Animal Suicide

[SpecialInterests]

Ok, not a popular topic I admit, but suicide is interesting, and I've wondered before if other animals beside humans were capable of taking their own lives intentionally. Apparently, according to this time magazine article : http://www.time.com/time/health/arti...973486,00.html animal suicide has been a long debated topic. It makes references to historical figures like Aristotle contemplating the matter. The Romans, allegedly, quite frequently referenced the horse as being suicidal. Apparently there's been accounts of all sorts of animals showing suicidal tendencies, such as scorpions repetitively stinging themselves in the back when surrounded by flames, etc. Do you think some animals are capable of making the decision to take their own life? Do they even understand what it is to live, or die?

[Alric]

I don't really think a dolphin can just stop breathing. Humans are not really capable of that either. Seeing as they live in the water, their breathing should be even better controlled by automatic functions to prevent accidently drowning. Basically they would have to be able to consciously just flip off their subconcious controls that would try to force them to move to the surface and breath. Which there really isn't any evolutionary reason for them to do. With scorpions, it sounds more like a twitch or automatic reaction. The fire likely doing something which causes the tail to strike forward own its own. Horse can be really well trained as well, and I believe they can be trained to do suicidal things, which makes sense since they are often trained for war and charging into a guy with a spear pointed at you is pretty stupid. You also have to take into account an animal can be mentally retarded or have actual genetic problems or a disease that impares brain functions. Which may cause it to do something insanely stupid, or act oddly but doesn't really prove sucide.

[Lucidness]

Animals cannot commit suicide. They have no free will. They act on Instincts.

[Xei]

Humans are animals; humans act on instincts. When dolphins jump into the air or a dog rolls over on its back to be scratched, do you really think this is solely for some kind of evolutionary advantage?

[AURON]

This topic made me want to google beached whales. I think all animals have the natural instinct of self preservation, so I believe they understand what it is to live and die. I'm not sure about the conscious decision to kill themselves though. Maybe in terms of sacrifice for the greater cause like most bees, ants, and other insects.

[Oneironaut Zero]

I would have a harder time believing that humans were the only animals capable of suicide, than that it was something widespread, throughout the animal kingdom - especially among "higher lifeforms" (though I hate that label). As far as the scorpions, wouldn't it be more reasonable to assume that the scorpions intentionally sting themselves, rather than that the fire somehow makes the tail involuntarily sting its host (rather than sting in front of its host, which is the tail's natural arc)?

[Lucidness]

Humans are animals; humans act on instincts. When dolphins jump into the air or a dog rolls over on its back to be scratched, do you really think this is solely for some kind of evolutionary advantage? Yes, we do. But not as much as animals. We are then able to rationalize our fears ect.

[Specialis Sapientia]

I don't really think a dolphin can just stop breathing. Humans are not really capable of that either. Seeing as they live in the water, their breathing should be even better controlled by automatic functions to prevent accidently drowning. Basically they would have to be able to consciously just flip off their subconcious controls that would try to force them to move to the surface and breath. Which there really isn't any evolutionary reason for them to do. Dolphins actually have to breath consciously.. "On land, human beings and other mammals breathe involuntarily: If we don't make a decision to breathe or not to breathe, our body will take in air automatically. Because of their undersea environment, whales and dolphins must be conscious breathers: They have to actively decide when to breathe. Consequently, in order to breathe, they have to be conscious. This presents a problem, since mammalian brains need to enter an unconscious state from time to time in order to function correctly (see How Sleep Works to find out why this might be).There's plenty of time for a dolphin to catch a catnap between trips to the ocean surface, of course, but this isn't a viable option. When you're a conscious breather, it's just not feasible to be completely unconscious -- what if you don't wake up in time? The solution for whales and dolphins is to let one half of the brain sleep at a time. In this way, the animal is never completely unconscious, but it still gets the rest it needs." http://animals.howstuffworks.com/mam...uestion643.htm As dolphins are just below humans in general intelligence, I don't see why they cannot commit suicide. They can make the decision to simply not breath. Animals cannot commit suicide. They have no free will. They act on Instincts. All sentient beings have free will, only the decision space is either smaller or bigger. What many humans call instincts, is simply a smaller decision space. Whether which animal have the average decision space to do what is hard to say, but I think several of the species with higher intelligence can commit suicide, but it would be much rarer than with humans, because our intellect and ego work so well together, theirs do not.

[Koalaman]

Animals cannot commit suicide. They have no free will. They act on Instincts. Too bad I don't have free will then.

[stormcrow]

Swiss Cows commit Mass Suicide, await Comet #1 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worl...tzerland.html# Quote: Dozens of alpine cows appear to be committing suicide by throwing themselves off a cliff near the small village in the Alps. In the space of just three days, 28 cows and bulls have mysteriously died after they plunged hundreds of metres to rocks below where they were killed instantly. Swiss mystery: Dozens of cows' bodies litter the valley floor after they mysteriously fell from the alpine cliff many feet above In each case, local mountain rescue services using a helicopter had to be called in to remove the bodies because of the danger to the local groundwater of pollution. A police spokesman said: 'There are no large carnivores living in the Alps anymore who would once have disposed of the bodies so they have to be moved. 'We are investigating because cows growing up in the mountains normally can estimate dangers and do not plunge down cliffs.' According to local reports, there had been violent thunderstorms in the area which may well have spooked the animals. Cows wandering at high altitude are a common sight across much of the Alps, where farmers let them loose to graze on the green plateaus above the villages. Cows graze in the picturesque mountains and valleys of Lauterbrunnen, right Often carrying large bells around their necks, most are dairy cows as the mix of vegetation and grasses at that high altitude are particularly good for milk and for making cheese. Cows do occasionally fall to their deaths in these Alpine regions although it is rare for so many to fall in one particular place. There has been speculation in the past that when this does happen it is because a tightly-grouped number have followed each other as they search for more grass. Most scientists generally believe that animals are incapable of committing suicide. Even lemmings, which by popular myth throw themselves off cliffs during mating season, do not take their own lives intentionally. Instead, evolutionary pressures cause them to feel the urge to change habitat at which point they migrate in huge droves. Sometimes, particularly in Scandinavia, they reach clifftops overlooking an ocean and, driven by the urge to cross a body of water, throw themselves off in order to swim to the other side. They often die of exhaustion or drown as a result. The myth came to the public's attention when a Disney wildlife film in the 1950s mocked up the lemming migration to make it look like the animals had committed suicide.

[hgld1234]

I think animals can commit suicide. But animals don't seem to get mental disorders as often, probably because their brains are less complex (please note, I did not say animals are less intelligent, have no free will, act upon instincts etc etc). And how many normal humans (ie ones without mental disorders) commit suicide? Probably the tinest amount. You could say that Is a prouduct of our instincts- it probably is. But remember, we are all animals, yes, with different brains, but still animals. We are not superior, just different. The illusion of being suprrior is probably only created as other animals can't speak English.

[Saturos]

My dog ran into the middle of the road and got completly decimated by a car.

[tommo]

Yeah mine too Saturos. This dog never left my side. Then all of a sudden it ran in to the middle of a busy road. One can only conclude it wanted to die.

[Xei]

Or it saw a cat..?

[tommo]

When I say it never left my side, I mean it. Well, either mine or my mums side. The only time it chased a cat was when we told it to lol Which was quite hilarious. This was a smart dog. Crazily smart. Even if it saw a cat it would not run off to chase it.