Thread: What if we lose the ability?

Originally Posted by Amethyst Star

Lucid dreaming is "taught," either by focused conscious effort or through personal experience, in the same way learning that a stove-top is hot (you can either hear about it from someone, or burn yourself).

My theory on dreams has to deal with importance.

This seems fairly congruent with what I've heard while talking to many "natural" lucid dreamers. An often recurring theme is that they used to be plagued by terrible nightmares - something which I'm sure was a very important issue to them at the time - and it was through these experiences that they learned to consistently recognize the dream state.

Although, on the other hand...

Originally Posted by Amethyst Star

Someone who is naturally talented with math isn't going to suddenly start spouting off the quadratic equation without some instruction.

It has happened.

Anyway, it's undoubtedly a combination of both, but it seems likely that "nurture" is a bigger factor.

Originally Posted by DuB

This seems fairly congruent with what I've heard while talking to many "natural" lucid dreamers. An often recurring theme is that they used to be plagued by terrible nightmares - something which I'm sure was a very important issue to them at the time - and it was through these experiences that they learned to consistently recognize the dream state.

Although, on the other hand...It has happened.

Anyway, it's undoubtedly a combination of both, but it seems likely that "nurture" is a bigger factor.

I'm sorry, I just have to say... YOUR AVATAR IS SO COOL!

i actually think lucid dreaming will increase. with helpful products like the Nova Dreamer, i think more people will be able to lucid dream. and i think interest is slowely spreading. like if i talk about lucid dreaming to 7 people and 2 find it interesting, the idea is spreading.

Originally Posted by DuB

An often recurring theme is that they used to be plagued by terrible nightmares - something which I'm sure was a very important issue to them at the time - and it was through these experiences that they learned to consistently recognize the dream state.

But I was also plagued by nightmares, and never recognized the dream state. What does that mean? And I have loved dreaming my entire life. You'd think it'd be easier for me to become lucid, especially with the large amounts of time I spend asleep and dreaming and in that dream state! I suck hahaha

Originally Posted by i make it rain

i actually think lucid dreaming will increase. with helpful products like the Nova Dreamer, i think more people will be able to lucid dream. and i think interest is slowely spreading. like if i talk about lucid dreaming to 7 people and 2 find it interesting, the idea is spreading.

My mom (who loves dreaming too, we always talk about my attempts to LD and she actually had one the other night because of that) was on a blind date with an extremely boring guy. After exhausting how one anothers' food was, she asked him, "So what do you think about lucid dreaming? Have you ever had one?" and he responded, "Oh, yes! I mean, I think so. What is that?" hahaha Maybe the next guy she talks to hahaha

Originally Posted by Shift

My mom (who loves dreaming too, we always talk about my attempts to LD and she actually had one the other night because of that) was on a blind date with an extremely boring guy. After exhausting how one anothers' food was, she asked him, "So what do you think about lucid dreaming? Have you ever had one?" and he responded, "Oh, yes! I mean, I think so. What is that?" hahaha Maybe the next guy she talks to hahaha

we LDers should start a "pay it forward" thing. every person we tell about LDing should be required to tell someone else. haha.

We just all have to be sure our reproductive mates are good at lucid dreaming. That would be a fun question for the first date.

Originally Posted by Robot_Butler

We just all have to be sure our reproductive mates are good at lucid dreaming. That would be a fun question for the first date.

hahaha, exactly

Originally Posted by Robot_Butler

We just all have to be sure our reproductive mates are good at lucid dreaming. That would be a fun question for the first date.

If we're keeping lucid dreaming alive, hypothetically, it would be best to set up non-lucid dreamers with lucid dreamers because if at least one parent LDs their offspring can learn of it.

Originally Posted by luciddream

If we're keeping lucid dreaming alive, hypothetically, it would be best to set up non-lucid dreamers with lucid dreamers because if at least one parent LDs their offspring can learn of it.

Well, only if the ability to lucid dream is a dominant trait! If it's recessive, you'd want 2 LDers. There's the chance you could have a heterozygote, but if it's recessive you'd want to just have two homozygotes for maximum probability.

Of course, look at polydactylism haha

Originally Posted by Shift

Well, only if the ability to lucid dream is a dominant trait! If it's recessive, you'd want 2 LDers. There's the chance you could have a heterozygote, but if it's recessive you'd want to just have two homozygotes for maximum probability.

Of course, look at polydactylism haha

i think he assumed that LDing is not hereditary, but as long as a member of a family can do it, he or she can maybe get the rest interested.

Originally Posted by i make it rain

i think he assumed that LDing is not hereditary, but as long as a member of a family can do it, he or she can maybe get the rest interested.

Oh haha, I thought we were still talking about "breeding" lucid dreamers

I think it really depends on the people, though. My dad is a natural, but never told me until recently, when I explained that I'd experienced something called lucid dreaming and was trying to learn it. My sister is also a natural, but neither one of them is particularly interested in it. In fact my mom, who has had only a few, loves dreaming and is a vivid dreamer like me, and I think she's motivated me more than the other two, but I think mainly because I'm the one who is always talking to her about dreaming! And my brother never remembers his dreams, and is not particularly interested in dreaming at all. I think it depends on your personality, more than anything.

Originally Posted by Idolfan

As far as I can see, animals that dream are designed to forget them as a key survivial mechanism.

That's unfounded blahblah. It is not even known if animals dream at all.

Originally Posted by Idolfan

This clearly comes from the days when we were too stupid to distinguish them from reality.

Is that so? And what makes you think dreams are not real? What makes you think that this moment in which you are reading this response is more real? There is no indication.

Originally Posted by Idolfan

I have confidence that plenty of mammals may be able to tell them apart too, but still, advanced as we are, it seems a miracle we can remember dreams at all if this is the case. LDing is an amazing thing, but unfortionately the majority of people don't see it this way.

That's because they were indoctrinated that dreams are unreal farts of the subconscious and that this commonly shared environment that is defined by science is more real. The same indoctrination that seems to apply to you as well. We may have to deal with this reality, but it's not the only one we exist in and I'm not doing esoterics here. The priests of old times have been replaced by modern scientists. What do they have in common? They can only make up theories based on axiomatic belief systems but they simply cannot explain anything. It just happens that society accepts them more than priests today. That wasn't always the case and it doesn't make much of a difference.

Originally Posted by Idolfan

Possibly over time, what if people were to completely lose the ability to LD? It's unlikely, but still possible. Seeing as few people care about it it's not hard to imagine the technique may be lost. As our minds advance (or not, it's probably going the other way), the ability to remember dreams or even be conscious in them could just fade away.

Scary thought?

What if we all get blind or start laying eggs or get born with additional nipples in our armpits?

"REM sleep decreases as you get older" says science. REM sleep is highly correlated with dreaming.

Originally Posted by Idolfan

As far as I can see, animals that dream are designed to forget them as a key survivial mechanism. This clearly comes from the days when we were too stupid to distinguish them from reality. I have confidence that plenty of mammals may be able to tell them apart too, but still, advanced as we are, it seems a miracle we can remember dreams at all if this is the case. LDing is an amazing thing, but unfortionately the majority of people don't see it this way.

Possibly over time, what if people were to completely lose the ability to LD? It's unlikely, but still possible. Seeing as few people care about it it's not hard to imagine the technique may be lost. As our minds advance (or not, it's probably going the other way), the ability to remember dreams or even be conscious in them could just fade away.

Scary thought?

Interesting, but how I look at it as I don't think animals LD. I mean, we got it for a reason. I doubt many people before we discovered did it. More people are discovering LDing as in forever. I don't think its going away.

Originally Posted by psychology student

"REM sleep decreases as you get older" says science. REM sleep is highly correlated with dreaming.

No, it isn't. That's what was believed in the not so distant past. Usually people can recall dreams from lighter sleep states more easily though. That may have caused that assumption. A lot of factors take influence on memory though.

Yes, REM sleep is highly correlated with dreaming. That is not to say that REM causes dreaming, or that dreaming cannot occur without REM.

I am aware of the recent developments in research that say that dreaming may be caused by frontal brain areas. Also, that it may be closely related to Dopamine levels as opposed to Pons activity and REM sleep. Notwithstanding, this does not negate my initial statement.

Originally Posted by psychology student

Yes, REM sleep is highly correlated with dreaming. That is not to say that REM causes dreaming, or that dreaming cannot occur without REM.

I am aware of the recent developments in research that say that dreaming may be caused by frontal brain areas. Also, that it may be closely related to Dopamine levels as opposed to Pons activity and REM sleep. Notwithstanding, this does not negate my initial statement.

Well, sleep in general is highly correlated with dreaming and older people tend to sleep less. So what? Why exactly did you mention the REM phase in the context of this thread? And why exactly do you repeat the other information given above? You feel like you have to prove anything?

Dreams occur more often in REM than in any other type of sleep. This was relevant because REM and subsequently dreaming decline with age, hence "What if we lose the ability"