Thread: A (moral) question for Atheists

This is your opinion and nothing more.

I call it justice.

That is pretty messed up. You are clearly at least partly psychopathic, though there are different kinds of it. People who feel no empathy for everyone and people who do have empathy but only for close friends and family. The second can function as long as they understand there are laws and stuff, and I guess that is why you need religion in order to hold you back.

Most people probably do not want to see horrible things done to anyone, regardless of who they are. Only really sick people would laugh at someone being tortured, even if they were Hitler.

Originally Posted by Fechtel

I never implied that ONLY atheists have these kinds of desires. I think it is deep inside in all of us, no matter what religion! Sometimes we may think we're unable to commit certain acts, but when given the opportunity, knowing there are absolutely no consequences... our deepest desires float right to the top.

This is quite disrespectfull and offending to all people. Religion has nothing to do with this. Are you seriously implying, that if I was not scared of consequences, I would have no problem with torturing another human being and on top of that, I would be enjoying it? Have you ever heard of compassion and empathy? I can't even get mad at my cat without feeling like crap afterwords.

My deepest desires are the oposite of yours. I want love and peace, hehe. Have no desire to harm anyone. And it's not becaues I fear my God or civil authorities. My God doesn't make me fear him.

You call yourself a christian, yet given an opportunity, you would kill and have fun with it. I think people like that are giving christians a bad name, hiding behind "I'm a christian ergo I'm better than you". Real christian wouldn't even consider torturing a helpless man, just because that's a wrong thing to do.

Originally Posted by Fechtel

This is your opinion and nothing more.

I call it justice.

Until you actually witness it.

Besides, I highly doubt Jesus would have shared that viewpoint.

Originally Posted by Supernova

Until you actually witness it.

What do you mean?

Originally Posted by Fechtel

What do you mean?

If you can laugh at any other person getting tortured, regardless of who it is, you are sick. It's that simple, really.

Eye-for-an-eye 'justice' is the reason this world sucks. It serves no purpose except pleasing the needs of the mentally disturbed.

Originally Posted by Fechtel

This is your opinion and nothing more.

I call it justice.

Since when has it not been God's place to judge and punish, and the humans' to pray for God to have mercy on those souls undoubtedly destined for hell? The truth is, you are not a good person without religion, and neither are you a good person with it. God gave you His commandments, and made it clear he isn't a fan of vigilante-ism. Not only are you wrong in assuming that everyone is without a conscience, but you are very arrogant for thinking that you could possibly know God's will and that it is within your right to act how you see fit based on your (likely wrong) assumptions.

Personally I am an atheist, and to a degree sociopathic. Even though it probably would not bother me emotionally to abuse the man in some sadistic way, I consider violence to be, in most cases, barbaric and animalistic simply because it requires no higher thought and is often myopic. I would first analyze the situation, this guy could be of use to me in one way or another. Why kill him or let him die if I could manipulate him and in the end be better off for it? Honestly I'm usually a nice guy to most people I meet for this very reason. It's easier to get what I want, I am not totally lonely, and it allows me to function relatively well in society. The way I see it, unless the man is handicapped in some way, it makes much more sense to give myself options than to simply torture or kill him.

Just curious, Fechtel, do you believe you will be provided with helpless wicked people to torture in heaven? Because it really sounds like you're angling for a job in another department.

Originally Posted by snoop

Since when has it not been God's place to judge and punish, and the humans' to pray for God to have mercy on those souls undoubtedly destined for hell? The truth is, you are not a good person without religion, and neither are you a good person with it. God gave you His commandments, and made it clear he isn't a fan of vigilante-ism. Not only are you wrong in assuming that everyone is without a conscience, but you are very arrogant for thinking that you could possibly know God's will and that it is within your right to act how you see fit based on your (likely wrong) assumptions.

Personally I am an atheist, and to a degree sociopathic. Even though it probably would not bother me emotionally to abuse the man in some sadistic way, I consider violence to be, in most cases, barbaric and animalistic simply because it requires no higher thought and is often myopic. I would first analyze the situation, this guy could be of use to me in one way or another. Why kill him or let him die if I could manipulate him and in the end be better off for it? Honestly I'm usually a nice guy to most people I meet for this very reason. It's easier to get what I want, I am not totally lonely, and it allows me to function relatively well in society. The way I see it, unless the man is handicapped in some way, it makes much more sense to give myself options than to simply torture or kill him.

O.k., that means you would abuse him if he was of no use to you. Did I get that right?

Interesting.

Originally Posted by Taosaur

Just curious, Fechtel, do you believe you will be provided with helpless wicked people to torture in heaven? Because it really sounds like you're angling for a job in another department.

I don't know if that will happen in heaven, but I certainly wouldn't mind.

Originally Posted by Fechtel

I don't know if that will happen in heaven, but I certainly wouldn't mind.

Just so we're clear that your idea of Heaven is being a notch up the pecking order in Hell, and you feel qualified to ask atheists about their morality.

Originally Posted by Fechtel

O.k., that means you would abuse him if he was of no use to you. Did I get that right?

Interesting.

Not necessarily, it's more like I would not have a problem with doing it. His life holds no meaning to me, I would not cry, feel disgust, or hate myself if I did. However, I don't really get pleasure from committing sadistic acts. Abusing him would be an expenditure of effort and energy with no real payoff. Every once in a while I find myself feeling a bit manic and I find it very entertaining to hear screams of terror knowing I am the cause (for instance, while playing a video game), and I find myself laughing a lot. I'm not sure why the entertainment comes and goes, but a majority of time I don't find something like that fun.

Originally Posted by snoop

Not necessarily, it's more like I would not have a problem with doing it. His life holds no meaning to me, I would not cry, feel disgust, or hate myself if I did. However, I don't really get pleasure from committing sadistic acts. Abusing him would be an expenditure of effort and energy with no real payoff. Every once in a while I find myself feeling a bit manic and I find it very entertaining to hear screams of terror knowing I am the cause (for instance, while playing a video game), and I find myself laughing a lot. I'm not sure why the entertainment comes and goes, but a majority of time I don't find something like that fun.

And people say I have a problem.

Originally Posted by Fechtel

And people say I have a problem.

Well the difference is I admit it, in fact I don't even feel the slightest bit of shame for being the way I am. People can judge me poorly if they choose to, what the fuck do I care, lol. I don't care about others' feelings or lives (unless it is pragmatic to do so), how could I even begin to care about someone's thoughts towards me?

The reason I pick the word sociopath over psychopath when it comes to my case is because when I was younger I actually used to feel empathy and care about people. Somewhere down the line, somehow my emotions kind of just got sucked out of me, and now I just don't have a conscience. I don't think I'd even care (emotionally) if my family all died tomorrow. For whatever reason, I just cannot feel an emotional connection with people.

Originally Posted by Fechtel

And people say I have a problem.

You do have a problem. I think you made this thread to ask others to validate your sick thoughts of torturing and enjoying it, so you don't feel so bad about having them. And when someone says he has similar thoughts, you saying he has a problem. But you having even worse thoughts is OK?

Originally Posted by gab

You do have a problem. I think you made this thread to ask others to validate your sick thoughts of torturing and enjoying it, so you don't feel so bad about having them. And when someone says he has similar thought, you saying he has a problem. But you having even worth thought is OK?

Worth thought was supposed to mean worse thoughts, right?

In any case, I don't think I have a problem. I just don't like to see injustice in the world, and hate seeing evil people committing acts of cruelty and injustice.

Punish them as they have lived. Use the same incruelty.

That isn't justice. When you do evil things to evil people, you are evil yourself. Justice is just your justification for committing evil. Good people don't do evil to others. Moral people do only what is necessarily to defend them self. That is why we lock away dangerous criminals so they can't hurt us, but cruel punishments are against the law.

I don't know about you guys but I'd totally rape his face cause fuck it I'm atheist.

^ Just invented new category: Gaytheist

There's no god therefore I eat people's faces

aaaaaand banned.

Shame, that was starting to get good, the (shoddily acted) facade was starting to break down.

What is stopping me abusing the man?

Morality.

Originally Posted by Fechtel

Scenario:

You are on a deserted island where there is no police, no law, and no consequences for your actions. There is also a helpless man who is tied up.

Question:

What is stopping you from abusing this man?

empathy. conscience. also why the hell would I? Only a seriously deranged person would waste time abusing someone(whatever that's even supposed to mean) in a survival situation.

Even beyond any kind of moral argument, having another human you can work with to survive and just having a companion would be a positive and anyone who would abuse someone for no reason and throw this away is seriously mental.

Only very weak minds get their morality from laws.

Originally Posted by Fechtel

I never implied that ONLY atheists have these kinds of desires. I think it is deep inside in all of us, no matter what religion! Sometimes we may think we're unable to commit certain acts, but when given the opportunity, knowing there are absolutely no consequences... our deepest desires float right to the top.

Not all atheists realize this, but many if not most, realize that we live in a causal universe. Every single action has a consequence. In your scenario there is no authority, but there are still consequences, like the ones I listed above. Personally, I think if we remove authority, people will be forced to consider the consequences of their actions which will cause people to become more moral, not less. Authority just tells you a very limited consequence and allows you to avoid thinking about the actual consequences.