Thread: So, I think Christians are stupid.

Because in order to ensure a good afterlife, one would have to believe in all gods, which clearly violates the rules of monotheistic religions. Also because Christianity is a joke. I would probably have a better time in hell knowing that I don't have to live with the completely fucking deluded god of Christianity for the rest of eternity.

Originally Posted by Shadow27

If heaven and hell do not exist, then nothing happens and we are not harmed in any way. But if
the Bible is true, then by believing in God and Jesus we can be better off after death. So my question
to you is: Why not?

People are still making this argument?

What if God and Jesus aren't real but Allah and Mohammed are? Then you're just as fucked as if you never believed anything at all. You pretty much have to assume that the Christian god is the only potential god for that argument to make any fucking sense whatsoever and this is exceedingly obvious. Have you not gotten the memo?

Originally Posted by Shadow27

If heaven and hell do not exist, then nothing happens and we are not harmed in any way. But if
the Bible is true, then by believing in God and Jesus we can be better off after death. So my question
to you is: Why not?

If the Koran is true, then by believing in Allah and Mohammed we can be better off after death. Infidel...


Edit: Damnit PhilospherStoned... *gets his stoning rocks*

Maybe god only lets in atheists.

Originally Posted by Shadow27

If heaven and hell do not exist, then nothing happens and we are not harmed in any way. But if
the Bible is true, then by believing in God and Jesus we can be better off after death. So my question
to you is: Why not?

The simple answer to your question is that the christian version of God tells me I can't have sex before marriage or smoke weed. Those are 2 of my 3 favorite things. They also frown upn the third, the electric guitar, which is basically my penis and musical instrument form. Technically playing the guitar is a form or masturbation. The church knows this, that deep down it's a sin, they just haven't figured out why yet.

I don't believe in heaven or hell, nor do I believe that absolutely nothing happens when you die. I think it's likely that you have some kind of a dreamlike/hallucinatory experience. I am open minded to this being a somehow "trancendent" reality, something beyond this reality, a place where we can never die, but even if that is the case that does not mean that there is a God who rules over any of this.

But if this is why you believe, because it's nicer, then you are denying the truth in search of what is feels good. A fairly important part of your belief structure, your map of what's true about this world, is determined by the chance that maybe something nice will happen when you die.

This is mainly what is so baffling about religions, it is an institution supposedly based around truth that actually leads people to deny the truth based on what is good. Insanity. Or being normal in this world.

Been reading some Neitzche lately, poorly paraphrased,"If you want comfort, believe. If you want the truth, inquire."

Originally Posted by PhilosopherStoned

People are still making this argument?

Hehe "argument" is too dignifying a qualifier.

Originally Posted by PhilosopherStoned

People are still making this argument?

What if God and Jesus aren't real but Allah and Mohammed are? Then you're just as fucked as if you never believed anything at all. You pretty much have to assume that the Christian god is the only potential god for that argument to make any fucking sense whatsoever and this is exceedingly obvious. Have you not gotten the memo?

There is only one problem; If Allah and Mohamed are real, then Allah is god and Jesus is real too because the book that posits the existence of Mohamed also posits Jesus. Therefore it is safer to be islamic because you have more bases covered.

Originally Posted by BLUELINE976

What perfect timing.

I was reading the thread, and though "oh, I better post that video about Pascal's Wager". And I scroll down further and see you've already done it. Way to steal my thunder. :/

I don't think you necessarily have to believe in the Bible to be a Christian. Let me ask you this; do you believe in doing good to people or any other number of Christ's teachings? If yes then i believe that you are basically a Christian. I think that so called "Christian" churches starting with the Catholic church tainted the true nature of being Christian. Which is just being a good helpful person whether you believe Christ existed or not.

Originally Posted by Emecom

I don't think you necessarily have to believe in the Bible to be a Christian. Let me ask you this; do you believe in doing good to people or any other number of Christ's teachings? If yes then i believe that you are basically a Christian. I think that so called "Christian" churches starting with the Catholic church tainted the true nature of being Christian. Which is just being a good helpful person whether you believe Christ existed or not.

I'm pretty sure that a god of some sort needs to come into play there. Otherwise, you'll have Christian Atheists and the universe will implode.

If god and heaven are real then he pretty much made it impossible for anyone to get in, and made it almost impossible to not go to hell..

Yes that makes sense I think.

brb being born a sinner.
brb going to hell because I live in the middle of the amazon and have never heard of jesus.
brb I'm a fish so I'm going to hell
brb going to hell because I live on planet Ching flar and have never heard of jesus.
Brb god killing millions of people in the bible while Satan only killed one, and it was for a bet with god.

I don't consider "being good to people" and those other good things to be "Christ's teachings" Sure, Christ taught some of those things, but those ideas predate christ. The idea that "being a good person" is an idea that came out of <insert religion name> is flawed. "Caring" existed before we evolved the ability to invent religion.

Originally Posted by Emecom

I don't think you necessarily have to believe in the Bible to be a Christian. Let me ask you this; do you believe in doing good to people or any other number of Christ's teachings? If yes then i believe that you are basically a Christian. I think that so called "Christian" churches starting with the Catholic church tainted the true nature of being Christian. Which is just being a good helpful person whether you believe Christ existed or not.

Where do you get Christ's teachings if not from the Bible?

Originally Posted by Spartiate

Where do you get Christ's teachings if not from the Bible?

They're built into the universe, Spart. They're just something that's inherently true and obvious to good people. Christ's teachings were there before him and before he taught them.

Originally Posted by ♥Mark

They're built into the universe, Spart. They're just something that's inherently true and obvious to good people. Christ's teachings were there before him and before he taught them.

Well now hang on a minute. Go back to the built into the universe part. Universal objective morality? Really?

Oh well, a debate for another thread, I suppose.

Originally Posted by ♥Mark

They're built into the universe, Spart. They're just something that's inherently true and obvious to good people. Christ's teachings were there before him and before he taught them.

That's not what the Koran says.

Originally Posted by ♥Mark

They're built into the universe, Spart. They're just something that's inherently true and obvious to good people. Christ's teachings were there before him and before he taught them.

Christ existed before the Universe came into existence. The Universe doesn't come before Christ. "In the beginning the word was a God". And what Christ taught was not a derivative of Christ they were a derivative of the Father.

Originally Posted by Ne-yo

Christ existed before the Universe came into existence. The Universe doesn't come before Christ. "In the beginning the word was a God". And what Christ taught was not a derivative of Christ they were a derivative of the Father.

Where did christ/god come from?

Originally Posted by Ne-yo

Christ existed before the Universe came into existence. The Universe doesn't come before Christ. "In the beginning the word was a God".

Ah, yes, that classic of giving evidence that God exists by using the Bible. God wrote/dictated/ghostwrote the Bible, so the Bible must be true. And what does the Bible prove? That God exists. See an error in logic here?

Originally Posted by Ne-yo

And what Christ taught was not a derivative of Christ they were a derivative of the Father.

Christ taught a lot of things that were different from what God apparently wanted in the Old Testament. Do you know of the dietary laws of the dietary laws that God demanded in the Old Testament? Mark 7:14-15, "Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, 'Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. Nothing outside a person can defile them by going into them. Rather, it is what comes out of a person that defiles them.'" How about this gem, Deuteronomy 19:20-21, "Then the rest of the people will hear about it and be afraid to do such an evil thing. You must show no pity for the guilty! Your rule should be life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot." But wait, Matthew 5:38-39, "You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also." So is God the Father just changing his mind on these issues? How can an omniscient being change his mind? Is Christ different from Yahweh?

Originally Posted by kookyinc

Ah, yes, that classic of giving evidence that God exists by using the Bible. God wrote/dictated/ghostwrote the Bible, so the Bible must be true.

Ummmm no, not sure how you came to that conclusion from that one statement I've posted, but to clarify, it had absolutely nothing to do with an attempt to prove GOD's existence through scripture. You missed the point. :p

Originally Posted by kookyinc

And what does the Bible prove? That God exists. See an error in logic here?

Your "error in logic" example is weak at best. I'll entertain an example for you. The link you've provided doesn't cite any sources or any outside references so it must be true huh? Can you see the Irony in your flawed example here?

Originally Posted by kookyinc

Christ taught a lot of things that were different from what God apparently wanted in the Old Testament.

This is false.

Originally Posted by kookyinc

Do you know of the dietary laws of the dietary laws that God demanded in the Old Testament? Mark 7:14-15, "Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, 'Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. Nothing outside a person can defile them by going into them. Rather, it is what comes out of a person that defiles them.'

The real question is, do you know the dietary laws and it's significance in the OT? Based off what you've just asserted here it doesn't appear that you have even the basic understanding of it.

FACT: The dietary laws were given to the nation of Israel and were not given at the same time as the Ten Commandments. They were given one full year later.

See: The Dietary Laws In Leviticus

Originally Posted by kookyinc

How about this gem, Deuteronomy 19:20-21, "Then the rest of the people will hear about it and be afraid to do such an evil thing. You must show no pity for the guilty! Your rule should be life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot."

Dude are you kidding me??

Here, I'll break this down for you. The account of Deuteronomy 19:20-21 is directed to the Judges, who should not spare such an one through favour or affection, but pronounce a righteous sentence on him, and see it executed, in proportion to the crime, and that according to the law of retaliation:

but life shall go for life; in such a case where the life of a person must have gone, if the falsehood of the testimony had not been discovered, the false witness must suffer death; in other cases, where a member would have been lost, or the price of it paid for, the same penalty was to be inflicted.

eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot; that is, the price of an eye an eye, tooth for tooth; etc... See Exodus 21:23-25

Originally Posted by kookyinc

But wait, Matthew 5:38-39, "You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also."

You really have a serious misunderstanding of Scripture. Jesus was not changing the meaning of "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" but restoring it to the original context. Jesus starts his statement with "you have heard it said" which means that he was clarifying a misconception, as opposed to "it is written" which would be a reference to scripture. The common misconception seems to be that people were using Exodus 21:23-25 (the guidelines for a magistrate to punish convicted offenders) as a justification for personal vengeance. In this context, the command to "turn the other cheek" would not be a command to allow someone to beat or rob a person, but a command not to take vengeance. It's really as simple as that.

Originally Posted by kookyinc

So is God the Father just changing his mind on these issues?

It's pretty obvious that this is clearly not a scenario of the changing of ones mind, but extremely apparent of your ignorance regarding biblical scripture.

Originally Posted by kookyinc

How can an omniscient being change his mind?

God does EVERYTHING that He "wills" to do. If you can understand that, then you've already gotten your answer.

Originally Posted by kookyinc

Is Christ different from Yahweh?

Jehovah and Christ are two distinct entities. Jesus Christ was created whereas Jehovah was not created.

Originally Posted by Ne-yo

Ummmm no, not sure how you came to that conclusion from that one statement I've posted, but to clarify, it had absolutely nothing to do with an attempt to prove GOD's existence through scripture. You missed the point. :p

Pretend the bible isn't the word of god for a minute. Pretend that it was all just people lying out their ass a couple thousand years ago. Pretend like there was no Jesus and no miracles and no actual teachings of Christ. Then what happens?

Your "error in logic" example is weak at best. I'll entertain an example for you. The link you've provided doesn't cite any sources or any outside references so it must be true huh? Can you see the Irony in your flawed example here?

Oh wow, did you actually just deny that circular reasoning exists? Oh dear god. I pity you immensely.

Shit, I'm on my period. Is that a sin? Am I going to hell?

Pretty sure I saw a couple of posts around here about what an abomination it is. Fuck. I really am screwed.

And, oh shit. I mean, fudgecakes, because there are certain sounds I cannot make without being cast into the firey depths of hell. Oh god, I just remembered that earlier I jealous and pride through-out the day, does that mean I'm gonna spend eternity burning? I mean c'mon, give me a break!

Shit, I his name in vain.

I just can't win here!

One question are you seriously concerned about going to some sort of hell when you die?

No.