Thread: To all the christians :D

What.

I was sort of looking for answers from Zhaylin and not from a messianic circle squarer.

Like I've said in the past, the Bible is my "religion". It's words are sacred to me. If it tells me God said to do this or that, then I take it as truth.

Joshua 1:7-9
"“Only be courageous and very strong to take care to do according to all the law that Moses my servant commanded you. Do not turn aside from it to the right or to the left, in order that you may act wisely everywhere you go. 8*This book of the law [what made up the "Bible" of that age] should not depart from your mouth, and you must in an undertone read in it day and night, in order that you may take care to do according to all that is written in it; for then you will make your way successful and then you will act wisely. 9*Have I not commanded you? Be courageous and strong. Do not suffer shock or be terrified, for Jehovah your God is with you wherever you go.”"
(Bold is mine)

It may seem like circular reasoning to you, but it makes sense to me.

If I wrote a book, and in it wrote that it was the word of god, would you worship the book?

If the answer is yes, then I'll get writing... but if the answer is no, how is that any different from the bible?

No.
The Bible is different because it has a history of accuracy.
From the book "All Scripture is Inspired of God and Beneficial":

"...(4)*Practicality. If there were no other proofs of authenticity available, the Bible’s righteous principles and moral standards would set it apart as a product of the divine mind. Additionally, its practicality extends to every phase of daily living. No other book gives us a rational view of the origin of all things, including mankind, and of the Creator’s purpose toward the earth and man. (Gen., chap.*1; Isa. 45:18) The Bible tells us why man dies and why wickedness exists. (Gen., chap.*3; Rom. 5:12; Job, chaps.*1,*2; Ex. 9:16) It sets out the highest standard of justice. (Ex. 23:1, 2, 6,*7; Deut. 19:15-21) It gives right counsel on business dealings (Lev. 19:35,*36; Prov. 20:10; 22:22,*23; Matt. 7:12); clean moral conduct (Lev. 20:10-16; Gal. 5:19-23; Heb. 13:4); relationships with others (Lev. 19:18; Prov. 12:15; 15:1; 27:1, 2, 5,*6; 29:11; Matt. 7:12; 1*Tim. 5:1,*2); marriage (Gen. 2:22-24; Matt. 19:4, 5,*9; 1*Cor. 7:2, 9, 10,*39); family relationships and duties of husband, wife, and children (Deut. 6:4-9; Prov. 13:24; Eph. 5:21-33; 6:1-4; Col. 3:18-21; 1*Pet. 3:1-6); proper attitude toward rulers (Rom. 13:1-10; Titus 3:1; 1*Tim. 2:1,*2; 1*Pet. 2:13,*14); honest work as well as master-slave and employer-employee relationships (Eph. 4:28; Col. 3:22-24; 4:1; 1*Pet. 2:18-21); proper associations (Prov. 1:10-16; 5:3-11; 1*Cor. 15:33; 2*Tim. 2:22; Heb. 10:24,*25); settling disputes (Matt. 18:15-17; Eph. 4:26); and many other things that vitally affect our everyday lives.


15 The Bible also provides valuable pointers regarding physical and mental health. (Prov. 15:17; 17:22) In recent years, medical research has demonstrated that a person’s physical health is indeed affected by his mental attitude. For example, studies have shown that persons who are prone to express anger often have the highest levels of blood pressure. Some reported that anger produced cardiac sensations, headaches, nosebleeds, dizziness, or inability to vocalize. However, the Bible long ago explained: “A calm heart is the life of the fleshly organism.”—Prov. 14:30; compare Matthew 5:9.
16 (5)*Scientific Accuracy. Though the Bible is not a treatise on science, where it touches on scientific matters, it is found to be accurate and in harmony with true scientific discovery and knowledge. Its record of the order of creation, including animal life (Gen., chap.*1); the earth’s being round, or spherical (Isa. 40:22); and the earth’s hanging in space on “nothing” antedate scientific discoveries of these truths. (Job 26:7) Modern physiology has demonstrated the truth of the Scriptural statement that “not all flesh is the same flesh,” the cellular structure of the flesh of one kind being different from that of another, man having his own unique “flesh.” (1*Cor. 15:39) In the field of zoology, Leviticus 11:6 classes the hare with the cud-chewing animals. This was once scoffed at, but science now finds that the rabbit reingests its food.
17 The statement that the ‘life of the flesh is in the blood’ has in modern times come to be recognized as a basic truth of medical science. (Lev. 17:11-14) The Mosaic Law indicated which animals, birds, and fish were “clean” for human consumption, and it excluded risky foods. (Lev., chap.*11) The Law required that at a military encampment, human excrement be covered over, thus providing considerable protection from fly-borne infectious diseases, such as dysentery and typhoid fever. (Deut. 23:9-14) Even today, in some lands severe health problems exist because of improper disposal of human wastes. People in such lands would be much healthier if they followed the Bible’s counsel on hygiene.
18 The Bible recommends a little wine for “the sake of your stomach” and for “sickness.” (1*Tim. 5:23) Dr.*Salvatore P. Lucia, professor of medicine at the University of California School of Medicine, writes: “Wine is the most ancient dietary beverage and the most important medicinal agent in continuous use throughout the history of mankind.”

"...(7)*Candor of Bible Writers. Throughout the Bible, the unhesitating candor of its writers is strong proof of its reliability. Moses, for example, straightforwardly tells of his own sin and God’s judgment that he and his brother, Aaron, should not enter the Promised Land. (Num. 20:7-13; Deut. 3:23-27) The sins of David on two occasions as well as the apostasy of his son Solomon are openly exposed. (2*Sam., chaps.*11, 12,*24; 1*Ki. 11:1-13) Jonah writes about his own disobedience and its result. The entire nation of Israel was condemned by nearly all the writers of the Hebrew Scriptures, all of whom were Jews, for its disobedience to God, in the very record the Jews cherished and accepted as the pronouncements of God and the true history of their nation. The Christian writers were no less candid. All four of the Gospel writers revealed Peter’s denial of Christ. And Paul called attention to Peter’s serious error on a matter of faith in making a separation between Jews and Gentiles in the Christian congregation at Antioch. It builds confidence in the Bible as truth when we realize that its writers spared no one, not even themselves, in the interests of making a faithful record.—Matt. 26:69-75; Mark 14:66-72; Luke 22:54-62; John 18:15-27; Gal. 2:11-14; John 17:17.

22 (8)*Harmony of Writers. The Bible was written over a period of more than 1,600 years by about 40 writers, with no disharmony. It has been widely distributed in tremendous numbers despite the fiercest opposition and the most energetic efforts to destroy it. These facts help to prove that it is what it claims to be, the Word of the almighty God, and that it is indeed “beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness.”—2*Tim. 3:16.



23 Its inspiration is shown by the thorough consistency with which it emphasizes the theme of sanctification of Jehovah’s name by his Kingdom under Christ. A few of the outstanding instances are:
Gen. 3:15 Promise of the Seed that will
destroy the Serpent
Gen. 22:15-18 All nations will bless themselves
by means of Abraham’s seed
Ex. 3:15; 6:3 God emphasizes his memorial name,
Jehovah
Ex. 9:16; Rom. 9:17 God states purpose to have his
name declared
Ex. 18:11; Jehovah greater than all other
Isa. 36:18-20;37:20, 36-38; gods
Jer. 10:10,*11
Ex. 20:3-7 God respects name, demands
exclusive devotion
Job, chaps.*1, 2 Jehovah’s rightful sovereignty
and man’s attitude and integrity
toward it
Job 32:2; 35:2; 36:24; 40:8 God’s vindication brought to the
fore
Isa. 9:7 God zealously supports
everlasting Kingdom of his Son
Dan. 2:44; 4:17,*34; The importance of God’s Kingdom
7:13, 14 by the “son of man”
Ezek. 6:10; 38:23 People “will have to know that I
am Jehovah.” This statement
appears more than 60 times in the
prophecy of Ezekiel
Mal. 1:11 God’s name to be great among the
nations
Matt. 6:9, 10, 33 Sanctification of God’s name by
his Kingdom is of primary importance
John 17:6, 26 Jesus declared God’s name
Acts 2:21; Rom. 10:13 Jehovah’s name to be called on
for salvation
Rom. 3:4 God to be proved true, though
every man a liar
1*Cor. 15:24-28 Kingdom to be handed back to God;
God to be all things to everyone
Heb. 13:15 Christians must make public
declaration to Jehovah’s name
Rev. 15:4 Jehovah’s name to be glorified by
all nations
Rev. 19:6 Jehovah’s name praised after
devastation of Babylon the
Great."


Sorry about the wall of text, but you asked These are reasons why I believe in and trust the Bible as being the inspired word of God.

Originally Posted by Zhaylin

No.
The Bible is different because it has a history of accuracy.

But all that shows is that parts of the history happen to be accurate. That certainly doesn't show divine intervention.

Is showing stripes to pregnant cattle a good way to make them have striped calves?

Mario, There's more to it than the history. But the history is accurate, so why expect lies from something I've always found truthful?

Blueline, Nope.
That would be called a miracle

Oh...well someone tell that to Jacob.

Originally Posted by Zhaylin

Mario, There's more to it than the history. But the history is accurate, so why expect lies from something I've always found truthful?

In that case, what separates he bible from other old religious texts like the koran or the vedas?

Originally Posted by Zhaylin

Mario, There's more to it than the history. But the history is accurate, so why expect lies from something I've always found truthful?

Because history can be observed. We can cross-reference it and show that yeah, some bits of the bible actually happened. There's no way to affirm any of the mystic mumbo-jumbo added later on, though. If I wrote a book claiming unicorns were real cuz they visited me and told me so, AND about the completely factual history of the French Revolution, there is no reason to assume the entire book is true just because part of it can be confirmed.

If I take a history book, and prepend the story of humpty dumpty to the beginning, does that make Genesis... er I mean.. Humpty dumpty... true?

<that is all>

I was kind of hoping for more...

Nah.
Can't think of anything constructive to add.

i have talked to god many times. seriously. when i get deep into my meditation sessions ill start praying and i feel gods presence right in front of me and ill ask questions and receive direct answers, a voice as clear as day, and its not just my imagination, like its not just my own thoughts giving me answers its an outside source.

Originally Posted by Zhaylin

Nah.
Can't think of anything constructive to add.

When I see that, I see "I can't think of a way to address the points that have been made so I'm just going to stick my head in the Bible sand and pretend it never happened."

Originally Posted by JamesLD

i have talked to god many times. seriously. when i get deep into my meditation sessions ill start praying and i feel gods presence right in front of me and ill ask questions and receive direct answers, a voice as clear as day, and its not just my imagination, like its not just my own thoughts giving me answers its an outside source.

How do you know that it's an outside source. And how do you know that this outside source is the creator of the universe?

Originally Posted by PhilosopherStoned

How do you know that it's an outside source. And how do you know that this outside source is the creator of the universe?

hmm i could just be insane who knows. but when im pray to what i believe to be God the creator of the universe im overwhelmed with the most incredible feeling of joy, love and peace, which is what i believe to be the spirit of god. and the voice i hear is the most powerful yet gentle voice ive ever heard. but i guess that might not be evidence enough for you but its evidence enough for me.

Why did an omnipotent (I'm assuming, correct me if I'm wrong) being of joy, love and peace create a universe with so much suffering in it?

EDIT:

Also, what's so special about you that god wants to talk directly to you but not, say, Zhaylin, who is a devout believer?

Originally Posted by PhilosopherStoned

Why did an omnipotent (I'm assuming, correct me if I'm wrong) being of joy, love and peace create a universe with so much suffering in it?

EDIT:

Also, what's so special about you that god wants to talk directly to you but not, say, Zhaylin, who is a devout believer?

Isaiah 45:7 (King James Version)

7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

And if you want to know why anyone does anything, the first person you ask is them.

Numbers 12:6-8 (King James Version)

6 And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream.

Unless of course, all you are interested in is not really knowing but simple name calling--vainly trying to bring the world down to your size. Can anyone make you talk to them? Is that a rational statement at all?

Originally Posted by JamesLD

i have talked to god many times. seriously. when i get deep into my meditation sessions ill start praying and i feel gods presence right in front of me and ill ask questions and receive direct answers, a voice as clear as day, and its not just my imagination, like its not just my own thoughts giving me answers its an outside source.

Occams Razor anyone?

Ask yourself: What is more likely? The unproven, irrational idea that it is a god talking to you, or the proven, common thing like a vivid imagination and a subconciousness, or in worst case; Skitzoprenia? Can you see past your own bias?

Originally Posted by JamesLD

hmm I could just be insane who knows. but when im pray to what i believe to be God the creator of the universe im overwhelmed with the most incredible feeling of joy, love and peace, which is what i believe to be the spirit of god. and the voice i hear is the most powerful yet gentle voice ive ever heard. but i guess that might not be evidence enough for you but its evidence enough for me.

Again; Can you see past your own bias? It could just be placebo fucking with your brain...

A thing I have come to realize, is that I can't really trust myself in all situations. Are you sure you can?

EDIT: That came out somewhat wrong... What I meant is that I can't trust myself to be unbiased.

Why is it that if people claim to be a prophet that communicates directly with god today, they'll be deemed crazy and ignored... but the prophets from 2000 years ago are well respected?

Has god not chosen to talk to anyone in a few millennia?

Originally Posted by Philosopher8659

Unless of course, all you are interested in is not really knowing but simple name calling--vainly trying to bring the world down to your size. Can anyone make you talk to them? Is that a rational statement at all?

Thank you Philospher3242342343 but again, I'm interested in answers from people that I asked or from other members of the community that are at lease partially sane and not from a messianic circle squarer.

Originally Posted by PhilosopherStoned

So help me understand something.

Reading the bible is the only way that god has to communicate with us but god is the one that told us to read the bible in the first place?

How does that work exactly?

Religion as an institution (church) is a social structure created by mankind, and it´s far far away from whatever might be the "truth". No, i don´t know the "truth", nor have the slightest glimpse of it. But like everything that has the mind or the influence of Man, the original message becomes distorted over time, and turns into something completely different from the original source. I don´t know what´s the "true god" message or plan, but i know what´s not.

The true God message or plan for us is NOT:

- Lack of knowledge and the breed of stupidity (promoted by Inquisition);
- Propagation of AIDS ( that was promoted until a few months ago, by the message of not wearing a condom);
- Political sidetaking (like the Church did when it walked hand-to-hand with the Nazi´s in Second World War);
- Absence of sexual desires/fullfillement through the message that sex is only for procriation, and that homossexuality is an aberration - please remember the inumerous cases of a TRUE abnormal and discusting behaviour, like the inumerous cases of pedophile priests that the Church "protected" by not taking any kind of action against them besides moving them to another church or suspending them from their activities)
- Exploding bombs in the name of God (islamic extremism)
- The old crusades in Jerusalem (the pope asked for forgiveness regarding the Holocaust, but forgot to apologize for the Crusades and for the Inquisition)
- The act of Confession, impliyng that a person needs a mediator to speak with God, and that a human (priest) can forgive sins, a priest is just another human, he doesn´t have the authority to forgive anything - that authority was given by human tradition not by a Messiah or God.

And finally, all the rituals that every single religion has...they were all made up to, imprint continuously, propaganda to quiet every person who pratice their rituals. Think...does a God that created the Universe (Time, Galaxies, Stars, Gravity, Magnetism, Light, Parallel Universes, Black Holes, etc...) would demand that you go to church every Sunday, deprive yourself from sexuality, absent yourself from eating meat in certain dates, kill other living beings (that are his creations too), or command you to read a book - impliyng that his works and plans and commands are written in the book, that would give commands that Women should come last regarding Men instead of being equals?

Don´t think so.

In my opinion God plans are all around you...when a child is born, when an old person dies, when a young person dies, when people defy one another regarding scientifical knowledge and philosophycal knowledge, when a person chooses anything based on free tought and will, when you drop something and watch gravity in action, when you see supernovas or explore the vast regions of your mind...

The rest is human ideology, mass control and noise.

But that is just me (who believes in God and afterlife, not in books and rules and institutions made by man)