Thread: Music is doomed

Originally Posted by Noogah

There is a whole world out there of ghastly music, and according to you, there is an equal if not greater amount of good/artistic/beautiful/whatever-term-you-want-to-use music. Well, I never hear it, unless it's music I've dug up myself, so it would seem by this observation that the afore mentioned music that is not ghastly is becoming unpopular. And, as we have already established, it is the populous that decides what music is.

Of course, I forgot that 'establish' means 'repeatedly assert'. ʘ‿ʘ

And you've already admitted that you don't actually listen to modern music so I don't care about your baseless opinions.

John Cage's "piece" is not music. It is theater of the absurd.

Hm well, I don't think it was ever really supposed to be listened to. It's more of a philosophical point than anything... what's the minimum number of notes required for a piece of music?

I wonder if he gave it a key signature. :l

no, but it did apparently have a tempo indication of 60. there's no actual sheet music, from what I understand. Is it visible in the video?

some interesting

Originally Posted by Mario92

It'll shoot off on a new tangent before too long.

I just hope you're right.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Noogah, way to dodge a completely clear question and pretend you don't understand an extremely simple point. This is ridiculous.

I get really tired of people accusing me of things and never bothering to explain themselves.

Originally Posted by Caprisun

The making of and appreciation of music is pretty fundamental to human nature. The notion that this capacity is losing it's vitality is pretty absurd if you ask me. Good music will exist as longs as humans have the means to create it.

I don't really know why you say that. That is to say, I don't know why you think that music is fundamental to human nature, and that good music will exist so long as humans have the means. Why do you say that? I have no arguement, but I would like to know where you're coming from.

Originally Posted by Kiza

Noogah, what defines "good music" and "bad music" in your opinion?

Originally Posted by AbstractAsylum

You can't make bad music. It's impossible.

In the end, it is a matter of opinion, to an extent. However, to say that there is no such thing as bad music is invalid, I think. I mean, there is a difference between music and noise, and to say that music can be anything pretty much puts it on the same standards as noise, which means that it is no longer music, but noise.

In my own opinion, bad music lacks the sound of structure, and has no point. And by "has no point" I mean, it neither conveys a message, idea, or emotion through lyrics, poetry, harmony, or sound. Much of the modern music I hear is this way.

Originally Posted by Xei

And you've already admitted that you don't actually listen to modern music so I don't care about your baseless opinions.

I'm gonna explain this again.

I don't go to youtube and decide to listen to modern music. I don't turn on the radio, and decide to listen to modern music. I don't keep it on my iPod, or on CD's. Nonetheless, I hear it. I hear it alot.

Woah... does it come out of your arse or something?

In my own opinion, bad music lacks the sound of structure, and has no point. And by "has no point" I mean, it neither conveys a message, idea, or emotion through lyrics, poetry, harmony, or sound. Much of the modern music I hear is this way.

Well...a lot of the trance music I like doesn't convey any message other than "this sounds good. Turn it up louder." I would argue that "good" music is anything that is auditorily pleasing. It doesn't have to have insightful lyrics (though they can be appreciated on occasion).

Originally Posted by Noogah

I don't really know why you say that. That is to say, I don't know why you think that music is fundamental to human nature, and that good music will exist so long as humans have the means. Why do you say that? I have no arguement, but I would like to know where you're coming from.

The capacity for music evolved around the same time as spoken language and art. It is a part of the mating ritual. Just like birds dance around eachother and build fancy nests, we play beautiful music for eachother, among other things. Our minds are more important than our bodies when it comes to mating, at least if you are a man it is. Ever notice how musicians are considered to be some of the most attractive people on the planet despite very few of them actually being physically attractive? Do you think chicks like rock stars for their anorexic, drug laden bodies? Their piercing intellects? Musical talent gives you status, the most important aspect of social life.

Originally Posted by Noogah

In the end, it is a matter of opinion, to an extent. However, to say that there is no such thing as bad music is invalid, I think. I mean, there is a difference between music and noise, and to say that music can be anything pretty much puts it on the same standards as noise, which means that it is no longer music, but noise.

In my own opinion, bad music lacks the sound of structure, and has no point. And by "has no point" I mean, it neither conveys a message, idea, or emotion through lyrics, poetry, harmony, or sound. Much of the modern music I hear is this way.


I'm gonna explain this again.

I don't go to youtube and decide to listen to modern music. I don't turn on the radio, and decide to listen to modern music. I don't keep it on my iPod, or on CD's. Nonetheless, I hear it. I hear it alot.

First of all, can you give me an example of modern music that "lacks the sound of structure and has no point"? And don't say 4:33, which is, as someone said before, more of a theatrical piece.

And secondly, how exactly do you hear modern music if you don't actively listen to it on your iPod, CDs, or listen to the radio?

Sorry to hijack but Happy Birthday John Lennon Your Music ROCKED and am Fan for Life.

Now back to the topic.

Modern Music varies and to say all of it sucks is stretching really. But hey if you like to listen to underground that's your choice but don't go around prancing modern music sucks. Just my 2cents.

Originally Posted by MrBlonde

But hey if you like to listen to underground

Handel is hella underground.

Originally Posted by Siиdяed

Handel is hella underground.

Nice Sarcasm there......

Originally Posted by Lseadragon

But I discussed it with the people I was visiting the gallery with, and somebody mentioned that might've been the artist's intention; to annoy.

Moral of the story: Even the most inane, irritating, offensive, talentless, obnoxious, contentless and inapliccable dreck can be gotten away with under the pretense of art.

The painting made you realize that you hate it.

Genius.

Originally Posted by Caprisun

Musical talent gives you status, the most important aspect of social life.

It does in this culture. In the future, perhaps being able to smell bad will give you high social status.
Speech is just a vital part of humanity. it is the most efficient form of communication man has yet, and communication is vital for the existence of society.

Originally Posted by Xei

Woah... does it come out of your haha or something?

You know what? Do me a favor and don't make me wear away my keyboard on you anymore.

Originally Posted by Mario92

Well...a lot of the trance music I like doesn't convey any message other than "this sounds good. Turn it up louder." I would argue that "good" music is anything that is auditorily pleasing.

Which is just what I said. "I mean, it neither conveys a message, idea, or emotion through lyrics, poetry, harmony, or sound" Emotion through sound counts as auditorily pleasing, I believe.

I like some trance music myself.

Originally Posted by Kiza

First of all, can you give me an example of modern music that "lacks the sound of structure and has no point"?...And secondly, how exactly do you hear modern music if you don't actively listen to it on your iPod, CDs, or listen to the radio?

Like I said, I don't go around looking for that sort of music. I just hear it everywhere, so I don't actually get the titles. It plays on the radio in stores, it accompanies many videos, it's in movies, and sometimes, people are so considerate and thoughtful as to stick speakers on top of their car so everyone else can listen in with them.

However, I thought 'Music of Changes" which I posted earlier on, was quite a good example. Though, it is not really the popular type, it's still the sort of rot you find in modern classical music.

Originally Posted by Mario92

Well...a lot of the trance music I like doesn't convey any message other than "this sounds good. Turn it up louder." I would argue that "good" music is anything that is auditorily pleasing. It doesn't have to have insightful lyrics (though they can be appreciated on occasion).

Good music doesn't even have to be pleasing. All music has to be is a group of sounds that create an emotion. If that emotion is relaxed or pissed, wistful or terrified, happy or sad, if it conveys that emotion deeply then it did the job it set out to do. It can be disorganized or it can sound like screaming to one person or it can be totally improv and crazy or it can follow the classical formulas. It doesn't matter. Now, to use one example, if the music doesn't get you pissed off in general, (if it is an angry song,) but rather you just get mad/annoyed at the music itself for sucking, well, I wouldn't say it did it's job in that case.

Originally Posted by Noogah

You know what? Do me a favor and don't make me wear away my keyboard on you anymore.

Why? Kiza asked exactly the same question and you answered him.

By the way, don't think I failed to notice that you couldn't actually answer the other (apparently pointless?) question in the post before.

Doubleplusgooddoublethink yet again Noogie.

Originally Posted by Xei

Why? Kiza asked exactly the same question and you answered him.

By the way, don't think I failed to notice that you couldn't actually answer the other (apparently pointless?) question in the post before.

Doubleplusgooddoublethink yet again Noogie.

Liking the Newspeak references.

I don't think you're wearing out your keyboard on Xei. I think that this thread was created with the sole intent of catching a small of group of people's attention. It's like trolling, but selectively. Trolls aren't even this low.

I don't think anyone really believes that you have any legitimate emotion on the topic you created a thread for, or that you really believe music is doomed at all. And if you do, it's more of a lackadaisical side-thought than anything; the front piece being that this could place you in view of a particular facet of the DV community yet again.

Oh well. Modern music is great, your loss.

I'm wondering why the other posters here still even bother. I can see that these arguments have happened before, with the same people. You guys seem intelligent enough to put an end to this.

Originally Posted by AbstractAsylum

Liking the Newspeak references.

I don't think you're wearing out your keyboard on Xei. I think that this thread was created with the sole intent of catching a small of group of people's attention. It's like trolling, but selectively. Trolls aren't even this low.

I don't think anyone really believes that you have any legitimate emotion on the topic you created a thread for, or that you really believe music is doomed at all. And if you do, it's more of a lackadaisical side-thought than anything; the front piece being that this could place you in view of a particular facet of the DV community yet again.

Oh well. Modern music is great, your loss.

I'm wondering why the other posters here still even bother. I can see that these arguments have happened before, with the same people. You guys seem intelligent enough to put an end to
this.

Well this was the most sensible thing I've heard from a Noogah thread in awhile.

Originally Posted by Xei

Why? Kiza asked exactly the same question and you answered him.

By the way, don't think I failed to notice that you couldn't actually answer the other (apparently pointless?) question in the post before.

1.No he didn't.

2.No I didn't. To my knowledge, I answered everything you asked.

You have a bad habit of doing this, Xei. You ask me a question, and I give you an answer, and then you dislike the answer, and so you always say "You didn't answer the question.".

My keyboard is wasted on you, because you pay no heed to what I say.

You, sir, have been spontaneously trolling me for almost as long as I can remember. It takes time to write this stuff, think it over, proofread it, and correct it, and you just ignore it/trash it/ don't read it. There are some mature debaters in here. Universal Mind, Spockman, MrBlonde, and Mario92 are good examples. You are not one of them.

Originally Posted by Spockman

It doesn't matter. Now, to use one example, if the music doesn't get you irritated in general, (if it is an angry song,) but rather you just get mad/annoyed at the music itself for sucking, well, I wouldn't say it did it's job in that case.

I will have to agree with this, to an extent.

Music doesn't have to sound like it has structure, as long as it truly does accomplish one of those things. But I have not heard a piece yet that seemed to lack structure, and truly strike me with emotion. But, if theoretically one could do that, I would find it intriquing.

Originally Posted by AbstractAsylum

I don't think anyone really believes that you have any legitimate emotion on the topic you created a thread for, or that you really believe music is doomed at all.

Well, no, not really. I mean, it isn't something that I mourn over. It's more of an observation than anything else. But, it does truly sadden me, and I truly do think that music is headed in a bad direction. As I have said before several times in this thread, music may not be "doomed", but from what I can see, it isn't going in a good direction.

Threads are for discussion. I made the thread to see other people's opinions on the topic. I am not "trolling".

Originally Posted by AbstractAsylum

Oh well. Modern music is great, your loss.

Okay, well, that's your view on things. You can do one of two things:

1.Believe it, ignore this thread, get on with life, and let us be.
2.Realize that some people have different opinions on things, and try to show them why you have yours.


What you are basically saying is:

"You're a troll, and my opinion is better than yours. Take it or leave it."

That's a pretty immature approach.

Okay well here is the bit you failed to address

Originally Posted by Xei

Of course, I forgot that 'establish' means 'repeatedly assert'. ʘ‿ʘ

and here are the two identical questions

Woah... does it come out of your arse or something?

And secondly, how exactly do you hear modern music if you don't actively listen to it on your iPod, CDs, or listen to the radio?

doublethink obfuscation diverted: rectify speedwise

Originally Posted by Xei

Of course, I forgot that 'establish' means 'repeatedly assert'. ʘ‿ʘ

Oh. okay.

Well, all I have to say to that is I don't remember any objections to the point, and at least one person agreed to it. So, yeah, it seemed established to me. If YOU have any objections to the concept, feel free to bring them up.

Originally Posted by Xei

Woah... does it come out of your haha or something?

That's not a question. That's an insult.

Originally Posted by Xei

And secondly, how exactly do you hear modern music if you don't actively listen to it on your iPod, CDs, or listen to the radio?

I addressed this here, and here, at the end of both.

Originally Posted by Noogah

That's not a question. That's an insult.

No it wasn't. It was a colourful way of asking where you heard modern music from if not from the sources you denied (which is a shame, but that's a side point...if you don't actively listen to something or put much effort into investigating it a snap judgement against it seems a little hasty).

Maybe if your response to swearing was something more than knee-jerk censorship you might have followed that. It's an important part of language that communicates a vast range of things, and what Xei asked was pretty apparent to everyone else. It wasn't a direct insult (indirect possibly, but if so not a very personal one), it was simply a pass at the absurd in expressing surprise and confusion as to how you could hear modern music if not through the more expected mediums.

I'm being tangental. But informative.

I don't like misunderstandings.

Also, I think that haha sounds the same as hoo-hoo. I am assuming you do not have one of those.

Originally Posted by Noogah

It does in this culture. In the future, perhaps being able to smell bad will give you high social status.
Speech is just a vital part of humanity. it is the most efficient form of communication man has yet, and communication is vital for the existence of society.

No, it has in every culture that has ever existed. Music is culture and musical ability means high fitness in every circumstance, always. Smelling bad may become some sort of social fad at some point in the future, but there is no depth to that. It is fleeting and it will disappear as soon as a new fad starts. Music isn't a fad.