Thread: Xanous' Workbook

Originally Posted by Xanous

All right so for integrity sake and my belief in total honesty. I failed again last night. I think I was a bit too hasty when I said "at will". How embarrassing.

The causes are my own fault. I just realized I have been really lazy with my own basic routines. I did everything right but my awareness just wasn't quite there. Close, but I didn't get it. I only had a really long and vivid non-lucid dream when the alarm woke me. Oh well, I'll just put more focus on the basics and try again. Like I said before, it's not the aid that makes the lucid happen. It's your own ability. The aid is just that; An aid.

Edit: It is possible I forgot the lucid. For some reason lucid recall has been an issue for me. That's one reason why we work so hard at recall and keeping a DJ.

I've been there too! I've accepted the fact that I can't find a method that will work every single time. From my experience, I can say the best thing you could do is execute your technique to the best of your ability each time, not stressing about the result and putting pressure on yourself. If the technique is good enough, you know if you keep doing this you will get lucid sometime soon.

The caffeine experiment continues... Just a note but it seems melatonin is almost necessary at the beginning of the night for WBTB caffeine. The only problem is that it seems the Melatonin is killing my recall as well as my chances for pre-WBTB DILDs.

Tuesday night I didn't take melatonin as it was already late when I went to bed. I missed my WBTB and woke to go to bathroom at 4:30A. I took 100MG Caffeine and did not become lucid.

Last night I took my usual 5MG Melatonin and this morning I missed my WBTB again by an hour. Ended up waking naturally at 4:30. I was super tired and it was getting too late for a proper WBTB. This time I doubled my caffeine to 200MG. I had a brief unproductive lucid. I really wanted to attempt TOTM. It was so incredibly vivid that I became unsure if I was awake or sleeping. I guess I'll count it but I'm kind of disappointed in this one. I Didn't Mean To Scare You - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

I think 200MG is too much as it was impossible to DEILD and I ended up wide awake 30 min too soon. Also, for now on Melatonin will only be for pre-bed and when I plan to WBTB caffeine even If I have trouble sleeping after WBTB. I think with sufficient relaxation techniques and careful caffeine dosing I can beat any wakefulness.

Tonight I will break from aids and try to do a proper WBTB with meditation.

I have some personal discoveries and have developed some opinions about a few things lately. Of course, I don't pretend to know everything. This is just how I see it. Disagree? I welcome an open and friendly discussion. I that's how we all learn.

Dream Yoga
Alright so I gave up on the Tibetan stuff pretty quickly. Maybe I am too lazy. Maybe I don't get it but waking every 2 hours is really tough and didn't do me much good. I have adopted a few personal things that I learned from the book but that is about it.

WILD
I am still focusing on WILDs. I am noticing my own person technique is getting more refined and easier. SSILD is still a hit and miss but I have refined that a bit too. It's now more of a combination between 61 point and normal SSILD. Instead of See, hear, feel, It's become more like see and hear simultaneously to what does various parts of my body feel.

I have also learned that WILD is not so much about concentration but a disinterested observing of hypnagogia. We say to ignore the noise. That is correct but we fail to mention that there must be some attention to it in order to maintain that thin line of awareness.

I stumbled across Tim's youtube videos from lucidapedia on one of areyoume's post. Thanks areyoume. It confirmed a few things I was already finding out on my own so I naturally got very excited about it.

Advanced lucid dreaming: part 4

Meditation

I also found Tim's video about mediation useful. Again it very much like the WILD. Basicly a WILD practice. Instead on concentration on thinking feeling being nothing, he focuses on being. He does a better job explaining it than me.


Advanced Lucid Dreaming Part 6


The Memory Game

A few days ago I was thinking about the biggest obstacle to getting lucid. It's memory and forgetting to be aware. I can spend days focusing so hard on awareness and when I sleep I miss every dream sign ever. So, I started thinking how I can fix this.

I invented a little game for myself. All I do is simply tell myself that when X happens I will do Z. For example, When I get home from work and reach my door step I will remember to say "Bananas" and do a RC. The thing and the action doesn't matter it's simply remembering to do something at a certain time.

I was a little unsure if I was on the right track until I listened to Tim's video about prospective memory. He does essentially the same thing but he sets alarm to go off at a certain time and then does about his day. He challenges himself to remember to shut the alarm off just before it goes off.

I started playing with that yesterday as 30 min intervals. I was fairly successful at remembering just 2 or 3 minutes before the alarm. It really mimicked the same kind of emotion as suddenly realizing you are in a dream. I used this mindset last night during my WILD and found it to be a huge help.

I am not trying to promote another website here but it was very encouraging to find confirmation to some things I was just discovering for
myself.

Advanced lucid dreaming: part 5

OBE's / Astral Projection

OBE's are bullshit. I have had an open mind to it being real and I know I talk about having OBE's a lot but really I have no belief in them. I simply use that label because for a lack of a better term. The majority of my WILD/DEILD have been very OBE like so that's what I call them to simplify things.

The only reason one feels like they are leaving the body is two fold. First, when you don't set up a schema or plan where you want to "wake" to, your mind simply picks the most reasonable thing. It says well I laid down to sleep in this place so it only makes sense to enter the dream where I went to sleep. I am slowly learning how to change that and pick a location.

Second, The feeling of leaving the body can simply be explained as sleep paralysis. When you are in SP you are only half asleep. You body is still paralyzedly but your brain is highly active in the dream state. So naturally there is the confused moment where your dream body is trying to get and get going but your physical body is paralyzed. With practice this transition get much easier. All it takes is a little visualization.

Lucid Dreaming Supplements

I had pretty good success with Celea Z the first time. It was a short lucid. Really a failed WILD but quickly recovered DILD. The tea wasn't too bad. I think next time I will make it a little stronger and add some B6 for vividness.
A Walmart Trip - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

I'm am still taking Galantamine once a week every weekend. Last night I seemed to be able to beat the insomnia with a large dose of Valerian Root and avoided melatonin completely. I was able to accomplish my personal goal of phasing. So I was pretty excited about that.
There Is No Wall - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

Remember, LDS like Galantamine, Celea Z, ect. are not magic pills to get you lucid. They are aid only. It still takes skill and self knowledge to become lucid. So if you are still new to lucid dreaming I would suggest getting fairly good at inducing LDs on you own before you try any type of aid. Of course that's just my opinion and you won't be judged if you do.

Ah damn, banana, not bananas.

Congratulations Xanous! it's time for some
and paigy, you can edit posts by right clicking on the edit button. That worked for me so.....

Originally Posted by areyoume

Congratulations Xanous! it's time for some
and paigy, you can edit posts by right clicking on the edit button. That worked for me so.....

Holy crap you are right! It works for the other buttons like "reply with quote" as well! Thanks!

The penis chopping dream is utterly hilarious. It's a good thing you became lucid. And then flying with the help of you wife. I'm sure you'll get the northern lights!
Keep on dreaming!

First off, congratulations on 100 lucid dreams!! You are running really hot right now! It's awesome that you've found a recipe that works so well for you... making time for a really serious WBTB and getting that perfect balance of technique/brain chemistry/attitude... the whole thing is working really well.

I can't comment on any of your Dream Journal entries, but I will say that I'm pleased that you didn't meet your "100 lucid dreams" milestone with the one where the Klingon was trying to chop off your weenie.

I love that you pulled off the TotM, too, but my favorite of these may be the #102 "fail" where you got to take your wife along with you. Those are just amazing. DCs of loved ones are just so intricately crafted. They're like your mental models of the people you care about and I find that they are unbelievably realistic and fun to have around. The best part was where you couldn't get your flying to work right and you made her pick you up. Love it!!

You are in a great phase right now, and all I can say is congratulations, and keep this up! You really have it dialed in.

This topic alone (is lucid dreaming natural?) is fascinating to me. A fellow named Roger Ekirch had an interesting theory that before the industrial revolution, most people stayed up for about an hour in the middle of the night and that this was the natural pattern of human sleep. If so, this would mean that a WBTB was natural human behavior. I'd further wager that lucid dreaming would have been way more common. It's an interesting idea.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segmented_sleep

Interesting! Too bad society forgot this. I'd say dream recall must have been more common. Too many people now-a-days claim they don't dream. Of course we know better. But I wonder if lucid dreams were more common then without awareness practice. Hmmm maybe.

Congrats Xanous! I love how you accomplished 2 tasks in one dream, but you had the wherewithal to remember a 3rd. That must mean your LDs are pretty long too.

CL: What if you tried clicking the "Go Advanced" button when replying to a DJ?

Originally Posted by OpheliaBlue

CL: What if you tried clicking the "Go Advanced" button when replying to a DJ?

Yeah, the crazy thing is that on most DJ entries, I don't even have a box to write comments in, a "Post Now" button or a "Go Advanced" button. Old DJ entries have them, some newer ones have them, but the vast majority have nothing. I've cried about this on the bug reports thread but haven't really ever gotten a clear idea of what the deal is (or if anyone else really experiences it besides me.)

"Go advanced" works great for normal posts, though. That's what I'm using to catch my mistakes before I screw everything up. Editing posts with right-click is a huge help, too. This DJ comments thing is a persistent problem, and I'm very, very rarely to leave a comment anywhere.

Like right now, for example, I'd be congratulating you on breaking your dry spell, and abusing every silly emoticon that I could find. Maybe throw in a party hat. But now I'm forced to do this in inappropriate places, like Xanous' workbook.

Speaking of which... Congratulations on breaking your dry spell!!

Originally Posted by CanisLucidus

Yeah, the crazy thing is that on most DJ entries, I don't even have a box to write comments in, a "Post Now" button or a "Go Advanced" button. Old DJ entries have them, some newer ones have them, but the vast majority have nothing. I've cried about this on the bug reports thread but haven't really ever gotten a clear idea of what the deal is (or if anyone else really experiences it besides me.)

"Go advanced" works great for normal posts, though. That's what I'm using to catch my mistakes before I screw everything up. Editing posts with right-click is a huge help, too. This DJ comments thing is a persistent problem, and I'm very, very rarely to leave a comment anywhere.

Like right now, for example, I'd be congratulating you on breaking your dry spell, and abusing every silly emoticon that I could find. Maybe throw in a party hat. But now I'm forced to do this in inappropriate places, like Xanous' workbook.

Speaking of which... Congratulations on breaking your dry spell!!

I have the same exact issue BTW.

This is a great video on meditation. I like the method its simple and effective. If you're like me you will have to ignore all the mystical stuff and look at purely from the perspective of lucid dreaming. I haven't used this as an induction tech but it seems like a great way to WILD. Other than that I use this method during WBTB and got great results.

Ah sorry to hear that. Yeah, sometimes it seems like lucid dreaming is similar to walking a tight rope. If one little thing is off balance then it all falls apart. You'll be back at it soon.

I think my problem I just get too gung-ho when I find something that works. I always want to milk it for everything I can. I must remember to maintain balance.

I may start a thread in another part of the forum or do a search about this one later, but I wanted to post this here first as I don't have much time. I did a 30min WBTB and used that time to meditate. I used no aids and went back to bed and did SSILD.

I had this OBE like blind lucid but at the same time I was having a non-lucid dream. I never considered this a possibility.

Lucid #108 Dual Dreams - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

Ah ok, I see what you're saying. I will look into this, as I am having DJ banter withdrawals

Anddd, I'm done cluttering your workbook Xanous. SO now I gotta say something about you:

Xanous, Xanous, Xanous,
You're never ever heinous.
You lack boringness and grayness,
Kuz you're the opposite of plainness.

Originally Posted by OpheliaBlue

Ah ok, I see what you're saying. I will look into this, as I am having DJ banter withdrawals

Anddd, I'm done cluttering your workbook Xanous. SO now I gotta say something about you:

Xanous, Xanous, Xanous,
You're never ever heinous.
You lack boringness and grayness,
Kuz you're the opposite of plainness.

HA! I love it!

Congrats Xanous! I love how you accomplished 2 tasks in one dream, but you had the wherewithal to remember a 3rd. That must mean your LDs are pretty long too.

Thanks. Yeah it didn't feel all that long but, I guess if it was long enough to fit all that in, then it wasn't all that short.

First off, congratulations on 100 lucid dreams!! You are running really hot right now! It's awesome that you've found a recipe that works so well for you... making time for a really serious WBTB and getting that perfect balance of technique/brain chemistry/attitude... the whole thing is working really well.

Thank you. I am really stunned that I was lucid every night (except Thursday) for an whole week. I feel like I am cheating by using such an effective lucid aid but really, I guess I'm not. I mean if someone finds something that works then why not? I actually felt a little doubtful when I went to back to sleep this morning. I felt like there was no way I could keep getting lucid but I did. So I'll enjoy it as long as it last though I may need to take a few nights off soon. WBTB means loss of sleep time and usually I can't go back to sleep after a lucid until I post or record it and by then it's time to get ready for work.

Someone on DV once said she felt guilty for having a hot streak. I know what she means now. I know it can be frustrating when I get dry and struggle with lucidity and I see someone else is having tons of lucids. But it is also can be really motivating and I look at what they are doing right so I can step up my game a bit. I hope that it motivates others because I really don't post to brag but to help other learn if they read it. OK maybe a little bragging. I just hope I can keep it going or can stop/start when I want.

I can't comment on any of your Dream Journal entries, but I will say that I'm pleased that you didn't meet your "100 lucid dreams" milestone with the one where the Klingon was trying to chop off your weenie.

OMG no kidding. That one was the worst lucid ever!

I love that you pulled off the TotM, too, but my favorite of these may be the #102 "fail" where you got to take your wife along with you. Those are just amazing. DCs of loved ones are just so intricately crafted. They're like your mental models of the people you care about and I find that they are unbelievably realistic and fun to have around. The best part was where you couldn't get your flying to work right and you made her pick you up. Love it!!

You are in a great phase right now, and all I can say is congratulations, and keep this up! You really have it dialed in.

I know what you mean. That was a real breakthrough moment for me. My dream wife usually argues with me and tells me stuff like "I am wasting my time" or "this dreaming crap is unhealthy". But in real life she's not like that all. I don't know where it was coming from but I learned to just say "Well, you're not real. So bye". Anyway, it was really awesome I go to take her along and actually have her help me get over a mental block so I could fly. So, even-though I failed TOTM it was still a success that opened a door to a whole new experience. I know I kind of down-talked TOTM before, but really, these tasks are great way to stretch your mental boundaries and learn a lot of new and exciting things in the dream world.

I LOVE IT!

So I guess I'll update. My caffeine results are still pretty good. Sunday night I was at my sister-in-laws but I still wanted to WBTB. I had green tea made up and discretely packed away. I felt odd meditating in their living room with people sleeping on the couch and I didn't want to disturbed my wife and kids, so I just chugged the tea and meditated myself to sleep. Failure. I was super tired and had little focus. BUT This morning I missed my WBTB alarm by an hour. So when I finally got up I didn't want to spend much time on WBTB. I had coffee prepared already so I just got up long enough to drink and pee and jump back into bed and do a little SSILD. The coffee was STRONG so I took 2MG melatonin and 200MG B6 for fun. It gave me a half DILD/DEILD CHAIN OBE but it was short. I got to test some new exit ideas but it was pretty bland other than that.

So what I found out- it seems that if I don't stay up awhile (30 Min is good) then I need stronger caffeine than green tea. If I do stay up and just meditate, then very little to none works. Maybe caffeine is just a WBTB cheat for me? All in all my success rate with caffeine is still near 100% but I still wouldn't say that I can LD at will (Don't get cocky, kid!) I may try caffeine pills if I can get the MG lower. It would be nice to know how much caffeine is the right amount.

And once more; I don't do it every night. I'm not saying anything is wrong with it but it is much better for my sleep patterns to rest on the caffeine 3 to 4 night out of the week. A longer WBTB with meditation does fine. In fact, Some nights I don't even care to LD.

What's the phasing goal about?

Originally Posted by Booney

What's the phasing goal about?

I get trapped a lot in my LD's especially OBE style lucids. So I want to learn to past through doors and walls as an easy way to get outside.

Love that dream, man! I've still never eaten any dream food (or had anything good to drink, either.) What a great use of a dark scene too! Man! Just imagine, okay, I'm in the dark eating delicious food or drinking some amazing beverage out of the back of my hand. I'll keep this in mind because I've been in the dark a number of times and while I can sometimes find my way out maybe 1 out of every 3-4 times, this is a whole other direction to explore. Why get so hung up on visuals unnecessarily?

It also strikes me as a great opportunity to speak to the dream. Why not? What's there to lose?

I also like that you use your wife's alarm as a DEILD alarm. That is a really smart way to handle it. One day a week Wife gets up at the butt-crack of dawn to go for a super-long run and the alarm is going off at 5 am. It makes me so incredibly sad. I kinda wake up and have all kinds of trouble getting back to sleep with all the activity that's going on. But I should try just holding still, not feeling sorry for myself, and just think of it as my DEILD alarm.

Yeah sometimes fighting it just wakes me up so I work with what I get. Its fun to just go with the dream once in awhile not worrying about any task.

That's a great idea using that time to talk to the dream I wish I had thought of that!

I think you should use that 5 am alarm as DEILD time if you can. Turn it into a good thing and not feel sad. It rarely works for me but sometimes I get lucky.

So, I feel like I am at a point of being able to have a lucid at will.

Awesome! Did you ever think you'd type that sentence? What you just said is what I've long hoped to one day be able to say myself. I'm not there yet, but hopefully one day! Here, enjoy a dancing muffin to go along with that cup of coffee: And hey, check out what you said two weeks ago:

I feel like a dry spell is forming but lets hope not.

I am experimenting with caffeine and melatonin for a few nights. I will post if anything comes of it.

My oh my, how things change. So... anything ever come out of that caffeine and melatonin experiment? I was already thinking about rotating in your caffeine method at some point, but now I feel really pumped about trying it. If you don't mind, I wanted to make sure that I understand the approach.

1. Fall asleep at night w/ no particular lucid aids.
2. WBTB for 30 minutes after 5-6 hours of sleep. Drink half a cup of cold coffee (LOL, gross) and take ~2mg melatonin.
3. Perform standard SSILD, fall asleep for DILD or attempt WILD. (Both seemed to work, with DILD perhaps your more common outcome?)

Potential side effects: Dreams where Klingons try to lop off your wiener with a meat cleaver.

So is that about right for a description of the method? Very, very interesting stuff. Would you mind telling me how whether the coffee is instant/brewed/whatever and maybe what the brand is? It'd be cool to get a read on how much caffeine you're consuming. (At half a cup, it's got to be no more than 50-75 mg, I'd think.)

Caffeine has three mechanisms of action that seem relevant to me:
1) Caffeine acts as an adenosine antagonist, meaning that nerve cells will fire at a higher rate. That ought to make you more aware.
2) Effect #1 causes the pituitary gland to release adrenaline. This should improve concentration, focus, and memory during the dream.
3) Caffeine slows dopamine reabsorption, causing dopamine levels to climb. This should increase feelings of confidence and motivation, ideal for improved dream control.

What do you think? Plausible explanation for why it works so well? Lately I've been really thinking about green tea as a possible lucid aid, as it is a great source of L-Theanine, which tends to make you feel calm and alert (ideal for creating a quiet mind when falling asleep.) Green tea is a little low in caffeine, though, so it might be like 3 cups to get the same caffeine that you're getting. An LD wouldn't be as much fun if I wind up wetting the bed in the middle of it, heh heh heh... But still! WBTB green tea is something I'm very interested in as a lucid aid as well, particularly after all of the success you've had w/ caffeine by other means.

Congratulations again! I'm really excited for you. To your continued success!

Originally Posted by CanisLucidus

Awesome! Did you ever think you'd type that sentence? What you just said is what I've long hoped to one day be able to say myself. I'm not there yet, but hopefully one day! Here, enjoy a dancing muffin to go along with that cup of coffee: And hey, check out what you said two weeks ago:

No and I am really hoping I don't put my foot in my mouth but I've done it for 2 weeks straight with awesome success. Of course I took a break in there to rest. I hate to say it but last night was the first failure but I know why. Maybe I was over confident but I feel lucid dreaming is half confidence and greatly increases your chances of lucidity. Anyway, I got to sleep way late last night and did WBTB at my usual time. So less initial sleep. I should have waited but I know my son usually wakes about 5:30-6:00 and I was afraid that he would interrupt my dreaming. I didn't stay up but for a few minutes and then I just passed out not even trying any induction. So yeah. But I did have a huge recall boost after that. I guess I was just too wiped to really be lucid.

Originally Posted by CanisLucidus

My oh my, how things change. So... anything ever come out of that caffeine and melatonin experiment? I was already thinking about rotating in your caffeine method at some point, but now I feel really pumped about trying it. If you don't mind, I wanted to make sure that I understand the approach.

1. Fall asleep at night w/ no particular lucid aids.
2. WBTB for 30 minutes after 5-6 hours of sleep. Drink half a cup of cold coffee (LOL, gross) and take ~2mg melatonin.
3. Perform standard SSILD, fall asleep for DILD or attempt WILD. (Both seemed to work, with DILD perhaps your more common outcome?)

Yes that's about right. But the idea of my WBTB was 2.5 to 2 hours before wake time. I don't always WBTB for 30 but that's the best time for me. I try to resist melatonin because it seems my dreams become less vivid. I usually take a B6 with it to try and counter that. That part is still experimental. Also, once in awhile I will try to repeat that white lucid WILD I had at the beginning of sleep a while back. I'll just give it a good SSILD/WILD attempt just for the fun of it but I almost always pass out like and sleep like a rock. Hasn't happened yet but I'd love to revisit that. Oh an I forgot to mention that I have been taking 5MG Melatonin about 30 before bed. I don't know if that has any effect but maybe.

Originally Posted by CanisLucidus

Potential side effects: Dreams where Klingons try to lop off your wiener with a meat cleaver.

Haha actually that was pre WBTB. So no. The worst thing that will happen is you never get back to sleep. Enter melatonin.

Originally Posted by CanisLucidus

So is that about right for a description of the method? Very, very interesting stuff. Would you mind telling me how whether the coffee is instant/brewed/whatever and maybe what the brand is? It'd be cool to get a read on how much caffeine you're consuming. (At half a cup, it's got to be no more than 50-75 mg, I'd think.)

Well my methods of measurement are crude heehee. The coffee is just Great Value brand brewed. Actually my coffee maker broke so I have just been putting half a baby formula scoop full into a large mug of hot water and letting it set when I go to bed. Then during WBTB I strain it and drink a few mouthfuls (about half a regular sized mug). I have no idea the how many MG of caffeine it is. I have been wondering that myself. I think the amounts will be different for each person. Too much and you stay awake!

Originally Posted by CanisLucidus

Caffeine has three mechanisms of action that seem relevant to me:
1) Caffeine acts as an adenosine antagonist, meaning that nerve cells will fire at a higher rate. That ought to make you more aware.
2) Effect #1 causes the pituitary gland to release adrenaline. This should improve concentration, focus, and memory during the dream.
3) Caffeine slows dopamine reabsorption, causing dopamine levels to climb. This should increase feelings of confidence and motivation, ideal for improved dream control.

What do you think? Plausible explanation for why it works so well? Lately I've been really thinking about green tea as a possible lucid aid, as it is a great source of L-Theanine, which tends to make you feel calm and alert (ideal for creating a quiet mind when falling asleep.) Green tea is a little low in caffeine, though, so it might be like 3 cups to get the same caffeine that you're getting. An LD wouldn't be as much fun if I wind up wetting the bed in the middle of it, heh heh heh... But still! WBTB green tea is something I'm very interested in as a lucid aid as well, particularly after all of the success you've had w/ caffeine by other means.

That sounds like a good explanation to me! Of course, it will not do anything for you without daily awareness practices and a good induction tech but I don't need to tell you that I'm sure. I think you should give the green tea a try since that is what you are used to drinking anyway. I can't wait to see the results!

Originally Posted by CanisLucidus

Congratulations again! I'm really excited for you. To your continued success!

Thanks! You're always so thorough and sharp as a tack. It seems that you always point out things that the OP never even thought of.

Originally Posted by Xanous

I try to resist melatonin because it seems my dreams become less vivid. I usually take a B6 with it to try and counter that. That part is still experimental. Also, once in awhile I will try to repeat that white lucid WILD I had at the beginning of sleep a while back. I'll just give it a good SSILD/WILD attempt just for the fun of it but I almost always pass out like and sleep like a rock. Hasn't happened yet but I'd love to revisit that. Oh an I forgot to mention that I have been taking 5MG Melatonin about 30 before bed. I don't know if that has any effect but maybe.

Yeah, that all makes sense to me. Melatonin is of course great for helping you get back to sleep but also probably suppresses REM for a while. Melatonin has a short half-life but 5mg is also a pretty hefty dose. So I'd estimate that you have a hefty REM rebound building up in the later phases of sleep. Of course, the life of the family man dictates that you don't always get to the later stages of sleep.

Originally Posted by Xanous

Well my methods of measurement are crude heehee. The coffee is just Great Value brand brewed. Actually my coffee maker broke so I have just been putting half a baby formula scoop full into a large mug of hot water and letting it set when I go to bed. Then during WBTB I strain it and drink a few mouthfuls (about half a regular sized mug). I have no idea the how many MG of caffeine it is. I have been wondering that myself. I think the amounts will be different for each person. Too much and you stay awake!

Cool, thanks for the info! Back of the envelope, we could say that a cup of the brewed stuff is 100-110 mg of caffeine. So you're consuming perhaps 50-55mg of caffeine? Maybe 75mg tops? Energyfiend says green tea has 25-40mg per 8-ounce glass, so 1-2 glasses might be perfect. And with the L-theanine the green tea contains, much less (or even no) melatonin might be necessary for sleep. Considering that I almost never consume caffeine, 1 glass might be ideal for my own first experiment.

So is this all of the caffeine you consume? Other than this, have you given it up entirely? Since caffeine tolerance is such an individual thing (and changes readily over time), all of these numbers are just for estimation purposes anyway.

BTW, energyfiend's "Death by Caffeine" calculator says that drinking "104.76 cups of coffee" in a single sitting has enough caffeine to kill the average male. So be careful not to miscount during that WBTB! Death by Caffeine

Originally Posted by Xanous

That sounds like a good explanation to me! Of course, it will not do anything for you without daily awareness practices and a good induction tech but I don't need to tell you that I'm sure. I think you should give the green tea a try since that is what you are used to drinking anyway. I can't wait to see the results!

Thanks! You're always so thorough and sharp as a tack. It seems that you always point out things that the OP never even thought of.

Thanks, brother, I appreciate that! And I'm right there with you on the primacy of awareness practices, mindset, and a solid induction tech. No lucid aid can do anything more than unlock your own potential and maximize the training and work that you put in. I will certainly try out that green tea experiment sometime soon and post the results in my workbook!