• Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views




    Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
    Results 1 to 25 of 54
    Like Tree12Likes

    Thread: What are Angels or Demons?

    1. #1
      D.V. Editor-in-Chief Original Poster's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 2006
      LD Count
      Lucid Now
      Gender
      Location
      3D
      Posts
      8,263
      Likes
      4140
      DJ Entries
      11

      What are Angels or Demons?

      Perhaps they deserve two different threads since their roles in the universe are probably very different. But they're cast in the same light which is basically the only mythological creatures that survived mankind's transition to monotheism. You can claim that lots of mythology "survived" monotheism such as vampires and witchcraft but Angels are the only mythological being or superstition to survive monotheism on the good team. Every original symbol that predates the church became and emblem of Satan. Demons, whatever their actual origin was, became soldiers of Satan. Angels, whatever the truth behind their legend, became soldiers of God. These creatures were not invented along with Monotheism, they already existed as superstition and were glombed onto Monotheism's dualistic dichotomy.

      So in your opinion, what is the true nature of these entities? I don't know much about demons but I know Angels are in a lot of mythology across the planet. The term itself means messenger from its Latin and Hebrew roots but aside from that there are Fravashi in Zoroastrianism and Dakini in Tibetan Buddhism.
      Last edited by Omnis Dei; 09-20-2011 at 08:52 PM.
      Erii likes this.

      Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.


    2. #2
      Diamonds And Rust Achievements:
      Veteran First Class Vivid Dream Journal Referrer Bronze Populated Wall Made lots of Friends on DV Tagger First Class 10000 Hall Points
      Darkmatters's Avatar
      Join Date
      Dec 2009
      Gender
      Location
      Center of the universe
      Posts
      6,949
      Likes
      5848
      DJ Entries
      172
      Archetypes. Messengers from the unconscious.

    3. #3
      Member Achievements:
      Made lots of Friends on DV Populated Wall Tagger First Class Created Dream Journal Referrer Silver 1000 Hall Points Veteran First Class

      Join Date
      Apr 2011
      Posts
      1,056
      Likes
      697
      DJ Entries
      8
      Angels = Tooth fairies.

      Demons = Investment bankers.
      mcwillis and tsiouz like this.

    4. #4
      Finding the way... Achievements:
      Created Dream Journal Tagger First Class Made lots of Friends on DV Referrer Bronze 5000 Hall Points Veteran First Class
      Arch's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jan 2011
      Gender
      Location
      England
      Posts
      1,573
      Likes
      414
      DJ Entries
      63
      Angels = Good
      Demons = Bad

      How boring, ha!

    5. #5
      Banned
      Join Date
      Jul 2006
      Gender
      Location
      ʇsǝɹɔpooʍ
      Posts
      3,207
      Likes
      176
      Demons are Angels also but fallen ones. They are basically unclean spirits who are opposed to God and His works.

    6. #6
      D.V. Editor-in-Chief Original Poster's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 2006
      LD Count
      Lucid Now
      Gender
      Location
      3D
      Posts
      8,263
      Likes
      4140
      DJ Entries
      11
      Quote Originally Posted by Ne-yo View Post
      Demons are Angels also but fallen ones. They are basically unclean spirits who are opposed to God and His works.
      Elaborate. I mean I know that's what they teach you at Sunday School but the contradictions are a bit much for me. If an angel has the will to oppose God, how is it different from a human? If Satan, for instance, rebelled against God and got sent to hell as punishment, then why does he rule hell? Why is he still active on earth causing gays and shit?

      Satan, according to the Secret Teachings of All Ages, is an angel, not a demon. He does not command demons, he does not have anything to do with real demonology which stands apart from Christianity in the root mythology. Satan is not even a fallen angel so much as just the Adversary, the Angel of Purifying Light.

      Demons, on the other hand, are parasites that feed off fear. Many an Astral Traveler has encountered dark entities out there. They do not have any real power, I've never heard of a single astral death. But that's the point, attention is energy, if you're fostering attention out of fear, you're feeding whatever is terrifying you.

      Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.


    7. #7
      Member
      Join Date
      Jun 2011
      Gender
      Posts
      12
      Likes
      3
      There is no difference. They are both imaginary creatures.
      BLUELINE976 likes this.

    8. #8
      Diamonds And Rust Achievements:
      Veteran First Class Vivid Dream Journal Referrer Bronze Populated Wall Made lots of Friends on DV Tagger First Class 10000 Hall Points
      Darkmatters's Avatar
      Join Date
      Dec 2009
      Gender
      Location
      Center of the universe
      Posts
      6,949
      Likes
      5848
      DJ Entries
      172
      Quote Originally Posted by sleepygnome View Post
      There is no difference. They are both imaginary creatures.

      ... says the gnome...

    9. #9
      Banned
      Join Date
      Jul 2006
      Gender
      Location
      ʇsǝɹɔpooʍ
      Posts
      3,207
      Likes
      176
      Quote Originally Posted by Omnis Dei View Post
      Elaborate.
      Elaborate on what exactly? It's pretty cut and dry. Demons are Angels that opposes God and all of his works as I stated earlier. Try not to get into semantics too much.

    10. #10
      D.V. Editor-in-Chief Original Poster's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 2006
      LD Count
      Lucid Now
      Gender
      Location
      3D
      Posts
      8,263
      Likes
      4140
      DJ Entries
      11
      Quote Originally Posted by Ne-yo View Post
      Elaborate on what exactly? It's pretty cut and dry. Demons are Angels that opposes God and all of his works as I stated earlier. Try not to get into semantics too much.
      You need to elaborate on what God is, what his works are, what about his works these angels are opposing, etc...

      This thread is meant for semantics, among other things. You have a right to your opinion but I don't know how to respond to an unsupported opinion. You don't have to care that I can't respond, of course. But we could have an actual discussion on the nature of angels and demons if we did away with circular logic.

      Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.


    11. #11
      Banned
      Join Date
      Jul 2006
      Gender
      Location
      ʇsǝɹɔpooʍ
      Posts
      3,207
      Likes
      176
      Quote Originally Posted by Omnis Dei View Post
      You need to elaborate on what God is, what his works are, what about his works these angels are opposing, etc...
      You didn't ask who or what God is initially now did you? Your thread is titled "What are Angels and Demons". I've already explained who and what they are. Now as far as who or what is God, Here let me google that for you.

    12. #12
      D.V. Editor-in-Chief Original Poster's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 2006
      LD Count
      Lucid Now
      Gender
      Location
      3D
      Posts
      8,263
      Likes
      4140
      DJ Entries
      11
      Quote Originally Posted by Ne-yo View Post
      You didn't ask who or what God is initially now did you? Your thread is titled "What are Angels and Demons". I've already explained who and what they are. Now as far as who or what is God, Here let me google that for you.
      Which God are you referring to?

      Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.


    13. #13
      Diamonds And Rust Achievements:
      Veteran First Class Vivid Dream Journal Referrer Bronze Populated Wall Made lots of Friends on DV Tagger First Class 10000 Hall Points
      Darkmatters's Avatar
      Join Date
      Dec 2009
      Gender
      Location
      Center of the universe
      Posts
      6,949
      Likes
      5848
      DJ Entries
      172
      Here it comes.... wait for it...


    14. #14
      Banned
      Join Date
      Jul 2006
      Gender
      Location
      ʇsǝɹɔpooʍ
      Posts
      3,207
      Likes
      176
      Quote Originally Posted by Omnis Dei View Post
      Which God are you referring to?
      The God of Abraham.

    15. #15
      D.V. Editor-in-Chief Original Poster's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 2006
      LD Count
      Lucid Now
      Gender
      Location
      3D
      Posts
      8,263
      Likes
      4140
      DJ Entries
      11
      Quote Originally Posted by Ne-yo View Post
      The God of Abraham.
      Right but there are many levels of understanding of this God. Take a look at this http://www.cook-greuter.com/draft/AQ...r%20%20v10.pdf

      Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.


    16. #16
      Banned
      Join Date
      Jul 2006
      Gender
      Location
      ʇsǝɹɔpooʍ
      Posts
      3,207
      Likes
      176
      ok and?

    17. #17
      Terminally Out of Phase Descensus's Avatar
      Join Date
      Nov 2006
      Gender
      Posts
      2,246
      Likes
      831
      They're imaginary supernaturalist constructs sometimes used to explain phenomena in the absence of scientific rigor. Also the title for a book by Dan Brown that I've never read.
      Ne-yo and LikesToTrip like this.
      The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended. - Frédéric Bastiat
      I try to deny myself any illusions or delusions, and I think that this perhaps entitles me to try and deny the same to others, at least as long as they refuse to keep their fantasies to themselves. - Christopher Hitchens
      Formerly known as BLUELINE976

    18. #18
      D.V. Editor-in-Chief Original Poster's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 2006
      LD Count
      Lucid Now
      Gender
      Location
      3D
      Posts
      8,263
      Likes
      4140
      DJ Entries
      11
      Quote Originally Posted by BLUELINE976 View Post
      They're imaginary supernaturalist constructs sometimes used to explain phenomena in the absence of scientific rigor. Also the title for a book by Dan Brown that I've never read.
      How amber of you

      Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.


    19. #19
      Banned
      Join Date
      Jul 2006
      Gender
      Location
      ʇsǝɹɔpooʍ
      Posts
      3,207
      Likes
      176
      Blueline hit the nail on the coffin.

      /thread.

    20. #20
      D.V. Editor-in-Chief Original Poster's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 2006
      LD Count
      Lucid Now
      Gender
      Location
      3D
      Posts
      8,263
      Likes
      4140
      DJ Entries
      11
      What I'm saying is your perception of demonology appears to be ruled by mythology and has little basis in people's actual experience of demons. You're reiterating scripture while ignoring the science. While your opinion is valid, I'm looking for a more Integral approach to demonology.

      Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.


    21. #21
      Banned
      Join Date
      Jul 2006
      Gender
      Location
      ʇsǝɹɔpooʍ
      Posts
      3,207
      Likes
      176
      Quote Originally Posted by Omnis Dei View Post
      What I'm saying is your perception of demonology appears to be ruled by mythology and has little basis in people's actual experience of demons. You're reiterating scripture while ignoring the science. While your opinion is valid, I'm looking for a more Integral approach to demonology.
      I'm sorry but we will bump heads here because we view the bible differently. The bible may be myth to you, but it's not a myth to me. It's more of a legend of events imo, so I draw reference of the origins of demonic entities from scripture. I find truth in many authored accounts and verses applied throughout scripture. I can't speak for the terminology of demons as used by other cultures or religions but I'm explaining from the perspective of Christianity and Christianity has adherence toward biblical scripture. I'll give you a more concise example of what I mean.

      Prior to The Biblical Flood Geology

      I'll start with Genesis 6:4 - The Nephilim were on the earth in those days--and also afterward--when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.

      The Nephilim~ (plural) are the offspring of the "sons of God(Explained through Hebrew Lexicon)" and the "daughters of men".

      The 3rd Century Book of Enoch and the Book of Jubilees speaks of the "sons of God", and reference the title as, Watchers, who came to earth and had children with human women, resulting in a race of half-angel, half-human beings known as" The Giants" (Nephilim/Anakim/Anak).

      After the Biblical Flood Geology

      Numbers 13:32-33 ~ [32] And they spread among the Israelites a bad report about the land they had explored. They said, "The land we explored devours those living in it. All the people we saw there are of great size.[33] "We saw the Nephilim there (the descendants of Anak come from the Nephilim). We seemed like grasshoppers in our own eyes, and we looked the same to them."

      Nephilim derives from the Hebrew root lypn npl (נָפַל), meaning: To fall, cause to fall or to ruin (all past tense phrases) and the lexicon interpreted the origin as a casuative stem and referenced the term Giant in a passive connotation, meaning; fallen Giants.

      The conclusion I draw from this is that demons would actually be considered descendants of fallen angels before and after the biblical flood geology. In the case of a giant like Goliath of Gath, once physically deceased, his spirit would have nowhere to go as a descendant from the lines of fallen angels. Also those that were descendents of Anak would not have a rightful place within Abraham's bosom and will be force to wander the Earth until the day of judgement. I guess this actually puts things in more perspective regarding the New Testament, carnal spirits looking for a host to subdue, drawing a correlation to the reference that you've indicated regarding what some people are able to experience. However, this is just my view from what I've learned to understand about demonic entities, some Christians may probably take a different view.

    22. #22
      Member Anukramet's Avatar
      Join Date
      Mar 2010
      LD Count
      d20
      Gender
      Location
      forssa, finland, scandinavia, northern hemisphere, mother Gaia, Father Solaria, Grandmother Milky Wa
      Posts
      47
      Likes
      17
      DJ Entries
      7
      They are your positive or negative feelings that have taken a form that you can recognize and understand.
      I am all I am nothing. I am the door opener and the door closer.







      You are dreaming...
      .

    23. #23
      Member
      Join Date
      Sep 2010
      LD Count
      22
      Gender
      Location
      Stow, Ohio
      Posts
      8
      Likes
      1
      My opinion is that Angels are thought-forms created by the goodness in one's heart (subconiously),and Demons ore thought-forms created by the vileness of one's heart (again,subconciously).Though this is only my interpretation that I think is most correct out of the explanations I have previously thought of,hehe.
      In an Ocean~

    24. #24
      Banned
      Join Date
      Jul 2007
      Gender
      Location
      The Weak and the Wounded
      Posts
      4,925
      Likes
      485
      Things dreadfully impossible to put into forum posts in language.

      Things we can only hint at in terrible and esoteric ways on here.

      Things.

    25. #25
      Banned
      Join Date
      Sep 2010
      Gender
      Location
      Texas
      Posts
      1,362
      Likes
      614

    Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

    Similar Threads

    1. The Angels need my help...
      By NightCrawler in forum General Dream Discussion
      Replies: 3
      Last Post: 02-24-2010, 04:27 PM
    2. Angels and Demons
      By FluBB in forum Entertainment
      Replies: 4
      Last Post: 02-01-2010, 09:38 PM
    3. Role of angels
      By NeoSioType in forum Religion/Spirituality
      Replies: 25
      Last Post: 06-05-2008, 11:25 PM
    4. A More Symbollic Dream of Angels & Demons
      By Lucidbulbs in forum Dream Interpretation
      Replies: 7
      Last Post: 02-28-2008, 06:22 AM
    5. Only Angels Have Wings
      By O'nus in forum The Lounge
      Replies: 24
      Last Post: 04-09-2005, 12:16 AM

    Bookmarks

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •