Thread: Music is doomed

Originally Posted by Siиdяed

If Noogah thinks hard about connecting the point made in the first sentence with the point made in the picture and the second sentence he might stop with the HERE IS A CLASSICAL PIECE AND HERE IS A MODERN PIECE I HAVE CHOSEN proof of argument.

Apparently it was a flawed analogy 'because Christianity is objective'.

Originally Posted by Siиdяed

When people think 'ye olde times when things were good' they're usually thinking about the work that stood the test of time. Contempary work is usually judged on the most populist and ubiquitous tunes that are obviously often of poor quality and cheifly designed for mass-enjoyment and commercial reasons.

Art has become steadily more prevelant in production over time and has become increasingly used for commercial gain. It isn't that the musical greats aren't around any more. It's just that you need to look harder to find them.

Eloquently stated.

Originally Posted by DeeryTheDeer

It'll distract them from bitching and moaning on message boards, which is irritating, and making themselves generally miserable by bitching and moaning about things they have no control over. What I'm saying is, GET A LIFE. Lets see you do better than today's music.

Are you bitching and moaning about bitching and moaning ? Does that mean you should get a life? This is a discussion forum, and we are discussing how musical quality has changed, or not changed, over time. That is an all right thing to do, and some people find it interesting and enjoy it. If opinions bother you, you are in the wrong place.

Nobody here is claiming that he can outdo today's popular music himself. The discussion is about how popular music has changed.

Codename, timing is everything.

Originally Posted by Invader

Obviously funding is not necessary to put an artist into the spotlight, and people don't pay for music the way they used to.

Corrected.

Originally Posted by Xei

Apparently it was a flawed analogy 'because Christianity is objective'.

And you, in your stubborness, will forever pretend that you don't see the sense in what I said.

Originally Posted by Siиdяed

Art has become steadily more prevelant in production over time and has become increasingly used for commercial gain. It isn't that the musical greats aren't around any more. It's just that you need to look harder to find them.

Yes, and it will become harder and harder to find, until it fades into obscurity, and dies.

The harder it is to find, the less people will find it, and the less people will be willing to look. This domino seems like it has the potential to wipe out the good stuff.

I'm not saying that all good music will definitely die out, but it certainly feels that way, and I find it sad.

Originally Posted by Noogah

Corrected.

I blame the music industry in general for the problems of artists. iTunes is a glorious ripoff for the artists and a huge kickback for the record labels. They make way more money on CD purchases, and even then it isn't a lot.

Originally Posted by Mario92

I blame the music industry in general for the problems of artists. iTunes is a glorious ripoff for the artists and a huge kickback for the record labels. They make way more money on CD purchases, and even then it isn't a lot.

You can't blame the industry when there are millions and millions of people buying that garbage. If the people didn't buy crap music constantly, then the industry wouldn't make it. As for the artist getting their money off of CD's....the only ones who really do that is the independent types who start up their own label, or they sell millions upon millions of records. If you want to support your favorite artist, then go to a concert. Theres far less people that get to skim off of the top before it gets to them. It's also the reason why a lot of artists stay on tour constantly, only to taking breaks to make the next album.

Originally Posted by Noogah

Corrected.

Corrected.

"Declining record sales" became popular words among industry professionals as our ability to pirate music grew with our access to technology. Why do you think that is? Could it have something to do with the fact that not being able to pirate music meant that we had to go and actually purchase it from the stores? Or did record companies just put their CDs out because they looked pretty on store shelves? Why do you think Tower Records, a company that existed since the 1960s, had to file bankruptcy a few years into the new millenium?

Yeesh.

Originally Posted by Noogah

And you, in your stubborness, will forever pretend that you don't see the sense in what I said.

In the world inside your head where everybody disagrees with you despite knowing that you're right.

It's an analogy Noogie. It's an extremely simple logical construct, there's not even any point in arguing its validity because anybody with any semblance of cognition can see that it's blatantly correct. What you said makes literally zero sense. Christianity has nothing to do with this, I could have said that Hitler was proof that all Germans are evil or that Bush was proof that all Americans are republicans or that 7 is proof that all numbers are prime. It's a goddamn analogy, can you honestly not understand these extremely simple concepts?

It's an extremely simple logical construct, there's not even any point in arguing its validity because anybody with any semblance of cognition can see that it's blatantly correct.

You make me feel like I'm talking to my seven year old brother.

Now, you're trying to pawn stupidity off on me because I'm fourteen and you think you can get away with it. When are going to realize that doesn't work?

I'm going to explain again.

You say:

Asking what music is coming to because there is bad music is like asking what Christianity is coming to because there are bad people who say they're Christians.

This is flawed because bad music affects the state of music, whereas bad Christians do not affect the state of Christianity.

Christianity is founded in solid rock, and is not determined by what people think it is.

Music is not founded in rock; it changes with what people consider music.

And thus, if bad music has become more prevalent then good music, asking the question "What is music coming to?" is valid.

As such, you cannot compare the two, and thus your point is not proved by your analogy.

If you can give me a valid analogy, then be my guest. You have not, so don't pretend you have. Unless, of course, you can tell me why I'm wrong here.

Originally Posted by Noogah

You make me feel like I'm talking to my seven year old brother.

Now, you're trying to pawn stupidity off on me because I'm fourteen and you think you can get away with it. When are going to realize that doesn't work?

I'm going to explain again.

You say:

Asking what music is coming to because there is bad music is like asking what Christianity is coming to because there are bad people who say they're Christians.

This is flawed because bad music affects the state of music, whereas bad Christians do not affect the state of Christianity.

Christianity is founded in solid rock, and is not determined by what people think it is.

Music is not founded in rock; it changes with what people consider music.

And thus, if bad music has become more prevalent then good music, asking the question "What is music coming to?" is valid.

As such, you cannot compare the two, and thus your point is not proved by your analogy.

If you can give me a valid analogy, then be my guest. You have not, so don't pretend you have. Unless, of course, you can tell me why I'm wrong here.

You're stuck on a small facet of the argument and it's the wrong facet. The point is, you are grossly misrepresenting modern music.

Originally Posted by Caprisun

The point is, you are grossly misrepresenting modern music.

Well, your point isn't proven by the analogy. That's all I'm saying.

Anyways, in regards to the point itself, in the end, it's a matter of opinion. What I like may not be your forte, and vice versa.

But still, most of what I hear nowadays is so much lesser than the music that used to be. I can't help but to feel that the state of music is declining.

Originally Posted by Mario92

The original is way better than the remix.

Noogah, a religion is not just a book or a set of tenets. It is a system of interpretations and practices.

Would you agree with Xei's analogy if he had said "the practice of Christianity" or "Christians"?

well, the early 90's started with a lot of experiments, which some of those experiments turned into stuff we hate, and some turned into music we love

Like all the dance Choreography, that music companies new would sell so well.....even though the songs were terrible.

Originally Posted by Noogah

You make me feel like I'm talking to my seven year old brother.

Now, you're trying to pawn stupidity off on me because I'm fourteen and you think you can get away with it. When are going to realize that doesn't work?

I'm going to explain again.

You say:

Asking what music is coming to because there is bad music is like asking what Christianity is coming to because there are bad people who say they're Christians.

This is flawed because bad music affects the state of music, whereas bad Christians do not affect the state of Christianity.

Christianity is founded in solid rock, and is not determined by what people think it is.

Music is not founded in rock; it changes with what people consider music.

And thus, if bad music has become more prevalent then good music, asking the question "What is music coming to?" is valid.

As such, you cannot compare the two, and thus your point is not proved by your analogy.

If you can give me a valid analogy, then be my guest. You have not, so don't pretend you have. Unless, of course, you can tell me why I'm wrong here.

Because so many kids have John Cage's 4.33 on their iPods. ʘ‿ʘ

You know, there are plenty of cool artists in genres that are expanding in new directions. There are many, many trends that I'm very excited for; I'm excited to see where modern music moves as a whole. There are lots of people doing amazing, innovative things, in cool new genres, and a youtube link to John Cage's 4.33 won't change that. A handful of less-than-talented musicians with mainstream acceptance aren't going to stop tens of thousands of brilliant musicians from expressing themselves in beautiful ways.

It's all in how you look at it, so look for the best. Music is not doomed.

Also, the fact that you used the terms "bad" and "good" music... >_>

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Noogah, a religion is not just a book or a set of tenets. It is a system of interpretations and practices.

Would you agree with Xei's analogy if he had said "the practice of Christianity" or "Christians"?

Not exactly certain what you mean by that. (Religion is a man made word, by the way. Christianity isn't so much a "religion" as it is a relationship with God.)

Originally Posted by Xei

Because so many kids have John Cage's 4.33 on their iPods. ʘ‿ʘ

We've already established that I used only a couple of meager examples. Really, the original intent of this thread was modern "classical" music, but it expanded to include all genres.

There is a whole world out there of ghastly music, and according to you, there is an equal if not greater amount of good/artistic/beautiful/whatever-term-you-want-to-use music. Well, I never hear it, unless it's music I've dug up myself, so it would seem by this observation that the afore mentioned music that is not ghastly is becoming unpopular. And, as we have already established, it is the populous that decides what music is.

The better music may not be doomed to perish, but it certainly seems so, and it saddens me.

Originally Posted by AbstractAsylum

Also, the fact that you used the terms "bad" and "good" music... >_>

Got better words?

We've already established that I used only a couple of meager examples. Really, the original intent of this thread was modern "classical" music, but it expanded to include all genres.

There is a whole world out there of ghastly music, and according to you, there is an equal if not greater amount of good/artistic/beautiful/whatever-term-you-want-to-use music. Well, I never hear it, unless it's music I've dug up myself, so it would seem by this observation that the afore mentioned music that is not ghastly is becoming unpopular. And, as we have already established, it is the populous that decides what music is.

The better music may not be doomed to perish, but it certainly seems so, and it saddens me.

People are fickle. If you look at the history of music in the last few decades, you'll find that each decade had a sort of particular, distinct "sound" to it. Even assuming music is on a downward trend, it won't stay that way for very long. It'll shoot off on a new tangent before too long.

If all other poor helps fail, then this is their extreme refuge. These things (say they) pleased our forefathers and ancestors; would God we could be so wise as they were: and as though they had wittily concluded the matter, and with this answer stopped every man's mouth, they sit down again. As who should say, it were a very dangerous matter, if a man in any point should be found wiser than his forefathers were.

I looked up from this passage to see this thread. And I was like. More you crazy thing. You know just what to say sometimes.

Noogah, way to dodge a completely clear question and pretend you don't understand an extremely simple point. This is ridiculous.

Originally Posted by Noogah

There is a whole world out there of ghastly music, and according to you, there is an equal if not greater amount of good/artistic/beautiful/whatever-term-you-want-to-use music. Well, I never hear it, unless it's music I've dug up myself, so it would seem by this observation that the afore mentioned music that is not ghastly is becoming unpopular. And, as we have already established, it is the populous that decides what music is.

The better music may not be doomed to perish, but it certainly seems so, and it saddens me.

That is a socioeconomic matter, not an intellectual one. The making of and appreciation of music is pretty fundamental to human nature. The notion that this capacity is losing it's vitality is pretty absurd if you ask me. Good music will exist as longs as humans have the means to create it.

Noogah, what defines "good music" and "bad music" in your opinion?