Thread: A (moral) question for Atheists

Originally Posted by Supernova

This is pretty sad.

What's sad is that you can't answer the question. The correct answer to my question would be "nothing."

If I were an atheist, there would be nothing to stop me from having a little fun. If I know that I won't be punished, why not abuse him?

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Originally Posted by Fechtel

What's sad is that you can't answer the question. The correct answer to my question would be "nothing."

If I were an atheist, there would be nothing to stop me from having a little fun. If I know that I won't be punished, why not abuse him?

Punch punch...
Kick kick...
Cut cut...

My bad for leaving that edit open so long, please reread that though. Apparently you DON'T believe in simple empathy, which is disappointing.

Originally Posted by Supernova

My bad for leaving that edit open so long, please reread that though. Apparently you DON'T believe in simple empathy, which is disappointing.

I have re-read it, but it isn't good enough. Empathy alone isn't a strong emotion in many cases, and it isn't found in alot of people, at least not much of it!

Empathy can also diminish if you are faced with a scenario such as the one I described. When you choose between pleasure and empathy, most people will choose pleasure.

The point of the thread is, where do atheists get their morals from?

Originally Posted by Fechtel

I have re-read it, but it isn't good enough. Empathy alone isn't a strong emotion in many cases, and it isn't found in alot of people, at least not much of it!

Empathy can also diminish if you are faced with a scenario such as the one I described. When you choose between pleasure and empathy, most people will choose pleasure.

The point of the thread is, where do atheists get their morals from?

Yeah, pleasure....problem with that is, as several people have pointed out to you already, the only people who derive pleasure from abusing others are violent sociopaths.

Originally Posted by Fechtel

I have re-read it, but it isn't good enough. Empathy alone isn't a strong emotion in many cases, and it isn't found in alot of people, at least not much of it!

Empathy can also diminish if you are faced with a scenario such as the one I described. When you choose between pleasure and empathy, most people will choose pleasure.

The point of the thread is, where do atheists get their morals from?

Why would "most people" harm an innocent person tied up.... rather than helping them? You think it's because of their belief in god??? Only sick people would harm the person... and belief in god is irrelevant.

You think morals come from religion.... but they come from tradition and feelings. The morals of certain religions stem from peoples' feelings... once again... belief in god is irrelevant.

everyone gets their morals the same way... different experiences... but same basic way....

Originally Posted by Michael

Why would "most people" harm an innocent person tied up.... rather than helping them? You think it's because of their belief in god??? Only sick people would harm the person... and belief in god is irrelevant.

You think morals come from religion.... but they come from tradition and feelings. The morals of certain religions stem from peoples' feelings... once again... belief in god is irrelevant.

Oh, really? No way, Jose. Tell me why it would be wrong to kill this man.

Where/what is your guidance? Empathy isn't good enough.

Originally Posted by Fechtel

Oh, really? No way, Jose. Tell me why it would be wrong to kill this man.

Where/what is your guidance? Empathy isn't good enough.

I tried. You are stubborn... not willing to learn... and dumb.

Originally Posted by Fechtel

Empathy isn't good enough.

And who the fuck are you to decide that? And weather or not it's good enough for YOU is irrelevant.

And in the way you mean it here, saying that is like asking someone for their opinion and then saying "no. you're wrong. Because I said so".

Originally Posted by Fechtel

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... And how long have you been harboring these sick fantasies... ?

Originally Posted by Fechtel

Empathy can also diminish if you are faced with a scenario such as the one I described. When you choose between pleasure and empathy, most people will choose pleasure.

Wait - so, you think it would be pleasurable to abuse a poor tied-up man, and the only reason you wouldn't is because you fear going to hell?

Originally Posted by Darkmatters

Wait - so, you think it would be pleasurable to abuse a poor tied-up man, and the only reason you wouldn't is because you fear going to hell?

I am saying that there is no way I would do it.

Originally Posted by Fechtel

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Oh god this made me laugh so hard...and then Darkmatters' response...

I mean, you suggest that there's nothing stopping us from doing this, but I can't even see what the motive would be to abuse the man in the first place. Surely without this great moral guidance we apparently lack we'd just ignore him? Do you have some crazy notion that physically abusing people actually gives pleasure?

Originally Posted by Fechtel

If I were an atheist, there would be nothing to stop me from having a little fun. If I know that I won't be punished, why not abuse him?

I'm sure you're being facetious, but it's interesting that you would label torturing a helpless man as "fun." I'm not psychoanalyzing you, as in I don't think you're implying that deep down you think such an activity would be fun. Rather you imply that atheists are so devoid of any moral compass that they would consider it "fun."

Which is, of course, fucking ridiculous.

Originally Posted by BLUELINE976

I'm sure you're being facetious, but it's interesting that you would label torturing a helpless man as "fun." I'm not psychoanalyzing you, as in I don't think you're implying that deep down you think such an activity would be fun. Rather you imply that atheists are so devoid of any moral compass that they would consider it "fun."

Which is, of course, fucking ridiculous.

I never implied that ONLY atheists have these kinds of desires. I think it is deep inside in all of us, no matter what religion! Sometimes we may think we're unable to commit certain acts, but when given the opportunity, knowing there are absolutely no consequences... our deepest desires float right to the top.

I have a big respect for atheists who do not mock God, or insult/offend Christians. Not sure if I'm allowed to post links, but freeratio.org is a perfect example of intelligent discussion between atheists and theists.

No insults, no mocking, but respectful and rational discussion. Unfortunately I can't say the same for certain atheists on this forum who make threads with the sole purpose to offend Christians (aka Jesus of Suburbia).

In any case, I never meant to say that atheists are the only ones who might have violent desires. I hope I made that clear now.

Originally Posted by Fechtel

I never implied that ONLY atheists have these kinds of desires. I think it is deep inside in all of us, no matter what religion! Sometimes we may think we're unable to commit certain acts, but when given the opportunity, knowing there are absolutely no consequences... our deepest desires float right to the top.

If that's honestly part of your deepest desires then I think that not only do you need severe help, but you also need to be removed from society for our protection and benefit.

Originally Posted by Photolysis

If that's honestly part of your deepest desires then I think that not only do you need severe help, but you also need to be removed from society for our protection and benefit.

I don't need help, but it's funny that you say this. I have had many Muslims tell me that I need help, yet I'm not the one who supports flying planes into buildings.

I believe in punishment. Pure and simple. My desires are NOT towards innocent people, but only those who are evil and/or demon-posessed.

Saddam Hussein was known for presiding over torture and execution. He caused people so much pain and suffering, yet he left this world without any pain and suffering. The only pain he felt was perhaps 3 - 5 seconds during his execution by hanging.

If he had been tortured, then this would be the justice he deserves. Drag it out as long as possible!

Originally Posted by Fechtel

I don't need help, but it's funny that you say this. I have had many Muslims tell me that I need help, yet I'm not the one who supports flying planes into buildings.

This assumes that all Muslims support terrorism. I think you'll find the opposite is true. Fallacy of composition says hello.

Originally Posted by Fechtel

I never implied that ONLY atheists have these kinds of desires. I think it is deep inside in all of us, no matter what religion! Sometimes we may think we're unable to commit certain acts, but when given the opportunity, knowing there are absolutely no consequences... our deepest desires float right to the top.

This is quite disrespectfull and offending to all people. Religion has nothing to do with this. Are you seriously implying, that if I was not scared of consequences, I would have no problem with torturing another human being and on top of that, I would be enjoying it? Have you ever heard of compassion and empathy? I can't even get mad at my cat without feeling like crap afterwords.

My deepest desires are the oposite of yours. I want love and peace, hehe. Have no desire to harm anyone. And it's not becaues I fear my God or civil authorities. My God doesn't make me fear him.

You call yourself a christian, yet given an opportunity, you would kill and have fun with it. I think people like that are giving christians a bad name, hiding behind "I'm a christian ergo I'm better than you". Real christian wouldn't even consider torturing a helpless man, just because that's a wrong thing to do.

Originally Posted by Fechtel

I never implied that ONLY atheists have these kinds of desires. I think it is deep inside in all of us, no matter what religion! Sometimes we may think we're unable to commit certain acts, but when given the opportunity, knowing there are absolutely no consequences... our deepest desires float right to the top.

Not all atheists realize this, but many if not most, realize that we live in a causal universe. Every single action has a consequence. In your scenario there is no authority, but there are still consequences, like the ones I listed above. Personally, I think if we remove authority, people will be forced to consider the consequences of their actions which will cause people to become more moral, not less. Authority just tells you a very limited consequence and allows you to avoid thinking about the actual consequences.

Originally Posted by Fechtel

What's sad is that you can't answer the question. The correct answer to my question would be "nothing."

If I were an atheist, there would be nothing to stop me from having a little fun. If I know that I won't be punished, why not abuse him?

Punch punch...
Kick kick...
Cut cut...

Wow. You're going to hell.

Originally Posted by Fechtel

What's sad is that you can't answer the question. The correct answer to my question would be "nothing."

If I were an atheist, there would be nothing to stop me from having a little fun. If I know that I won't be punished, why not abuse him?

Punch punch...
Kick kick...
Cut cut...

If the only reason you wouldn't abuse someone is because you would get punished, then you have something wrong with you.

Originally Posted by Barry

If the only reason you wouldn't abuse someone is because you would get punished, then you have something wrong with you.

It should be noted Dahmer used himself as an example for the importance of organized religion and external accountability.

Of course most of us are not Dahmer.

This feels appropriate to include though

Originally Posted by Original Poster