, UPC, and MUCH more. I've convinced skeptics too just by doing some live PK and maybe sending them a psiball. Whats the point of PSI Tech (http://www.psitech.net/) if theres no such thing as psi? Psi is even used to help out in the military. Theres even gov't documents on Remote Viewing. Now try to explain every one of these I have here. And if your looking for the government documents: http://www.theblackvault.com/modules...=true&pageID=9 You can even ask for these documents yourself.The only reason why people dont beleive in psionics is because they were brought up thinking its fake. People told you that your entire life. Eat it.

When I try and tell people about LDing, I get all kinds of responses. I might get, "Yeah I've done that, isn't flying fun?" from one person, and then, "You're such a liar," from the next. I sort of halfway think telekinesis exists. Kind of like if aliens don't visit earth how do you know they don't exist? If you don't see you neighbor floating his mail to his hand using his mind how do you know he can't? Hmm... interesting topic.

Hey look! A man with an open mind. Nice to see one around here every once in a while!

I agree with pretty much everything you said, however, you always make me jealous by having a webcam...damn I wish I did hehe.

Isn't that kind of like "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" though? In other words, because we don't know a person can't wield psionics must mean the possibility exists, right?

Don't really have an opinion here, I'm just saying that some people think along different lines.

Originally Posted by magicdood

Hehe, I'm still loving how you are calling me delusional. It just shows your ignorance. I mean, you are telling me that I cannot do Pk, when I have rolled a can, slid foil, and other things via telekinesis. Yet you are telling me that I'm delusional?

I don't have any reason to attempt to prove it to you. Why should I? All that will happen is you will find a way to call me a liar in more ways. You my friend are very very ignorant. The comment about Buddhist, I've never heard anything like it. It's so astounding how ignorant you are.

How am I selfish? I'm trying to spread the word of things that will help elevate us as a people, and you are trying to stop it...yet I'm selfish? I don't think so.

Furthurmore, your lack of knowledge about enlightenment shows your lack of ability to do any research, and your lack of ability to have an open mind. Not everything that you believe is true. And until you understand that, you will not ever understand the far greater potential of our lives.

Brandon

You're selfish because you're obviously not trying to spread it. You're basically saying "neener neener, I can do this, but hey, I DON'T HAVE TO PROVE IT I DON'T CARE IF YOU BELIEVE ME NEENER NEENER".

Listen, there's zero proof what you claim to do is real. ZERO. Can you understand that? And you're not providing any evidence to it either. You're just saying you can do it. That's not evidence.

My lack of knowledge about enlightment...who the hell cares? It has nothing to do with your wildly outrageously claims of the impossible. You're like Uri Geller. You can do a few cool stunts for friends, but when someone challenges you all of a sudden you're stressed and can't perform. Why is that? Because they put in safeguards so you can't cheat.

You remind me of Steorn. They're a company that said they can produce free-energy. Now, in case you don't know, this violates the laws of thermodynamics (which just isn't going to happen). They were supposed to show their Orbo (or whatever they're calling it) machine today and prove free-energy can occur. Guess what? Technical difficulties in the cams and no show from Steorn. That's you.

A liar, or at least a very delusional person. Provide evidence that any of what you says exists or can even happen, or shut the hell up. I, and other people are not interested in your false claims.

Originally Posted by Lunalight

When I try and tell people about LDing, I get all kinds of responses. I might get, "Yeah I've done that, isn't flying fun?" from one person, and then, "You're such a liar," from the next. I sort of halfway think telekinesis exists. Kind of like if aliens don't visit earth how do you know they don't exist? If you don't see you neighbor floating his mail to his hand using his mind how do you know he can't? Hmm... interesting topic.

Aliens are far more likely to be real than ESP and telekinesis. They're not even comparable. The universe and it's laws account for other life forms. Not for ESP.

Oh, shut up dude. If he believes in something you think is fake, why don't you just leave him to it? Do you think you're convincing anyone here?

Originally Posted by 27

Oh, shut up dude. If he believes in something you think is fake, why don't you just leave him to it? Do you think you're convincing anyone here?

What if he was spouting off some unreasonable crap about how LDing ruins your life, isn't useful at all, etc upon etc. How would you feel? He's spreading crap that has no basis in science OR reality. How then?

Exactly what could you do about it over an anonymous message board? Let him say what he likes, the people he tells it to can think for themselves like you and I.

Originally Posted by Silvanus350

Exactly what could you do about it over an anonymous message board? Let him say what he likes, the people he tells it to can think for themselves like you and I.

The point is if some anonymous guy is posting crap someone might believe it, and then they would have a false belief. It's always good to have two sides of every view, not just this lopsided crap.

And if we "let everyone think for themselves" then this message board wouldn't even exist for discussion, so you're point is irrelevant.

Haha, I'm getting stressed out?! That's a good one!

Anyways, I agree, it is good to have 2 sides of every story...very good, no debate there. However, I'm actually debating, you are just calling me a liar and yelling at me. Pretty much, I'm stating my side, and you are calling me stupid. So where is your side? Being a close-minded ass? Who wants to join that side? Not me!

I'm not trying to convince anyone, just merely trying to open your minds. And your idea about me being selfish is very non-existence. I am not mocking you and saying I can do something and you can't. In fact, I have stated clearly that ANYONE can do it, and have even given sites that teach it. Now how's that for selfish? Not at all.

There are a few people so far interested, who are going to start experimenting with the greater potential of the mind that have posted so far, and probably other lurkers reading the topic. So, i'm pretty sure that others care. The problem with you, is that you think you are the center of the universe and that everything revolves around what you believe and think. It's sicking to be honest. Never have I said that it's not good to be skeptical, but it is good to be open minded. I have not tried to convert anyone, merely open their minds.

So if all you are going to do is bash and be mean to me, please stop. You are really just annoying everyone. I'll stop now to, cause i see that there is no way to get you to open your mind.

Brandon

Originally Posted by magicdood

Haha, I'm getting stressed out?! That's a good one!

Anyways, I agree, it is good to have 2 sides of every story...very good, no debate there. However, I'm actually debating, you are just calling me a liar and yelling at me. Pretty much, I'm stating my side, and you are calling me stupid. So where is your side? Being a close-minded ass? Who wants to join that side? Not me!

I'm not trying to convince anyone, just merely trying to open your minds. And your idea about me being selfish is very non-existence. I am not mocking you and saying I can do something and you can't. In fact, I have stated clearly that ANYONE can do it, and have even given sites that teach it. Now how's that for selfish? Not at all.

There are a few people so far interested, who are going to start experimenting with the greater potential of the mind that have posted so far, and probably other lurkers reading the topic. So, i'm pretty sure that others care. The problem with you, is that you think you are the center of the universe and that everything revolves around what you believe and think. It's sicking to be honest. Never have I said that it's not good to be skeptical, but it is good to be open minded. I have not tried to convert anyone, merely open their minds.

So if all you are going to do is bash and be mean to me, please stop. You are really just annoying everyone. I'll stop now to, cause i see that there is no way to get you to open your mind.

Brandon

Yeah, I think I'm the center of the universe...wait, no I don't. There's no debating from your part. You're saying "I HAVE PSYCHIC POWERS!" and when I say provide evidence, you say "Open your mind! lolz!" Provide evidence, or shut up. The burden of proof is not upon me, it's upon you, so stop claiming things you can't prove. I'd readily apologize to you if you truly have shown you have psychic powers, but of course you won't because you don't.

Go on television with your claims and spread your "word" to a larger audience - that you have psychic powers and everyone else can too! If you really want to help people, do that. I mean, what do you have to lose since you're 100% right?

Btw, I didn't mean you in particular were being stressed out, I just meant that's how it always goes when someone disproves a psychic. They can't perform under "stressful" conditions. Bullshit, in other words.

Ah, I see, my bad on the mis-interpretation. Except, it's not bullshit. you've never experienced it...Pk requires a clear mind. On t.v. or in front of people, your mind can't concentrate as well. It's takes more skill, more practice. So stop saying it's bullshit when you have no idea!

I understand your argument. I really do.

And I know you won't like my response, but that's fine. I'm not going on television cause 1. I'm too young. 2. No money. 3. parents. 4. I don't really care for the "fame" (hehe fame)

And no, that wouldn't be helping anyone out. First off, people would find ways to say I'm fake. Secondly, it would just cause conflict cause some might believe and others wouldn't. It would do more harm than good. And that is easily understandable, even for you. :p

How do you want me to provide evidence? With a video? Then you'll find ways to say that's fake...go to television? We've been over that. I showed a link showing why I can't go to Randi. Go to you? No, can't do that either.

And yes, there have been people to show telekinesis to scientist. Yet, you don't see it publicly. I guarantee you that there are scientist studying this.

And I'm not parading around saying how great I am, am I? I don't think so. I've never acted like I'm better than you or anyone...

Brandon

The Wig, so far you havent payed attention to ANYTHING I've said. I gave you LOTS of evidence and you havent even replied to it. And I think I heard you say earlier you tried it. Now you dont beleive it just because you couldnt get it to work? Just because you cant get it working doesnt mean its fake.

Originally Posted by Gumby123psi

The Wig, so far you havent payed attention to ANYTHING I've said. I gave you LOTS of evidence and you havent even replied to it.

I probably skipped over your posts. And no, I don't believe it because science says it doesn't exist. I don't believe it because it's counterintuitive. I don't believe it because humanity has existed for hundreds of thousands of years and there is ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE FOR IT. Here:

Originally Posted by Gumby123psi

Alright people. I promise I wont lie in any of this, but of course anybody can say that. I assure you I'm not though. I have experience in both LDing AND psionics. Theyre both real. There IS evedence of psionics too, and scientists ARE all over it. And also, somebody beat Randi's challenge. I've shown Magicdood my Psychokinesis live over a webcam. You can even ask him. He could be lying for me, but dont you think that seems a bit stupid? "Hey, will you help me fake PK to these people?". Yeah.. Do you think thered be so many websites all about a PsiOnline, UPC, and MUCH more. I've convinced skeptics too just by doing some live PK and maybe sending them a psiball. Whats the point of PSI Tech (http://www.psitech.net/) if theres no such thing as psi? Psi is even used to help out in the military. Theres even gov't documents on Remote Viewing. Now try to explain every one of these I have here. And if your looking for the government documents: http://www.theblackvault.com/modules...=true&pageID=9 You can even ask for these documents yourself.The only reason why people dont beleive in psionics is because they were brought up thinking its fake. People told you that your entire life. Eat it.

Oh you promise? Well screw it then, YOU'RE RIGHT!

In reality, no you're not. I don't know where this "evidence" is, but all you linked me to were biased sources. There was also a project that did time travel "hidden" by the government! OMGOMGOMGOMG! Wait, it was fake. Also, WHO beat Radni's challenge? And if you have a webcam, show me your evidence. Read my mind, remote view me. Believe me, I'd love for this kind of thing to be real. It'd be awesome. But, I just can't believe in something that makes no sense at all and has no scientific backing. Don't link to biased sources (even magicdood conceded that it doesn't help).

Get in contact with me if you can really show me you can do some shit. I used to know a guy who said he could remote view and astral project and what not, so I told him to do it to me. He said he couldn't. Maybe you can...but I doubt it.

The wig - give it up, not going anywhere, although I do 99% agree with you.

magicdood - I am seriously seeking out answers to whether there is any validity to your claims and others. So if you "guarantee that there are scientists studying it" then do you have links or some place to read about it? I would appreciate it.

Frankly, if one of the most famous (in the last 20 or 30 years) PKers can be made a complete fool of on national TV and proven to be BS, then why should we believe others? (referring to my earlier link)

And anyone who thinks that John Edward and other "psychics" are real, watch James Randi tear them a new asshole on youtube. Especially the chick who said the two missing children were dead and both turned up earlier this year. Really, really sad.

Originally Posted by magicdood

Ah, I see, my bad on the mis-interpretation. Except, it's not bullshit. you've never experienced it...Pk requires a clear mind. On t.v. or in front of people, your mind can't concentrate as well. It's takes more skill, more practice. So stop saying it's bullshit when you have no idea!

I understand your argument. I really do.

And I know you won't like my response, but that's fine. I'm not going on television cause 1. I'm too young. 2. No money. 3. parents. 4. I don't really care for the "fame" (hehe fame)

And no, that wouldn't be helping anyone out. First off, people would find ways to say I'm fake. Secondly, it would just cause conflict cause some might believe and others wouldn't. It would do more harm than good. And that is easily understandable, even for you. :p

How do you want me to provide evidence? With a video? Then you'll find ways to say that's fake...go to television? We've been over that. I showed a link showing why I can't go to Randi. Go to you? No, can't do that either.

And yes, there have been people to show telekinesis to scientist. Yet, you don't see it publicly. I guarantee you that there are scientist studying this.

And I'm not parading around saying how great I am, am I? I don't think so. I've never acted like I'm better than you or anyone...

Brandon

God damn it dude, if you're so great with psychic powers you can fucking cure the world. The effects of something like that are so far reaching it's ridiculous. You can't do it, stop pretending.

Seriously, you're only argument for you having these powers is "Well, I don't have to prove it to anyone, I can do it and that's that". If you don't have anything else to add, stop responding.

Yes I did. I know I wouldn't want biased sources being used against me. But, the black vault isn't a biased source. It is simply a person using the freedom of information act or something to get Government documents. They are actually Declassified Gov. Documents so at least that site isn't biased.

Promises now a days don't mean anything. I know they do for me, but for most people it's just another thing to say and not follow through with. It's a shame. Ruins a reputation, hehe.

I can understand how you don't believe in this. I do...but it's just like there is nothing I can do to convince you, and believe me, you won't convince me that I can't do it, since I've already done it, hah! So, let's stop arguing, kiss, make up and be bestest friends. Aside from the kissing...and stuff..how about you teach me to lucid dream cause I suck at it! haha

The point is, this argument is going nowhere. No, I'm not taking a cop-out, but there is nothing more for either of us to do/say.

Brandon

Originally Posted by Needcatscan

The wig - give it up, not going anywhere, although I do 99% agree with you.

magicdood - I am seriously seeking out answers to whether there is any validity to your claims and others. So if you "guarantee that there are scientists studying it" then do you have links or some place to read about it? I would appreciate it.

Frankly, if one of the most famous (in the last 20 or 30 years) PKers can be made a complete fool of on national TV and proven to be BS, then why should we believe others? (referring to my earlier link)

And anyone who thinks that John Edward and other "psychics" are real, watch James Randi tear them a new asshole on youtube. Especially the chick who said the two missing children were dead and both turned up earlier this year. Really, really sad.

And Sylvia Brown saying some lady's husband drowned to death...as a firefighter at 9/11.

Originally Posted by magicdood

Yes I did. I know I wouldn't want biased sources being used against me. But, the black vault isn't a biased source. It is simply a person using the freedom of information act or something to get Government documents. They are actually Declassified Gov. Documents so at least that site isn't biased.

Promises now a days don't mean anything. I know they do for me, but for most people it's just another thing to say and not follow through with. It's a shame. Ruins a reputation, hehe.

I can understand how you don't believe in this. I do...but it's just like there is nothing I can do to convince you, and believe me, you won't convince me that I can't do it, since I've already done it, hah! So, let's stop arguing, kiss, make up and be bestest friends. Aside from the kissing...and stuff..how about you teach me to lucid dream cause I suck at it! haha

The point is, this argument is going nowhere. No, I'm not taking a cop-out, but there is nothing more for either of us to do/say.

Brandon

I'm actually reading the black vault thing right now just because I find a lot of this stuff extremely interesting. I hold back beliefs in almost all of it, but for the most part it makes for an very interested read. I wouldn't go as far as to say it's unbiased (if it's one person, he might just happen to believe in all of this) but it's certainly better than a site dedicated to psi.

Well, they are government documents that are unedited..soo....no biased there. And yes, it's a great site! I love it!

Anyways, you can't just say one person is false because of the actions of others. So what, a few famous people were fakers. But guess what. It seems there is a connection. All the FAMOUS ones are fake. The real ones prefer to sit, practice, and help others. Just a theory right there, hehe.


As to the Scientist, there is a Scientist that has had numerous results with Psionics, including pk and energy manipulation currently attempting to prove psi with science. Although, personally I believe psionics occur on a different realm then the physical, so I don't believe it will be provable. However, that has no bearing on the subject at hand! If you go to Upconline.net, his name is ErikJDurwood2...he is very interesting to talk to!

Anyways, good luck,
Brandon