Thread: Calea Zacatechichi (Dream Herb)

Originally posted by queensofthestoneage
And once again someone uses that shit as an excuse...Just because people have been doing it for ages and ages before us doesn't mean it's good. People have been smoking tobacco since ever, could you bother telling me, why is it good to smoke tobacco? Or what about alcohol? Yeah it's extremely wise to get drunk...
I have nothing against certain types of drugs for certain purposes, but when people use excuses like that to do it or just want to get their heads fucked makes me hope they have the worst trip ever.

I'm sorry but you sound like a complete ass. When I come home from work, I like to light up a bowl and relax, maybe watch a movie. I'm not hurting ANYONE by doing this, it's just something I enjoy doing as a pastime. It's FUN, and I do it responsibly, at home or with friends. What's so wrong about this? Why would you wish for someone to have the "worst trip ever"? And don't give me bullshit about ruining my lungs, THEY ARE MY LUNGS, I can treat them they way I want, I know the consequences...

And as long as we're talking about things that affect your body...

Ginger is known as a digestive aid and can relieve headaches.
Avocadoes and Bananas contain Vitamin B6, a nutrient known for helping lucidity.
Milk contains trytophan, which is synthesized by the body to make serotonin. In other words, it makes you feel good.
Milk also contains Calcium and Magnesium, both relaxants.
Chocolate contains a number of feel-good chemicals. It can be as addictive as tobacco or alcohol or cocaine.
St. John's Wort, a common herb available in health stores, helps allievate depression.
Poppyseed bagels contain trace amounts of opium.

I guess to live a virtuous, drug-free life, we have to resign to living in a cardboard box and eating apples and drinking water. Wait, apples contain fruit sugar. Scratch that.

We aren't in the 80's anymore. I thought everyone realized by now Nancy Reagan's "Just Say No" propaganda is bull****.

One last thing - did you know there are two receptors in the brain specifically designed to process cannabinoids(the active components of marijuana)? Kind of makes one think.

Happy dreaming everyone.

There is also a little more information in the Pharmacy on this herb.

I too must mention its effects.

I ordered it from my usual site The Basement Shaman, and I got both the Calea Herb aswell as a special "Dream Mix" that contained Calea aswell as some other stuff.

The calea did make everything very vivid, and nearly lucid.

This I just have to comment on:

Chocolate contains a number of feel-good chemicals. It can be as addictive as tobacco or alcohol or cocaine. [/b]

I'd like to see some proof of that.

did you know there are two receptors in the brain specifically designed to process cannabinoids(the active components of marijuana)?[/b]

.......And that. I hadn't heard either of those things before. I know that chocolate can be kind of addictive in certain people, just the same way as some people are more succeptible to alcoholism. There is absolutely no way I will ever believe that it's as addictive as cocaine or tobacco, period.

Nancy Reagan's \"Just Say No\" propaganda is bull****. [/b]

Personal opinion. *Disregarding...*

I'm sorry but you sound like a complete ass. When I come home from work, I like to light up a bowl and relax, maybe watch a movie. I'm not hurting ANYONE by doing this, it's just something I enjoy doing as a pastime. It's FUN, and I do it responsibly, at home or with friends. What's so wrong about this? Why would you wish for someone to have the \"worst trip ever\"? And don't give me bullshit about ruining my lungs, THEY ARE MY LUNGS, I can treat them they way I want, I know the consequences...[/b]

Sure, I have no problem with people who do these things for fun, responsibly, in a personal setting. Just don't bother me with it, and I won't bother you. Just DON'T even get me started on second-hand smoke. I have the right to do with my lungs what I want. I will personally never do anything that is currently regarded as an illegal drug. I will never get drunk, either, if I can help it. This is a personal choice, and I'm not trying to force it on anyone else.

I guess to live a virtuous, drug-free life, we have to resign to living in a cardboard box and eating apples and drinking water. Wait, apples contain fruit sugar.[/b]

And finally, that all depends on your definition of a drug. Milk is not a drug. Sugar is not a drug. It is true that anything will have some effect on your body....

...but we don't drink milk to get high, now do we?

</my opinion>

This herb sounds neat. I definatly think I might try it.

it sounds to me like Khaz has been completely brainwashed by our society and/or his mommy. i respect your opinion, but i'm guessing that you've never done any drugs, and therefor have no right to be judging those who have. why is it that just because a drug is used in expanding your consciousness, the new understanding loses its value? if you can obtain an understanding of something while using mind altering drugs, why is it seen as the wrong thing to do? as long as one is able to apply this understanding to their life, they are succeeding. do we not want to expand our minds? lucid dreaming alters your mind and consciousness, how is that any different than what a drug can do to you. "drugs" have played serious roles in many successful civilizations throughout history, like mayans, native americans, etc, and by successful i don't necessarily just mean successful with money and technology, i mean that these people had a much clearer understanding of life and of the self, which in my opinion, is success. i think the stereotypical drug user's image is giving you a completely conditioned and one-sided opinion on the whole issue. maybe you need to go eat some mushrooms and smoke a bowl. i garuntee you'll think differently, and more intelligently.

i think the stereotypical drug user's image is giving you a completely conditioned and one-sided opinion on the whole issue. maybe you need to go eat some mushrooms and smoke a bowl. i garuntee you'll think differently, and more intelligently.[/b]

Unfortunatly this seems to happen alot, and I never ever tell or force someone to do drugs, drink, smoke, etc... yet I never lie about my own experiences. I've had some bad trips, and atleast one nasty reaction from drugs in my life, and the only reason both of those happened is because I was being Stupid- however the countless things I have gained is priceless, and with knowledge you can prevent bad reactions.

So my view on it is, I won't tell you you're wrong, if you don't tell me I'm wrong or put me with the stereotypes.

Within the last year I owe a great great portion of my understanding to the the collective mind of McKenna, and his posits on the history of the Mushroom and our own Intelligent evolution.

Anyway...


P.S. Whilst pondering this post I decided I needed to add two more things.

Use, and Learn- if you aren't using it to learn you should possibly consider you're motives. The only time I don't follow this rule is with Cannabis and social Alcohol. I still gain from Pot, but I admit for the most part I smoke to relax and get high- however its worth mentioning I only smoke socially (which is a fair bit...).

I decided long ago not to try any Opiates or Amphetamines, as they probably wouldn't offer anything as fart as knowledge, and while I have displayed no addictive tendencys I would rather not risk it.


P.P.S. Upon re-reading Khaz's post I noticed another rampant problem among drug users,. There is the Radical, the Intellectual, and the Vehement. Ofcourse there is a 'in between' but for this situation it doesn't matter. The Radicals try to push their love of drugs or their want for us to ALL do drugs very hard, thus we get people stating:

Chocolate contains a number of feel-good chemicals. It can be as addictive as tobacco or alcohol or cocaine.[/b]

and/or

Nancy Reagan's \"Just Say No\" propaganda is bull****.[/b]

Neither of those statements are productive to ANY party. Cocaine is surely addictive, look at Charlie Sheen. However, alot of that addiction is purely based on the Self Control of the user, A close friend of mine does Coke every now and then and has had no problem with it, however the High has been described as "Speedy, and a Intense Urge to do more." So why bother?

Nancy Reagan is, for the most part, right. She may not have known crap about drugs, but for the most part the average American should just say no.

Im with Classico on his comment " if you aren't using it to learn you should possibly consider you're motives ", and think that if its harmful to your body whats the damn point? I say I cant force my views or opinions on people but when what they do affects others its time to stop ie: smoking in public and, drinking and driving.

Let's try and get back to topic though as this has become an opinionated flame on drugs. I dont know much about Calea Zacatechichi, just sounds like any other tea I may drink except it tastes like ass and causes vividness as opposed to say chamomile for relaxation. Does this have any documented negative results on the body and mind (long term or short)?

I did a good bit of cross-referencing on CZ last night, and was persuaded to order some, so I'll let you all know of my experiences with it.

My main focus of search was side-effects. Fortunately, I was surprised to see that, not only could I find no side-effects, but was constantly greeted (often in bold) with "There are No reported side effects, long- or short-term." So I gotta say I feel pretty good about that.

Of course, I'm still going to be searching around for more information on it it, but everything I've read, so far, seems pretty positive. I figure it's worth a shot. 8)

Cool can't wait to hear some more experiences with it. Maybe I'll do some research and order some myself.

Alright. As I seem to be a non-drug-using minority here, I won't even bother trying to argue. This post will be the last thing I say on the subject of other drugs here. Please do send me a PM if you wish to argue further, where things are free to get out of hand. If you aren't already involved, you don't have to read any more of this post.

I appreciate the logical points of view presented by Classico and h0ju on the subject. jackonaut, on the other hand, has irritated me quite severely...

it sounds to me like Khaz has been completely brainwashed by our society and/or his mommy.[/b]

Lies. I make my own decisions, and I stand by them. Just because my parents didn't do drugs doesn't mean I was \"brainwashed by them\".

'm guessing that you've never done any drugs, and therefor have no right to be judging those who have. [/b]

You're guessing right. But if I don't have the right to at least put forth my opinion, then who can judge you? Only you can, and that's not a fair jury if I do say so. Do you have to be a murderer to judge a murderer? Of course not! (Let the record show I AM NOT calling people who use drugs equivalent to murderers.)

\"drugs\" have played serious roles in many successful civilizations throughout history, like mayans, native americans, etc, and by successful i don't necessarily just mean successful with money and technology, i mean that these people had a much clearer understanding of life and of the self, which in my opinion, is success.[/b]

Just because they did it doesn't make it right. Also, prove they had a clearer understanding \"of life and of the self\". Maybe they just think they did. If we don't completely understand it now, how can we say they did?

lucid dreaming alters your mind and consciousness, how is that any different than what a drug can do to you.[/b]

Simple. Lucid dreaming is using your mind and willpower to alter your consciousness. Drugs are using artificial substances to do so.

i think the stereotypical drug user's image is giving you a completely conditioned and one-sided opinion on the whole issue. maybe you need to go eat some mushrooms and smoke a bowl. i garuntee you'll think differently, and more intelligently.[/b]

I pride myself on my ability to avoid stereotypes. I have an open mind, I have done research, and I have concluded that drugs are not for me. Your encouragement for me to "eat some mushrooms and smoke a bowl" just makes me more convinced I don't want to, lest I should end up like you. Your "garuntee" that I'll think more intelligently just makes me more convinced that you don't know what you're talking about, as does your complete lack of capitol letters. Remember, when on drugs, consider that you may just think you're smarter...

Had you addressed me more politely, jackonaut, I would have done the same to you. However, due to the fact that you seem already convinced that you're right, as well as that you don't seem to hear logic, I see no need to be polite. I save my manners for those who I think deserve them.

If I have made one single unarguably false statement, then let someone step forward and call me a fool. Everything I've heard on the side of drug use is all opinion, unprovable or trivial. If you have something other than that to say, say it to my face in a PM, or just plain shut up.

For all the decent people who read all of what I just posted, I am profoundly sorry, but I simply had to say it. I may have been carried away by anger, but I refuse to take back what I have just typed, as I meant every word.

khaz, i apologize for my attitude and sarcasm in the last post. however i still feel strongly about this and won't back down from what i've said. everything i've mentioned in the post is what i believe to be true. i personally feel that if you can take something away from a drug induced experience and apply it to your sober, normal life, then you have succeeded in expanding your awareness. when i say expanding awareness i'm really talking about bettering one's self on a mental or spiritual level. i understand how drug use may go against someone's morals, and i respect that. however, i don't feel that i have done any less work than someone who does not use "drugs" (i hate this label), nor do i find any of my realizations while under the influence to be any less meaningful.

i still feel that without having ever experienced mind altering drugs, one's opinion on them has less meaning, because they are unable to relate at the same level. it's like a baby saying they hate brussel sprouts without having ever tried them. < and i know this from experience, they're actually pretty delicious.

p.s. i may not capitalize my letters, but my grammar and punctuation is usually on point.

Originally posted by jackonaut
khaz, i apologize for my attitude and sarcasm in the last post. however i still feel strongly about this and won't back down from what i've said. everything i've mentioned in the post is what i believe to be true. i personally feel that if you can take something away from a drug induced experience and apply it to your sober, normal life, then you have succeeded in expanding your awareness. when i say expanding awareness i'm really talking about bettering one's self on a mental or spiritual level. i understand how drug use may go against someone's morals, and i respect that. however, i don't feel that i have done any less work than someone who does not use \"drugs\" (i hate this label), nor do i find any of my realizations while under the influence to be any less meaningful.

i still feel that without having ever experienced mind altering drugs, one's opinion on them has less meaning, because they are unable to relate at the same level. it's like a baby saying they hate brussel sprouts without having ever tried them. < and i know this from experience, they're actually pretty delicious.

p.s. i may not capitalize my letters, but my grammar and punctuation is usually on point.

Wow. That is the most mature response I've ever gotten to one of my ranting sprees. Way to make me feel bad.

Anyways, I appreciate your response, as I think you actually listened to what I had to say. I will most likely never try any of these drugs, and so I will never see entirely from your point of view. I know we will probably never see eye to eye on the subject, but I appreciate your respect of my stance.

And yes, your typing is not NEARLY as bad as some I've seen...

Also, brussel sprouts are disgusting, and that I HAVE had experience with...

Well, I'd say the first night went pretty well. Though I can't recall the events of the dream(s) (I only got about 5 hours of sleep) what I Can say is that the HI that you get off of Calea Z is AMAZING. I've always had the partial HI that disappears the second you thought wavers, but Calea gave me the best HI I've ever had. Hands down. It felt like I was deep into visual and auditory hallucinations for a good 45 minutes or so. I distinctly remember dreaming, and I distinctly remember that the dream(s) was noticably stronger than normal, but due to the lack of recall, I'm going to mainly say that the first night of Z testing offered not too much more than great relaxation, and some incredible hypnogogic imagery before falling asleep. But then again, that isn't necessarily a bad thing, either. I'll let everyone know how tonight goes.

Seems like it has benefits already... Please do share tomorrow

LMFAO. Now I know why I'm not a scientist.
I can't even discipline myself enough to get enough sleep to test the variable. LOL. (Ok, so that is only one of many reasons. :finger: )

Anyway, I got about 5 hrs of sleep again. I slept through my alarm clock (which I haven't done in a Long time) and was almost late for work. This sucks because my first thought upon waking up was "OH SHIT I'm going to be LATE!!!" and I couldn't take too much time to sit in bed and retrace my dream steps.

Although, I can report that last night's experiences were similar to the night before. Amazing hypnogogia and relaxation. I remember dreaming, though I can't recall how vivid and/or lucid it was. I doubt I was lucid, though.

I'm not drawing any conclusions for a few days. This is the weekend before my birthday, and odds are I will have more than Calea in my system. Lol. So it would be unethical for me to base my opinion of Calea off of this weekend. Though I'll say, when I usually get plastered, I don't recall my dreams very well, and it is very seldom that I have an Intensely Vivid dream after a weekend of partying. But I'm going to keep smoking the Calea regularly until this batch is gone, so we'll see if it does have any effect over the weekend, though I don't think it will be likely.

LOL (thats all I had to say)

I wouldn't say it's a drug really. It's just a plant. It's not classified as a drug and it is legal.... [/b]

From Erowid:

Effective Aug 8, 2005 (signed into law Jun 28, 2005) Louisiana Act No 159 makes 40 plants illegal, including Calea zacatechichi, when intended for human consumption. The law specifically excludes the \"possession, planting, cultivation, growing, or harvesting\" of these plants if used \"strictly for aesthetic, landscaping, or decorative purposes.\" (Text of HLS_05RS-52 and Update June 2005)[/b]

Due to levels of sleep (or lack thereof) that are counterproductive to the experiment, dream recall has been slightly hindered for the past few days. Its been a party week. What can I say? LOL. HOWEVER, though the contents of my dreams have been almost always lost from transition into the waking world, lately, as reflected by my unproductive recent journal activity, I can say with the utmost confidence that my HI and dream vividness has been standing out more and more with each passing day. I've had hypno-imagery that borders on drug-induced hallucinations and what bits and peices of my dreams I have recalled, despite not writing them all down, have been giving me the impression of deeper, longer, and more restful dream sequences. The other night, I've even tied my record for most dreams remembered upon waking, which came up to four that I could definitely recall, and the distinct feeling of having had More than those intial four, but having lost them upon waking.
So far, I can attest that the Calea is definitely working to intensify dream sequences, even though I don't think the blunt or two during the evening is matching the amount of Calea i would be ingesting if I made up a batch of the tea. Thats alright, though, because I can already tell that it is working with the probably less than adequate doses I'm taking now, and I'll probably be upping the dosage a little bit to see if it helps.

Khaz, you make the mistake of simplifying all mind-altering substances as "drugs". And for most people, the word "drug" immediately conjures up images of harmful, addictive, easily-abused substances. This is called stereotyping. You're trying to make the issue black and white when it isn't.

Saying you've "researched drugs and determined they aren't for me" is like saying amusement parks aren't for you because, although you've never actually been to an amusement park, you know people have died as a result of faulty roller coaster designs.

I could understand your viewpoint if you were simply against illegal drugs. If you want to be a law-abiding citizen, that's fine. But I still don't get what your problem is with Calea Zacatechichi and other legal substances. How is it "wrong" to burn a legal(unless you live in Louisiana) plant that may or may not increase the vividness of your dreams? Seriously, enlighten me here. So far what I've gotten is that you think it's wrong because it's an outside substance. Which says nothing.

...but we don't drink milk to get high, now do we?[/b]

I dunno, we get our milk from a local farm, and it's pretty damn good. Seriously though, is getting high the morally wrong part? People get \"high\" from watching a really good movie. People get high from eating chocolate. People get high from having sex. And all of these things depend on an outside source. What's the world coming to, eh? (yes, i realize this isn't the same kind of \"high\" gained from cannabis and others, but it's the same idea - a state of happiness coupled with release of endorphins)

Also, prove they had a clearer understanding \"of life and of the self\". Maybe they just think they did. [/b]

This shows your naivete about what you're talking about. I don't know about everyone else here, but cannabis alone gives me immense clarity of mind and intuition that allows me incredible understanding of myself, my life, and the world around me. Stronger things, like Salvia Divinorum(legal, btw) have given me life-changing insights. I can't prove this stuff to you any more than I can prove that I'm not wearing a hat right now. We just have to trust each other, right?

A final note - remember the old saying, Khaz... everything in moderation.

Ah, almost forgot...

Originally posted by Khaz

did you know there are two receptors in the brain specifically designed to process cannabinoids(the active components of marijuana)?

.......And that. I hadn't heard either of those things before. [/b]

They're called CB1 and CB2.
http://www.annieappleseedproject.org/canna...nabinoids1.html
http://www.4adi.com/flr/cannabinoidflr.html
http://www.cannabis.net/cb1/
http://apu.sfn.org/content/Publications/Br...rain_stash.html

I'd go more into this, but I don't want to spark a big discussion about marijuana, that doesn't belong on this board or topic.

And yeah, I realize I was exaggerating by comparing chocolate to harder drugs, but my point was that if you're going to condemn something for simply being a drug, that includes things like chocolate and sugar. Chocolate is a stimulant and can be addictive and harmful in large amounts, just like almost any other stimulant.

i either just killed the topic or owned it.

Yup, most anti-drug crusaders lump everything up- aswell as typecast every drug user as some sort of deviant.