Thread: foolproof Instant WILD anytime ...

Originally Posted by Sir Mark

As someone who is experienced in the field of psychology as well as the effects of psycho - effective drugs, allow me to weigh in on this topic. While a dream and a hallucination are both sensory perceptions of stimuli that don't actually exist, a hallucination is also defined as a delusion, or a morbid error in thinking. A dream is simply one's unconscious mind "overpowering" our sense of logic which is suppressed during sleep. While it might seem bizarre and distorted in our reflection of it, it's actually very logical to our individual circumstances and experiences (though we might not necessarily understand why).
There is a basic principle of psychology that states any behavior which is reinforced will be repeated. There's a reason more people don't use Salvia. They have a negative response to it. The experience is not reinforcing, but rather disturbing and they don't repeat it. Pot, on the other hand, given any absence of negative consequences, is largely reinforced due to the sedation and social nature of the experience.
Ok, I'll get off my soapbox now and go back to doing RC's. Thanks for reading this.

You lost me at "experienced in the field of psychology".
The fact that you think hallucinations and delusions are the same reinforced that decision to disagree with you.
Hallucinations are things you experience that have no physical basis. But you can still tell that they aren't real.
Delusions are where you believe something is real when it really isn't for example believing in god. Or for the religious here that would disagree with that, another example would be convincing yourself that you can levitate objects with your mind.

Originally Posted by Advantageous Noodle

Personally I'd like to be able to LD on my own as using a chemical seems almost like cheating.

Who says you have to LD using chemicals?
It's your own choice. We're not forcing you to use drugs ffs.
LD 'on your own' all you want.

Originally Posted by Happiness is a Warm Gun

Actually tommo, I agree with everything in this post. In fact, as the person claiming that smoking enough salvia will cause people to immediately enter lucid dreams, it appears to be directly disagreeing with you. To clarify, I was complaining about the fact that you believe any post in the thread, regardless of topic, validates your opinion, rather than worrying about someone proving me wrong. I think you may be projecting

I have no idea what you're talking about here.

Originally Posted by NASCAR

I honestly don't care how long I had a dry spell or how much I wanted to LD. I WOULD NOT do this. Instead of an LD you could get an OD.

No, you couldn't "get an OD", Not possible. Never happened

Originally Posted by NASCAR

Really, STUPIDEST IDEA EVER. They really need to make this crap illegal.

Yeh, no ones smoking weed these days, no ones taking ecstasy every weekend at raves where other people are snorting speed and cocaine and later taking heroin.
It's people like you that I wish would just shut the fuck up, seriously. You don't want to do it so you don't want anyone else to do it either. WHY!?!?! Can you do me one favour and answer that.

Originally Posted by Happiness is a Warm Gun

Common sense, all medical research, and basic pharmacology .... bla bla bla

Please point me to any research done on Salvia.

Originally Posted by Happiness is a Warm Gun

E: I notice you've now described the use of salvia as both "not very risky" and "a risk." You might want to decide on one or the other, since the decision should affect whether you would blindly recommend the substance to others.

He said it's not risky in the sense of OD'ing but it can have negative mental side-effects if you aren't prepared.

Please note that if you look in a decent dictionary you will find that hallucinations are indeed a form of delusion. A dream, however, is not. I believe my point was that there are both similarities as well as differences between hallucinations and dreams. As a practicing mental health professional I do have some experience and knowledge and education, so while it might piss you off that there people who strongly disagree with your opinion, not all of them come from a position of ignorance.

Originally Posted by Sir Mark

Please note that if you look in a decent dictionary you will find that hallucinations are indeed a form of delusion. A dream, however, is not. I believe my point was that there are both similarities as well as differences between hallucinations and dreams. As a practicing mental health professional I do have some experience and knowledge and education, so while it might piss you off that there people who strongly disagree with your opinion, not all of them come from a position of ignorance.

What is not delusional or hallucinatory about dreams? Though I could say the same thing for waking life.

Just curious, do you have a degree or are you a self proclaimed therapist?

not too sure why this is such a controversial topic, hallucinating and dreaming are 2 very different and not even related things. This is a fact. In "exploring the world of", Laberge clearly states that in the dreaming world, you are dreaming exclusively because you have no external stimuli, and your mind creates its own world to entetain itself while you sleep. (basically.) DRUGS ARE MOST DEFINITELY AN EXTERNAL STIMULI. While the experience is somewhat like dreaming, (sort of, i didnt think so) it's not the same thing or even in the same ballpark as dreaming.

Originally Posted by DarthDallas

not too sure why this is such a controversial topic, hallucinating and dreaming are 2 very different and not even related things. This is a fact. In "exploring the world of", Laberge clearly states that in the dreaming world, you are dreaming exclusively because you have no external stimuli, and your mind creates its own world to entetain itself while you sleep. (basically.) DRUGS ARE MOST DEFINITELY AN EXTERNAL STIMULI. While the experience is somewhat like dreaming, (sort of, i didnt think so) it's not the same thing or even in the same ballpark as dreaming.

Hallucination:
"A hallucination, in the broadest sense, is a perception in the absence of a stimulus" wikipedia
"Perception of visual, auditory, tactile, olfactory, or gustatory experiences without an external stimulus" american heritage dictionary

You got it backwards.

If drugs were considered an external stimuli then only dreams could be considered hallucinations.

Maybe hallucinogens should be called illusionogens.

Originally Posted by Sir Mark

Please note that if you look in a decent dictionary you will find that hallucinations are indeed a form of delusion. A dream, however, is not. I believe my point was that there are both similarities as well as differences between hallucinations and dreams. As a practicing mental health professional I do have some experience and knowledge and education, so while it might piss you off that there people who strongly disagree with your opinion, not all of them come from a position of ignorance.

By 'decent dictionary' I assume you mean DSM-IV? (No idea whether that states they are the same btw so don't flame me for a joke)
EDIT: Even psychology seems to have it right "A delusion is commonly defined as a fixed false belief and is used in everyday language to describe a belief that is either false, fanciful or derived from deception. In psychiatry, the definition is necessarily more precise and implies that the belief is pathological (the result of an illness or illness process). As a pathology it is distinct from a belief based on false or incomplete information or certain effects of perception which would more properly be termed an apperception or illusion."

I think you're getting confused highly between the two.
Someone that is hallucinating could believe that these experiences are real and therefore they would be 'delusional'. But it is not really ever the case when taking 'hallucinogens' with a few exceptions. So dreaming would actually be more like a delusion than a hallucination.
Also as lucid4sho states, external stimuli does not mean a foreign substance. Stimuli is tactile sensations or senses.

Without any hate or pointless criticism whatsoever I think you need to check the dictionary a bit more yourself and maybe do a bit more training because you seem to have a very twisted view of this subject and if you are in fact a trained 'mental health professional' or whatever you could actually harm someone using misinformation. Don't rely on your brain for dictionary definitions, our memory is extremely fallible.

Originally Posted by lucid4sho

Hallucination:
"A hallucination, in the broadest sense, is a perception in the absence of a stimulus" wikipedia
"Perception of visual, auditory, tactile, olfactory, or gustatory experiences without an external stimulus" american heritage dictionary

You got it backwards.

If drugs were considered an external stimuli then only dreams could be considered hallucinations.

Maybe hallucinogens should be called illusionogens.

I was going to say that.
Barely any 'hallucinogenic' drugs can actually be called hallucinogens because you are actually just perceiving the world differently. But as I understand it there are very few, such as DMT that completely shut off the outside world, or, stimuli. I think that is why most mind explorers choose now to call them entheogens. Not sure what that means.

Originally Posted by lucid4sho

Just curious, do you have a degree or are you a self proclaimed therapist?

I'm guessing self-proclaimed or that he is under the delusion he actually has a degree (Again a JOKE)