Thread: Senses Initiated Lucid Dream (SSILD)

Originally Posted by Xanous

Yeah! I think that's good advice. I like it. Thanks.

I probably use Sunday and Monday nights for stlye #2 to re-coop since I typically use Galantamine only on the weekend. Then, if I feel up to it start style #1 back up after.

I usually have a period of insomnia with Galantamine. Would it be useful to do continuous cycles while waiting to sleep or would that keep my mind too active?

It takes approximately an hour before Galantamine crosses the blood-brain barrier. Therefore, if you encounter insomnia right after taking it it's probably psychological. In order to avoid colliding into the Galantamine effect I usually return to bed right away and start working on SSILD. A few quick cycles should calm you down easily and follow with a couple of very focused slow cycles to see if you can spot some hypnagogic sensations. After that just roll over and go to sleep -- don't try too hard though, you don't want to focus on falling asleep because that will just backfire. You don't have to fall asleep with getting an LD as the last thought on your mind. It will just happen. Have faith!

Originally Posted by CosmicIron

It takes approximately an hour before Galantamine crosses the blood-brain barrier. Therefore, if you encounter insomnia right after taking it it's probably psychological. In order to avoid colliding into the Galantamine effect I usually return to bed right away and start working on SSILD. A few quick cycles should calm you down easily and follow with a couple of very focused slow cycles to see if you can spot some hypnagogic sensations. After that just roll over and go to sleep -- don't try too hard though, you don't want to focus on falling asleep because that will just backfire. You don't have to fall asleep with getting an LD as the last thought on your mind. It will just happen. Have faith!

Great advice. I'll keep it in mind.

Originally Posted by CosmicIron

Brandon, I highly suspect your example is a special case. I have a very interesting observation, both from my own experience and others, about dreams within which we develop and use super powers. It appears that we often have super-powered dreams (flying, telekinesis, mind control... you name it) when we are approaching lucidity. That's right, those failed LD attempt often turn into super powers in dreams, and that even happens to people who have no clue or interests in this kind of things! One hypothesis is that when we gain more self-consciousness within a dream, we start to want certain things to happen. If in normal dreams we are rookie actors and actresses who simply carry out the director (unconscious)'s will, then in this case we become the more creative ones and start to improvise a bit on our own. The dream world in turn respond to our mental command, and that manifest into super powers.

As for carrying things into our dreams, I'm not ruling out everything. There are of course things that we can carry into our dreams, for example, those that cause strong impact, desires, anxieties, etc. However, they are not your regular "habits". And in fact, I believe their effectiveness diminishes once developed into habits. Now back to ADA. Trying to stay aware all the time is definitely not something that creates strong psychological impact. Even if it is, it differs from the the basic premise of ADA -- being highly aware of the surroundings can be trained into a "habit" and carried into dreams. LOL if that is true then a highly trained spy like Jason Bourn is most likely to have lucid dreams all the time, right?

I have nothing against ADA or similar type of techniques. People are free to choose whatever works best for them. However, I am a little disappointed by the fact that many people consider ADA the ultimate, almost holy grail like, technique, without ever questioning the theories behind it. I don't doubt ADA can supplement your LD techniques, but it doesn't seem to me all that effective by itself. Yet its theories tend to suggest otherwise, and people also like to interpret it that way. If ADA was to truly meet this claim, then the benchmark should look like this -- consistent lucidity every night within every dream (including NREM ones) without the aid of any other techniques. Unfortunately, I have not seen a single person who can claim this, not even highly skilled Tibetan dream yoga practitioners.

Hmmm... makes sense to me. I became lucid 10 times before ever trying to in my life. This seemed random enough. Normally nightmares, nothing like realizing you are in a nightmare and not knowing how to wake yourself up. Took me a minute or so. Or when playing too much with the snooze bar, haha. The constant waking up and going to sleep caused me to go lucid a few times.

I think the Jason Bourne part makes a lot of sense as well,
Because when you said that I thought "why would that make him lucid?" And then I thought, "oh! His tech basically is ADA without the intent to LD. Makes sense!"

I do not think of ADA as the god of techniques, I have always thought that all techniques work just as well. meaning that they can all get you lucid. The difference is that some might not work for you as well as others. SSILD is pretty much looking to prove me wrong, it looks like the success rates are ridiculously high.

Do you find it harder to SSILD if you go to bed late even if you are getting enough sleep? Or if you are running on less sleep than normal from the previous day?

One of my big things for LDing is "never go to sleep too tired" Because I think that when you sleep without enough sleep, your mind goes into a deeper sleep most of the time making you less aware. My problem now is that I can't prove myself wrong on this because my confidence lowers a lot. So it would be nice to change my expectations on this and raise my confidence.

Originally Posted by BrandonBoss

Hmmm... makes sense to me. I became lucid 10 times before ever trying to in my life. This seemed random enough. Normally nightmares, nothing like realizing you are in a nightmare and not knowing how to wake yourself up. Took me a minute or so. Or when playing too much with the snooze bar, haha. The constant waking up and going to sleep caused me to go lucid a few times.

I think the Jason Bourne part makes a lot of sense as well,
Because when you said that I thought "why would that make him lucid?" And then I thought, "oh! His tech basically is ADA without the intent to LD. Makes sense!"

I do not think of ADA as the god of techniques, I have always thought that all techniques work just as well. meaning that they can all get you lucid. The difference is that some might not work for you as well as others. SSILD is pretty much looking to prove me wrong, it looks like the success rates are ridiculously high.

Do you find it harder to SSILD if you go to bed late even if you are getting enough sleep? Or if you are running on less sleep than normal from the previous day?

One of my big things for LDing is "never go to sleep too tired" Because I think that when you sleep without enough sleep, your mind goes into a deeper sleep most of the time making you less aware. My problem now is that I can't prove myself wrong on this because my confidence lowers a lot. So it would be nice to change my expectations on this and raise my confidence.

I'm glad you had an open mind on this subject. I really think it is time for the lucid dreaming community to start drawing more inspirations from modern science instead of embracing on ancient/occult systems without much preservation. There are also a lot of myth, exaggerated or misrepresented facts, camouflage, and so on in the field of lucid dreaming and related topics, and I think it is time to look at them from more critical perspectives -- revealing them instead of adding to them.

I used to think the same as your "all techniques work just as well" statement, but not anymore. In our lives there are better and worse approaches, routes, methods, and so on, why should "lucid dreaming techniques" differ? In fact I think some of the techniques are downright tedious, overrated, and misleading. This is kinda like in martial arts. Before UFC put them in a ring, everyone claimed "there is no better technique, it all depends on the person who is using the technique." And guess what? Brazilian Jiu Jitsu simply proved them wrong and made laughingstocks of so many self-claimed "masters." It was only then the martial arts community started looking at "traditions" from a whole new perspective. Bad for the old schools, but certainly good for the advancement of martial arts in general.

As for your question. I do find it in general harder to LD (not just SSILD) if I go to bed late or not being well rested. There are exceptions of course. There are various conditions that are well-suited for LD and OBE to occur, and REM sleep is just one of these. It is probably the most common ones though.

I had, and still do have, a lot of confidence in this method. First 3 days I got lucid twice. Lately though I fall back asleep WAY too fast, I think before I even finish one cycle. How do you suggest getting or keeping oneself awake enough to do enough cycles to have any effect, without going overboard?
I probably need to learn to concentrate better too...

Originally Posted by CosmicIron

I'm glad you had an open mind on this subject. I really think it is time for the lucid dreaming community to start drawing more inspirations from modern science instead of embracing on ancient/occult systems without much preservation. There are also a lot of myth, exaggerated or misrepresented facts, camouflage, and so on in the field of lucid dreaming and related topics, and I think it is time to look at them from more critical perspectives -- revealing them instead of adding to them.

I used to think the same as your "all techniques work just as well" statement, but not anymore. In our lives there are better and worse approaches, routes, methods, and so on, why should "lucid dreaming techniques" differ? In fact I think some of the techniques are downright tedious, overrated, and misleading. This is kinda like in martial arts. Before UFC put them in a ring, everyone claimed "there is no better technique, it all depends on the person who is using the technique." And guess what? Brazilian Jiu Jitsu simply proved them wrong and made laughingstocks of so many self-claimed "masters." It was only then the martial arts community started looking at "traditions" from a whole new perspective. Bad for the old schools, but certainly good for the advancement of martial arts in general.

As for your question. I do find it in general harder to LD (not just SSILD) if I go to bed late or not being well rested. There are exceptions of course. There are various conditions that are well-suited for LD and OBE to occur, and REM sleep is just one of these. It is probably the most common ones though.

I am still glad I did the other techniques now though, because it got me a lot better at the ideas this one has. Like waking up in the middle of the night with no alarm multiple times.

You said that this technique is now 100% for you, does this mean that you get lucid every time you try? Or does it mean every night?

I am always open for new techniques. I think that even if all techniques worked, it just depended on the person, then you would still need to try new ones just in case you are uber better at the new one. I also have wanted science to come out with something to 100% LDs, because it makes the entire community better.

I hope that every technique I try will be the 100% technique I am looking for.

Originally Posted by Matt1

I had, and still do have, a lot of confidence in this method. First 3 days I got lucid twice. Lately though I fall back asleep WAY too fast, I think before I even finish one cycle. How do you suggest getting or keeping oneself awake enough to do enough cycles to have any effect, without going overboard?
I probably need to learn to concentrate better too...

Based on my own experience and the posts in this thread, it seems like what you do during the WBTB portion of the technique is what you should focus on.

If you are falling asleep too fast, stay up a little longer and do something to wake you up, like stretching or checking your email.

If you are too awake, spend less time out of bed or don't get up altogether.


The key is to experiment and try to find a sweet spot. Perhaps the sweet spot changes from day to day and you just need to get familiar with how the right level of alertness "feels" when you wake up in the morning.

I was wondering if maybe it would be okay to get out of bed and maybe do the cycles in a comfy chair or seat you can relax fully in, then go straight back to the bed and fall asleep while doing the cycles again? This seems to me like a good way to make sure all the cycles, including the long ones, get done, before falling asleep. What do you think?

I think you should try it a half dozen times and post your results.

Originally Posted by Matt1

I was wondering if maybe it would be okay to get out of bed and maybe do the cycles in a comfy chair or seat you can relax fully in, then go straight back to the bed and fall asleep while doing the cycles again? This seems to me like a good way to make sure all the cycles, including the long ones, get done, before falling asleep. What do you think?

Very interesting... no one hasn't tried that yet.

Alright, I'm going to try that a little and if it's promising, keep it up. It seems in my experience and what I've seen in a few others' accounts that the effects of SSILD on dream vividness and lucidity are greater the more of the cycles you complete, so I just need to not fall asleep too soon. I'll post about it in the 30 days test thread.

Matt1, I tried your chair thing. It didn't gave me lucidity, but it did give me a false awakening in wich I asked myself whether I was sleeping. I got no lucidity because I paid no attention to the RC and immediately woke up afterwards.

i tried this at 6pm but it took me waaay too long.. i kept having micro sleeps which made me forget where i was.. over and over.. on 1 cycle it took me 5 minutes on the quick cycle

i eventually finished it then went to sleep but... no dream at all

You know, when you get those random thoughts during the cycles sometimes, is it possible to get those random thoughts in FA in the same manner as when awake? I had assumed that such thoughts would be vivid and perceptible when asleep or dreaming, not just thoughts, if that makes any sense, but I could be wrong.

Also I've assumed I did not go directly into FA because I could feel my whole body exactly the same as when awake. Should I still do a reality check (and possibly cancel out some of the good effects of SSILD by moving, if that is possible)?

Originally Posted by Matt1

You know, when you get those random thoughts during the cycles sometimes, is it possible to get those random thoughts in FA in the same manner as when awake? I had assumed that such thoughts would be vivid and perceptible when asleep or dreaming, not just thoughts, if that makes any sense, but I could be wrong.

Also I've assumed I did not go directly into FA because I could feel my whole body exactly the same as when awake. Should I still do a reality check (and possibly cancel out some of the good effects of SSILD by moving, if that is possible)?

Usually in an FA our thoughts can immediately turn into images like you've said. However, there is something peculiar about some of the FAs generated by SSILD. They can be so realistic that no amount of visualization will work, and if you focus too much on your physical body you WILL wake up seamlessly and move your physical body instead. This type of FAs usually happens when you feel you are waking up frequently. I suggest you read my other post about Focus Point, which might help when encountering this kind of FAs next time.

I've been repeating my same procedure but cannot replicate my previous success. I do the cycles and my mind wanders but I manage to finish, then I go to sleep and wake up a few hours later without remembering any dreams.

Any advice?

Originally Posted by bluremi

I've been repeating my same procedure but cannot replicate my previous success. I do the cycles and my mind wanders but I manage to finish, then I go to sleep and wake up a few hours later without remembering any dreams.

Any advice?

Did you get up and allow yourself to stay awake for a while? Anyway, take a look at this post. I think it might help: http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...ml#post1988470

This weekend I got my second lucid dream by using this method! A lot more vivid than the last one

Aside from the times I become lucid, the cycles have an unusual effect on me that I thought I would share.

Normally when I sleep or used to sleep without doing any cycles, no matter how long I slept, it felt like time had passed, especially if there had been a vivid or aware dream. If I fell back asleep at, say, 3:00, no matter if I woke up at 3:30, 4:00, 5:00, or later, I would remember trying to fall asleep, that I was asleep for an unknown length of time, I dreamed something or other maybe, and here I am.

When I do the cycles, even if rather poorly, not good enough to have a lucid dream, what will happen is I am either doing the cycles or trying to fall asleep afterward for what feels like 5 minutes or less, then suddenly I am fully awake (and not in FA either). I look at my clock fully expecting only 5 minutes to have passed, but it has actually been anywhere from 20 to 90 minutes. Then if I try I can maybe remember a dream from this passed time.

--My Personal Theory--

Generally when I do the cycles I figure that if I wake up after this, I will just try them again, which is good. I find though that on days where I expect I have to get up at a certain time (most days), no matter how much later, this problem occurs, of waking up too soon. I think because I expect subconsciously to have to wake up for the day at a certain time, and to have to have more awakenings in between to try the cycles, my brain wakes me up. I also theorize that this expectation causes the cycles to increase awareness, not in the midst of a dream as I want, but to actually wake me up, because that is I what I expect. That the cycles are causing the awakenings I think explains both the timing and the nature of them.

Still since it is having an effect on me, I believe the cycles to be an effective method of inducing lucid dreams, not to mention that it also works for many to cause quick, vivid WILDs. Now I just need to get myself to not wake up too much so I can get lucid dreams and not these time warp awakenings.

tl;dr Cycles cause me to sleep without feeling any time has passed. The cycles may be waking me up through subconscious expectation to wake up later rather than causing lucidity as desired.

I've been doing SSILD for a while now - not sure, maybe a week and a half? No lucidity for the first few days, then went into a period of terrible recall and being too tired to even think about SSILDing that lasted like a week. That seems to be abating now, and last night I tried SSILD again and got lucid briefly just as I was waking up. Did a few SSILD cycles during a short WBTW (just went to the bathroom - I drank a big cup of water before bed and set my intention to wake after each dream and to realize I'm dreaming). Then I just rolled over and went to sleep and had a few weird dreams, and at the end of one I went lucid briefly. SSILDed again a few times and tried to get back to sleep, think I did fall asleep briefly once and a few times I saw dreams beginning to form but then they'd pop like bubbles.

Got my first LD using SSILD. This technique does wonders.

It has not worked for me after my initial success. I am still experimenting to find out what works.

Right now I'm focusing on staying awake during WBTB longer so that I don't drift away in the middle of the cycles. I find myself stopping and starting once they get to the long cycle stage, I think these interruptions are hurting the effectiveness of the technique.

Originally Posted by bluremi

It has not worked for me after my initial success. I am still experimenting to find out what works.

Right now I'm focusing on staying awake during WBTB longer so that I don't drift away in the middle of the cycles. I find myself stopping and starting once they get to the long cycle stage, I think these interruptions are hurting the effectiveness of the technique.

Staying awake longer will definitely help, but you also need to be more aware of the FAs. Do you find yourself waking up many times after the exercise? If you do, chances are some of those awakenings were FAs.

Im not sure about this....i have 3 or + awakenings per night, can i repeat SSILD cycles on different awakenings ?