Thread: What if there is something outside the universe?

I don't think that's quite true juroara. Afaik, (I've never actually read any books about it, just what I've been told and articles I've read etc.) the big bang theory also contains an explanation of how this point appeared. It has something to do with tiny particles that randomly appear and disappear. I have no idea how that's possible.

Jesus fuck, every time I think about it, like just then, my mind does something very strange lol.

Just to expand(sort of) on my idea about another universe being completely different. I have realised it might be hard for some people to even understand what I'm talking about. I have noticed scientists, when trying to figure out the chance of life on other planets, always assume all life is made from carbon, so there has to be water on a planet for it to sustain life, because all life forms that we know which are made from carbon need water to live. This is wroooong.
The chances are, in another universe, life has arisen out of some other thing. So it wouldn't need water or oxygen etc.
Even this fact alone could change that whole universe and the way those beings perceive it. Maybe they know exactly how this thing was created, maybe they don't. Maybe it's so fucking simple, but because of our model of the universe we just can't figure it out.

Maybe I'm MAD!

EDIT: Oh yeah, just realised I went wayyy off topic.
The original post was about something being outside the universe. Please proceed to room 12A to continue arguing about that.

Originally Posted by HaRd_WiReD

Hehe, I've thought about that too. When I was a kid I thought maybe we are just like germs on some MASSIVE giant being's skin. Then later I thought maybe we are just a thought inside someone's head. ^
I dunno though. Probably less likely than multiple universes.
Also a lot of things look similar when you magnify or shrink them.
You will notice that they aren't exactly the same. They just both have blobs that are connected to other blobs by streams of blobs. Of course the blobs aren't just blobs but I assume everyone knows what they are.

The basic problem i have with this thread is the notion that if there is something outside of this universe, then there is a boundary, a wall where this Universe ends and whatever else is on the other side begins. I think the biological equivalent is a membrane.

I can't see that happening. To me the universe is infinite and boundless, perhaps it is not but its scope is too great for the average mind to comprehend.

I very much doubt that this universe is a closed system with a definite boundary separating it and its contents (energy) from whatever other entity ,or universe that permeates the border/boundary. On the other hand, my doubts probably stem from my inability to comprehend such a thing, and my limited education in regards to the matter at hand.

Well how is that a problem with this thread?
That's just a very important view point to bring up in this thread. Which just makes it all the more interesting. Am I right?

As far as scientists know, our universe is one of these shapes.




Outside of it is nothing. And it is constantly expanding, but not infinite as you state.

So if it is expanding, there HAS to be something on the other side, or more exactly, nothing on the other side. Unless the universe is consuming or covering up something else which is outside it as it expands.

I don't think there's any doubt that the universe is expanding. I wouldn't define this as infinite. If you think it actually is infinite, why do you say that?

So theoretically if we could get to the edge of our universe and go beyond it - we'd have to travel much faster than the speed of light, since the universe already has a ~14 billion year head start - we could see what is beyond it.

And someone said according to science we can't travel faster than the speed of light. But that's fucking bullshit. We can't NOW. But we will be able to. There's no doubt in my mind.

Oh yeah. The traveling outside.... the problem might be that it is similar to the Earth. You travel in a car you can't really jump off the edge of the sphere at any point and fall into space. This is because of gravity of course. But imagine that is what the universe is like. You try to fly to the edge but you end up going round and round. Something to ponder. Not sure if it's true.

Originally Posted by Soros

The basic problem i have with this thread is the notion that if there is something outside of this universe, then there is a boundary, a wall where this Universe ends and whatever else is on the other side begins. I think the biological equivalent is a membrane.

I can't see that happening. To me the universe is infinite and boundless, perhaps it is not but its scope is too great for the average mind to comprehend.

I very much doubt that this universe is a closed system with a definite boundary separating it and its contents (energy) from whatever other entity ,or universe that permeates the border/boundary. On the other hand, my doubts probably stem from my inability to comprehend such a thing, and my limited education in regards to the matter at hand.

Most people would define the "end of the universe" as the point where all matter and energy resulting from the Big Bang ceases to exist. It may not be a definite "membrane," but it is a defining limit. A lot of people tend to confuse "infinite" with "infinitely expanding." The universe has a finite amount of matter and energy within it, but is not infinite in size. It has a "border" of sorts; not a physical one, but it is there.

Originally Posted by tommo

Hehe, I've thought about that too. When I was a kid I thought maybe we are just like germs on some MASSIVE giant being's skin. Then later I thought maybe we are just a thought inside someone's head. ^
I dunno though. Probably less likely than multiple universes.
Also a lot of things look similar when you magnify or shrink them.
You will notice that they aren't exactly the same. They just both have blobs that are connected to other blobs by streams of blobs. Of course the blobs aren't just blobs but I assume everyone knows what they are.

Each cell in your body contains an exact copy of the universe. The universe is a hologram, but our brain filters out things and limits us to 5 senses.

Originally Posted by HaRd_WiReD

Each cell in your body contains an exact copy of the universe. The universe is a hologram, but our brain filters out things and limits us to 5 senses.

Prove it.

I don't think there's any doubt that the universe is expanding. I wouldn't define this as infinite. If you think it actually is infinite, why do you say that I don't think there's any doubt that the universe is expanding. I wouldn't define this as infinite. If you think it actually is infinite, why do you say that

@Tommo and Mario, thanks for explaining this stuff to me. It's something i don't know much about but would like to.

If the Universe's edge is defined as the farthest reaches where one can find matter and beyond which nothing else is present, then wouldn't the universe be infinite in possible scope?

If the universe is currently finite, but it is expanding and that which lies beyond it is nothingness, then the more it expands, the bigger it gets, and since there is nothingness beyond it then wouldn't that mean that there is probably an endless amount of expansion that it can do?

Sorry if i mangled my words a bit. I hope i made myself somewhat understandable.

Basically i'm saying that even if the universe is not infinite, the growth which it can attain is infinite because beyond it is an infinite amount of space for it to expand into. Is that right?

Given an infinite amount of time, the universe will expand to infinite proportions. Provided, of course, that "dark matter" is a crock and we aren't looking toward a "big crunch" anytime soon. If our universe is destined to fizzle, though, then it will continue expanding outward indefinitely, possibly colliding with other universes, possibly not. Then there's the argument that there really are multiple universes, but they are not within our "dimension" in a way; that is, they exist, but completely separately of our version of reality, if that makes sense. To put it another way, they are on a separate "plane." We could build a spaceship that travels impossibly fast, beyond the borders of our universe, and explore the void beyond and find nothing at all. The other universe would not be contained within this reality, but in a separate and unique reality, virtually impossible to reach through conventional means.

This is all just pure speculation, but kinda fun to think about anyway.

Originally Posted by Soros

If the Universe's edge is defined as the farthest reaches where one can find matter and beyond which nothing else is present, then wouldn't the universe be infinite in possible scope?

Yes, possible scope. But atm afawk it isn't infinite. But it's possible scope is. See mario's post for variables.

Originally Posted by Soros

If the universe is currently finite, but it is expanding and that which lies beyond it is nothingness, then the more it expands, the bigger it gets, and since there is nothingness beyond it then wouldn't that mean that there is probably an endless amount of expansion that it can do?

Probably. There's one problem I have with this though. Which I just thought of before. The universe as we define it, is all the matter; stars, planets, people, other animals, trees, black holes, air etc. Within space there is all these aforementioned things existing. Around these objects, there is nothing. Space is a 'vacuum', meaning no particles of oxygen or anything, outside of these objects. Which is probably why we call it 'space'.
So by 'space expanding', people don't mean this black stuff with stars and other crap in it spreading outwards. What is meant is that the objects are going outwards, they started going outwards from the big bang. At the edges of the universe there is probably just dust particles and no planets because there is not enough matter left to accumulate in to planets. I'm kinda going off track a bit, but it may be pertinent, not sure.
The point is, though, that I find it hard to contemplate what it is that is actually expanding. We only know the universe is expanding by examining the objects IN space. They are slowly drifting apart. Our planet and the others in our solar system are slowly getting further and further away from each other. But we can't actually see the universe expanding without these objects.

So.... it's hard to imagine how 'space' or our universe is expanding still if there are no objects left at the edges of the universe to tell. Because space is nothing, and outside the universe, we're assuming there is nothing either! Get what I'm saying?

So I think something is missing from our theory atm.

I've also wondered why space is black. Since space is nothing, there should be no colour in between all the planets and stars etc. It should look like air, in between them. Maybe it's all the other galaxies and black holes and whatever absorbing all the light. I might have to re-think that though. Coz light being beamed in to the atmosphere by stars/suns might look the same as a black object absorbing light. But I'm pretty sure it shouldn't.

Originally Posted by Soros

Sorry if i mangled my words a bit. I hope i made myself somewhat understandable.

S'all good. Sometimes it's hard to articulate properly when thinking about these things, coz it's so mind blowing I've found. But you did fine lol

Originally Posted by juroara

well the big bang only tries to explain how this infinite point of energy became everything that we know of today - the known universe

but the big bang is not a theory that explains how everything was created

it relies on this infinite point of energy to have already existed before the creation of the universe. where this point came from, how long it was an infinite point, isn't something the big bang tries to explain

it's not the theory of the infinite point - just the theory of it's bang

even thinking about how this infinite point expands and becomes everything in the known universe is mind numbing enough!

Originally Posted by tommo

I don't think that's quite true juroara. Afaik, (I've never actually read any books about it, just what I've been told and articles I've read etc.) the big bang theory also contains an explanation of how this point appeared. It has something to do with tiny particles that randomly appear and disappear. I have no idea how that's possible.

Jesus fuck, every time I think about it, like just then, my mind does something very strange lol.

Just to expand(sort of) on my idea about another universe being completely different. I have realised it might be hard for some people to even understand what I'm talking about. I have noticed scientists, when trying to figure out the chance of life on other planets, always assume all life is made from carbon, so there has to be water on a planet for it to sustain life, because all life forms that we know which are made from carbon need water to live. This is wroooong.
The chances are, in another universe, life has arisen out of some other thing. So it wouldn't need water or oxygen etc.
Even this fact alone could change that whole universe and the way those beings perceive it. Maybe they know exactly how this thing was created, maybe they don't. Maybe it's so fucking simple, but because of our model of the universe we just can't figure it out.

Maybe I'm MAD!

EDIT: Oh yeah, just realised I went wayyy off topic.
The original post was about something being outside the universe. Please proceed to room 12A to continue arguing about that.

M-theory explains a lot at the present moment. There's supposedly a whole lot of data that lines up perfectly. It's still going to need a whole hell of a lot of research, but I think it holds water.