Thread: Nothing Matters / All is Extraordinarily Special

Originally Posted by tommo

Philosopher8659 - Turning every debate in to an argument about language since November 2007.

Exactly. Finally someone said it.

Originally Posted by Dianeva

Exactly. Finally someone said it.

You give me way too much credit.
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A superior man, in regard to what he does not know, shows a cautious reserve. If names be not correct, language is not in accordance with the truth of things. If language be not in accordance with the truth of things, affairs cannot be carried on to success. When affairs cannot be carried on to success, proprieties and music do not flourish. When proprieties and music do not flourish, punishments will not be properly awarded. When punishments are not properly awarded, the people do not know how to move hand or foot. Therefore a superior man considers it necessary that the names he uses may be spoken appropriately, and also that what he speaks may be carried out appropriately. What the superior man requires is just that in his words there may be nothing incorrect.
Analects of Confucius.
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The dialogs of Plato were all about the use of language, So is Scripture.
If we cannot use language correctly--we cannot live our life correctly--it is the only job the mind has.

The mark of the beast, on the forehead and hands, is only a metaphor for how well you think determines how well you do. They are the same marks in the Law.

Originally Posted by tommo

Hm. I disagreed with this at first, but then I thought about it and I might just have to agree. Because the universe is infinitely expanding, but since it theoretically would go on infinitely, that means that anything could also stop it from doing so, since whatever would stop it has infinity to do so, and hence it is not infinite. Like the "infinite number of monkeys typing on an infinite number of typewriters for an infinite number of years would type the Encyclopedia Britannica" thing.

But what if the universe expands but starts to contract at a certain point? What if the universe is only part of something bigger than its self?

Originally Posted by saltyseedog

But what if the universe expands but starts to contract at a certain point? What if the universe is only part of something bigger than its self?

Then you would have the bad 33 1/3 rpm record effect. The Universe would be part of the Univerese, would be part of the Universe, would be part of the. . . . At some point someone would get annoyed and simply bump the machine.

Trying to get anything out of this life, this world, that will bring happiness to you is pointless. Trying for any personal gain is pointless. The selfish and the greedy will always be very disappointed and disillusioned. Everything you have attained will be lost. In this sense nothing matters. But enjoying your relationships, sharing in transitory good times with friends, family, and strangers, being an agent of happiness and healing and learning is extraordinary. And these experiences all add up to make you who you really are. You can never learn too much, love too much, etc. It is in giving that we receive, it is in loving that we are loved.

Lao Tzu says "Other people are contented, enjoying the sacrificial feast of the ox.
In spring some go to the park, and climb the terrace,
But I alone am drifting, not knowing where I am.
Like a newborn babe before it learns to smile,
I am alone, without a place to go.
Others have more than they need, but I alone have nothing.
I am a fool. Oh, yes! I am confused.
Others are clear and bright,
But I alone am dim and weak.
Others are sharp and clever,
But I alone am dull and stupid.
Oh, I drift like the waves of the sea,
Without direction, like the restless wind.
Everyone else is busy,
But I alone am aimless and depressed.
I am different.
I am nourished by the great mother."

Being an ordinary being is the most extraordinary thing there is. Everyone is trying to become. Everyone is full of striving and ambition. Nobody is just being.

that sounds like my state of being

Me too.

But what if the universe expands but starts to contract at a certain point? What if the universe is only part of something bigger than its self?

We're pretty sure that doesn't happen.

Everything becomes one and one becomes everything. It cannot stay separate forever. Everything always has been, but it divides itself over and over forever. Everything is part of something larger. Our souls are the divided energy of another entity, while our dream characters are the divided energy of ourselves. Souls created the physical universe by dividing their energy and manifesting it on the dream plane, then the astral plane, then the physical plane. They created souls for the entire universe. One soul for the entire universe then many individuated souls of that soul, taking the form of galaxies, solar systems, planets. The physical universe was created as a game within the dreamplane. Our power is limited here, it is like playing a challenging video game. Souls from other "places" came to the physical universe to try out this game. Incarnating as living creatures as vehicles. Souls with different energy coming from different "places" incarnate as different creatures. Many souls became lost in this game. Returning from the physical planet onto the dream body of the planet they would not Know it was a dream, or they would not know how to leave the planet and and stop incarnating. If they did not know the planet would force them to incarnate again. Many did not know how to return to the "place" they came from before they came "here" Souls became lost. They did not know what was happening. They were not able to figure out how to get out. We came here to have fun, but we have forgotten who we are.
We may go anywhere. We are free. We think we have to be something or have something or do something but in reality we can be whatever we want. On the dream plane anything physical can be experienced. We can leave this place. We can come back if we want. We are free. We are just souls hopping from plane to plane. We came here because we want something. What do you want? You must look deep in your heart to know this.

Originally Posted by Dianeva

In my life, so far, I've observed too many times the feeling of something being right leading me astray. That way of knowing is too uncertain. We want supernatural things to be true, so our minds will try to make us believe them. Our minds are very powerful and capable of inducing strong feelings that things are true when they aren't. Like when people take drugs and feel a oneness with the universe, which they've pinned down in a laboratory to be a specific thing happening in the brain. Maybe you have a better reason than I do for believing in these non-logic truths, and you've experienced things that you somehow know are informing you about the truth, and are not just happenings in your brain. But until I experience something like that myself, it seems more likely to me that you're simply unaware of how good the brain is at making it seem like something supernatural is happening, of how powerful your brain is at inducing the feelings. That, or you just don't care about truth.

Would your definition of a feeling that IS true be one that doesn't have any corresponding affect in the brain?

How come if some people don't believe something they call it supernatural? As "If I don't believe what you believe then what you believe in is supernatural and therefore not real and therefore I don't believe it." It is circular self referencing faulty logic. But so is "I know it because I know it" but at least he didn't claim it was logic or rational. But it is logical anyway. The Universe looks just like a brain cell. If infinity goes outwards why cannot it go inwards? What if they found the smallest particle and split it in half? What about fractals and the fractal model of the Universe that is a valid scientific theory based on logic?

Scientists are not the only ones who know how reality works, they are just the ones in the business to PROVE how it works. It is foolish and limiting to ask a non-scientist to give scientific proof of how he knows what he knows. There is a thing called intuition, but you don't believe in that because it happens in the brain. But so does rationality and logic happen in the left side of the brain. There are more than one way to know something. But it is fine if you don't believe in whatever you hear. But we give our faith too much to scientists when they don't even know what they are talking about. My next post in this thread is about that.

Originally Posted by saltyseedog

But what if the universe expands but starts to contract at a certain point? What if the universe is only part of something bigger than its self?

In fact there is a new theory that disputes the Big Bang. There are some things apparently that don't make sense with the Big Bang theory. Don't ask me. But I heard that a new theory is starting to gain popularity is that this whole Universe we find ourselves in is really inside a black hole in another Universe and that is why it is expanding. I don't know and I just wish they would keep quiet and let me know when they figure it out instead of putting false beliefs into our heads. We accept with faith whatever these scientists say when they themselves don't even know. If this Universe is really inside a black hole in another Universe, that would be about as cool if everything came out of nothing.

Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

In fact there is a new theory that disputes the Big Bang. There are some things apparently that don't make sense with the Big Bang theory. Don't ask me. But I heard that a new theory is starting to gain popularity is that this whole Universe we find ourselves in is really inside a black hole in another Universe and that is why it is expanding. I don't know and I just wish they would keep quiet and let me know when they figure it out instead of putting false beliefs into our heads. We accept with faith whatever these scientists say when they themselves don't even know. If this Universe is really inside a black hole in another Universe, that would be about as cool if everything came out of nothing.

Follow the thought out to its rational conclusion, as I did long ago. When it was said I could be whatever I wanted. I studied the books and theories and realized, they did not know when they were talkling sense or non-sense. What is wrong with that picture? The only reason you don't know what you are building with a tool is you have no idea of how to use it.

These arguments that pit one class of people against another--is that sane? The foundation is the same language set. A thing is not different from itself--a language cannot contradict itself nor can two languages contradict each other--their foundation is the same reality. No one reallizes that they are just like fools in a sanitarium.

The grand test, the grand scientific test of repeatability--hell man cannot say the same thing twice!

Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

In fact there is a new theory that disputes the Big Bang. There are some things apparently that don't make sense with the Big Bang theory. Don't ask me. But I heard that a new theory is starting to gain popularity is that this whole Universe we find ourselves in is really inside a black hole in another Universe and that is why it is expanding. I don't know and I just wish they would keep quiet and let me know when they figure it out instead of putting false beliefs into our heads. We accept with faith whatever these scientists say when they themselves don't even know. If this Universe is really inside a black hole in another Universe, that would be about as cool if everything came out of nothing.

That black hole theory sounds pretty interesting but unlike the big bang theory it sounds completely theoretical and lacking in evidence. Do you know what it is called?

Well there is the Ekpyrotic Universe theory which basically says that our current universe is a result of two universes colliding.

If you don't want to have "faith" in scientists then become a scientist so that way you no longer have to rely on "experts opinions".

Originally Posted by stormcrow

If you don't want to have "faith" in scientists then become a scientist so that way you no longer have to rely on "experts opinions".

I would if it actually really mattered to me how the Universe was created. What matters to me more is what my consciousness is (and what love is) and the origins of consciousness (and the origins of love), the location of consciousness (and the location of love), the properties of consciousness (and the properties of love), and the potential of consciousness (and the potential of love). So I have become a meditator and a lucid dreamer and a healer and a musician. I don't have faith in anything but what I figure out for myself. But the mysteries of consciousness are tied together with the mysteries of the Universe. Discover the secrets of one and you learn the secrets of the other. One is subjective and the other is objective. In our modern dualistic paradigm we pit one against the other, as if they are contradictory rather than complementary. As if existence isn't big enough for both. "Yes there are two paths you can go by, but in the long run, there's still time to change the road you're on." -Led Zeppelin, Stairway to Heaven

For real. Everyones trying to understand everything but they don't even understand themselves.