Thread: Devil's Advocate

No. Why would anyone put themselves in a situation that could possibly shake their foundations and assumptions about life? It's much better to let people believe what they wish to believe, to blissfully stagnate and remain harmonious with their opinions. Creating internal discord is generally unpleasant, y'know? Besides, as the majority of the past has shown, it isn't necessary for the continuation of a society, and can even undermine one.

No.

Ok

Why would anyone put themselves in a situation that could possibly shake their foundations and assumptions about life?

Because if these foundations are infact unsturdy enough to be shaken by simply LEARNING the other options then maybe the foundation needs to be torn down. I'm just saying in order to have well rounded and more valid opinions it's only fair to weigh out the 'competition'. If you're so sure of your assumptions about life then what harm could be done by playing a lil' devil's advocate?

It's much better to let people believe what they wish to believe, to blissfully stagnate and remain harmonious with their opinions.

Fair enough, that's your opinion and I disagree.

Creating internal discord is generally unpleasant, y'know?

Wow... you're crazy. What kind of discord could come from having an open mind and adressing both sides of an issue/belief? You're making it sound like you think everyone should be willfully blind and completely disregard any argument that could come up regarding their current beliefs.

You're one of the ignorant people I was talking about! You're to afraid to even consider opening your mind to an opposing idea or belief. I'm not saying you should go "I'm a christian.... maybe I'll try being satanistic." or anything radical like that. But take this internal dialogue for example. "Well, I've been raised christian and believe the earth was created 6000-10'000 years ago and that christ will return to save us. But modern science claims 'blah blah etc etc'." I'm simply stating that one should at the very least acknowledge both sides of an argument.

If YOU are too afraid to "shake [your] foundations and assumptions about life" than that's your problem. You have a right to be blatantly ignorant of anything you want... but to be taken seriously it makes sense to at least have a concise argument for your belief in which acknowledgement and consideration are given to all sides of it.

Just 'cause your afraid of being wrong doesn't mean everyone else is. Again... I respect your opinion, but I'll take it as it is, just an opinion. Thanks for your time though!

MW

**EDIT**
Wanted to add this!
Ignorance is the state in which one lacks knowledge, is unaware of something or chooses to subjectively ignore information.
There it is... just for reference

LOL! I was just looking through my posts and found this dusty old thread.

Try again maybe?

Just re-read the OP and if you're up for it try it out!

Excellent (t)Rollin' Abra.

Actually, I believe Abra was playing devil's advocate, which was the purpose of the thread in the first place. Then MindWanderer called her crazy and ignorant which just goes to show that nobody likes to examine their ideas and beliefs from a different perspective even when their belief is that people should examine their ideas from a different perspective.

Actually, I believe Abra was playing devil's advocate, which was the purpose of the thread in the first place.

Mmmmmm... I'm not to sure about that. If it was I'm sorry... but I didn't see it that way. In my post I said take something you believe in, and argue against it. Abra didn't seem to arguing anything with herself, but with me... I simply wanted to explain to him/her the importance of understanding both sides of an argument. I'm sure if Abra was playing devil's advocate, s/he would have said so, then I'd have been a royal ass... and all would be well. But s/he just left the thread... So if s/he was, sorry for being an ass... but I saw it as him/her trying to make my idea sound wrong or stupid... so I countered with my argument.

Annnnnnywaaaaays... that's that...

edit:

which just goes to show that nobody likes to examine their ideas and beliefs from a different perspective even when their belief is that people should examine their ideas from a different perspective.

That's not completely true... I'd already examined the pro and cons of self-reflection and playing devil's advocate long before I made this thread... and as you can tell from my reply to abra I had fleshed it out pretty well and explained it to her/him. I simply saw his/her post as being hostile, and saying that my ideas stupid... and his/her argument was kinda silly... so that's why I brought up ignorance. Abra was saying in his/her post that we should even consider the other side of one of ours beliefs... and I found that rediculous.

Abra wasn't playing devil's advocate, he was just being out right sarcastic. At least I am pretty sure he was, because no one is going to argue that being ignorant is a good thing.

We can only hope Alric...

I do this on a regular basis. I have a friend who is terribly biased about many things, and i often argument against him, just to prove his bias, even though i agree with what he says.

Since a lot of people have debated this thread but not actually done it I'm going to

I believe that people should have the right to kill themselves if paralysed or have a degenerative illness.

Some counter arguments for this are that the person may not be thinking straight, people may try to claim that it wasn't murder, it was assisted suicide.

I hope this was the kind of thing you were looking for mind wanderer.

Ah yes te Devil's advocate. I can play both sides of the issue, most of the time, whatever the issue is.

Originally Posted by hawheehawhee

Since a lot of people have debated this thread but not actually done it I'm going to

I believe that people should have the right to kill themselves if paralysed or have a degenerative illness.

Some counter arguments for this are that the person may not be thinking straight, people may try to claim that it wasn't murder, it was assisted suicide.

I hope this was the kind of thing you were looking for mind wanderer.

That's exactly what I'm looking for! Being able to not just acknowledge, but understand both sides of something basically promises that you'll be devoid of any ignorance and just be a more wise person over-all. That's a great example too! So many "hot-topics" like euthanism, abortion, suicide etc are not simply black and white. To say "Abortion is wrong" is incredibly ignorant IMO... assuming you're making a generalization. Sure, certain things are right for certain people... but it's never black and white. So by learning all the counter-points to any of your own arguments you not only brace yourself for anybody fancying an argument, but you also become more wise and understanding.

I'm pretty sure Abra was being sarcastic. He seems like a pretty sane person. =P

On subject, I think more people should do stuff like this. It's good to know where people are coming from, even if you don't agree with them. In general I try to consider both sides before forming an opinion, not exactly in the form of a debate though. Maybe I'll come up with one later.

Originally Posted by mindwanderer

So, one thing I hate is when people are really one sided, ignorant, stubborn etc. An exercise I've learned to love is where I'll take something that I seem to have a pre-determined bias towards and then play devil's advocate with myself. I love fleshing out both sides of an argument...

I think it'd be neat if anyone who felt like it would take something they're for or against and play devil's advocate with themselves. Could be anything from your beliefs about a religion/practice or even just what game console is best. This is a really good thing to do regularly in your head just to keep all bases covered, and to keep your opinions as what they really are. It'd be interesting if anyone posted they're belief, and then argued against... or at least tryed to!

I understand maybe not that many people will be interested in doing this, if any... but it's worth a try!

I tend to do this compulsively in my head. I've found in many ways its a gift and a curse. Its nice to always have a fresh perspective, but I can't ever really discuss them with people. I've found those who don't do it passionately hate the devil's advocate's viewpoint .

One issue where I've tried and failed to play devil's advocate with myself is gay marriage. I know it's in the Bible and all that, but... I still don't get it. With things like abortion and gun control and whatnot I can at least understand both sides, but with this I just have no clue where they're coming from. o.o

Originally Posted by Hidden

One issue where I've tried and failed to play devil's advocate with myself is gay marriage. I know it's in the Bible and all that, but... I still don't get it. With things like abortion and gun control and whatnot I can at least understand both sides, but with this I just have no clue where they're coming from. o.o

Where who are coming from? It sounds like you don't understand those who are against gay marriage, but its not too clear.

Where the people who are against gay marriage are coming from. What their reason is for being against it. I don't understand why they think what they think, if that makes sense...

I am all for dabbling in arguing the other side. It is a great exercise in open-mindedness.

Originally Posted by Hidden

Where the people who are against gay marriage are coming from. What their reason is for being against it. I don't understand why they think what they think, if that makes sense...

Well marriage is, for the most part, a religious institution. In the U.S. at least, legal marriage is largely based on the Christian concept of marriage. The problem that people have with same sex marriage is that they believe it defeats the original purpose of marriage, which is to form a union between a man and a woman for the purpose of starting a family. There is also the issue of sodomy being a sin. Christians believe that allowing gay people to get married would be a defacto acceptance of sodomy, which they are against.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

Well marriage is, for the most part, a religious institution. In the U.S. at least, legal marriage is largely based on the Christian concept of marriage. The problem that people have with same sex marriage is that they believe it defeats the original purpose of marriage, which is to form a union between a man and a woman for the purpose of starting a family. There is also the issue of sodomy being a sin. Christians believe that allowing gay people to get married would be a defacto acceptance of sodomy, which they are against.

Yes, and gay men are adamantly against anal sex outside of marriage. As long as gay marriage is illegal, Christians have a strangle hold on sodomy.

(It's so easy to slip over that thin line between devil's advocate and satire.)

Lol!

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

Well marriage is, for the most part, a religious institution. In the U.S. at least, legal marriage is largely based on the Christian concept of marriage. The problem that people have with same sex marriage is that they believe it defeats the original purpose of marriage, which is to form a union between a man and a woman for the purpose of starting a family. There is also the issue of sodomy being a sin. Christians believe that allowing gay people to get married would be a defacto acceptance of sodomy, which they are against.

I see. -resists the urge to argue- I guess that makes sense...

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

(It's so easy to slip over that thin line between devil's advocate and satire.)

Only when you don't take anything seriously.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

Only when you don't take anything seriously.

Satire involves comedy, but it can be used as a serious form of argument. I think good satire is the most persuasive form of argument.