A (moral) question for Atheists

[Fechtel]

Scenario: You are on a deserted island where there is no police, no law, and no consequences for your actions. There is also a helpless man who is tied up. Question: What is stopping you from abusing this man?

[mcwillis]

I would initially be concerned about who tied him up. Then I would be concerned as to why the helpless man is tied up. I would feed and water him. Then that night I would use a secret occult technique that can only be performed during a lucid dream to interrogate the helpless man to find out the truth about him to make my decision as to whether it would be safe to let him free or not. Either way, free or tied up, I would have no desire to abuse him.

[Michael]

why does being atheist in this situation matter? even if you believe in god, that doesn't mean you automatically believe you will be punished greatly for any wrong doings. And history proves even belief in hell or divine punishment doesn't stop anyone from hurting others. I'm not atheist, but empathy would be what stops me.

[Darkmatters]

What kind of weird question is this? Why is it directed only at atheists? Abuse him how, and for what reason? You're not very good at setting up hypothetical situations. I don't see anything moral about it - you're basically just asking atheists if they're psychotic sadists. Is this directed only at people who admit they're atheists, or also at people who pay lip service to religions without actually believing?

[Supernova]

Actually, to be honest, the idea that "immoral" acts shouldn't be carried out because one will be punished for them or because they violate an external set of rules is the weakest idea of morality I can think of. While you're trying to frame yourself as being more morally grounded than someone without such imposed values, you're really only proving the opposite, because simply to suggest that an atheist would lack moral guidance is to suggest that you believe in no such thing as simple empathy.

[Fechtel]

What kind of weird question is this? A very good one. Why is it directed only at atheists? Because if you eliminate God, the government, and the police, then there is nothing stopping this atheist from going ahead and abusing this man. Knowing he won't get caught, knowing he won't answer for his wrongdoings, and knowing there are absolutely no consequences for his actions, there is nothing to stop him. Abuse him how, and for what reason? I am talking about all kinds of abuse, both psychological (taunting) as well as physical (torture). You're not very good at setting up hypothetical situations. I don't see anything moral about it - you're basically just asking atheists if they're psychotic sadists. Is this directed only at people who admit they're atheists, or also at people who pay lip service to religions without actually believing? It is directed only at atheists.

[Fechtel]

This is pretty sad. What's sad is that you can't answer the question. The correct answer to my question would be "nothing." If I were an atheist, there would be nothing to stop me from having a little fun. If I know that I won't be punished, why not abuse him? Punch punch... Kick kick... Cut cut...

[Darkmatters]

Ok, so then you do believe all atheists are psychotic sadists. You say it is directed only at atheists - I ask again, do you mean only admitted atheists, or does it include the millions upon millions who really are atheists but claim not to be? Also, are you saying that religious people don't harm other people? What if you're a good Christian and you knew this tied-up guy had done something unforgiveable, like raped and murdered your mom, or worked on the sabbath? Or say you're a good Allah-fearing Muslim and the tied-up guy was a heretic or infidel?

[Supernova]

What's sad is that you can't answer the question. The correct answer to my question would be "nothing." If I were an atheist, there would be nothing to stop me from having a little fun. If I know that I won't be punished, why not abuse him? Punch punch... Kick kick... Cut cut... My bad for leaving that edit open so long, please reread that though. Apparently you DON'T believe in simple empathy, which is disappointing.

[Fechtel]

My bad for leaving that edit open so long, please reread that though. Apparently you DON'T believe in simple empathy, which is disappointing. I have re-read it, but it isn't good enough. Empathy alone isn't a strong emotion in many cases, and it isn't found in alot of people, at least not much of it! Empathy can also diminish if you are faced with a scenario such as the one I described. When you choose between pleasure and empathy, most people will choose pleasure. The point of the thread is, where do atheists get their morals from?

[Darkmatters]

Punch punch... Kick kick... Cut cut... ... And how long have you been harboring these sick fantasies... ? Empathy can also diminish if you are faced with a scenario such as the one I described. When you choose between pleasure and empathy, most people will choose pleasure. Wait - so, you think it would be pleasurable to abuse a poor tied-up man, and the only reason you wouldn't is because you fear going to hell?

[Supernova]

I have re-read it, but it isn't good enough. Empathy alone isn't a strong emotion in many cases, and it isn't found in alot of people, at least not much of it! Empathy can also diminish if you are faced with a scenario such as the one I described. When you choose between pleasure and empathy, most people will choose pleasure. The point of the thread is, where do atheists get their morals from? Yeah, pleasure....problem with that is, as several people have pointed out to you already, the only people who derive pleasure from abusing others are violent sociopaths.

[Michael]

I have re-read it, but it isn't good enough. Empathy alone isn't a strong emotion in many cases, and it isn't found in alot of people, at least not much of it! Empathy can also diminish if you are faced with a scenario such as the one I described. When you choose between pleasure and empathy, most people will choose pleasure. The point of the thread is, where do atheists get their morals from? Why would "most people" harm an innocent person tied up.... rather than helping them? You think it's because of their belief in god??? Only sick people would harm the person... and belief in god is irrelevant. You think morals come from religion.... but they come from tradition and feelings. The morals of certain religions stem from peoples' feelings... once again... belief in god is irrelevant. everyone gets their morals the same way... different experiences... but same basic way....

[Fechtel]

Wait - so, you think it would be pleasurable to abuse a poor tied-up man, and the only reason you wouldn't is because you fear going to hell? I am saying that there is no way I would do it.

[Fechtel]

Why would "most people" harm an innocent person tied up.... rather than helping them? You think it's because of their belief in god??? Only sick people would harm the person... and belief in god is irrelevant. You think morals come from religion.... but they come from tradition and feelings. The morals of certain religions stem from peoples' feelings... once again... belief in god is irrelevant. Oh, really? No way, Jose. Tell me why it would be wrong to kill this man. Where/what is your guidance? Empathy isn't good enough.

[Darkmatters]

Ok, looking at Fechtel's other posts, it's clear this is a twisted religious fanatic - possibly another Mayflow alt. I'm done wasting my time here.

[Michael]

Oh, really? No way, Jose. Tell me why it would be wrong to kill this man. Where/what is your guidance? Empathy isn't good enough. I tried. You are stubborn... not willing to learn... and dumb.

[Fechtel]

I am not saying that every single atheist would torture this man, but what I am saying is that those who DO have such tendencies wouldn't have anything to stop them, because of their disbelief in God. They would fear no consequences, because there are none! Perhaps I was misunderstood.

[Darkmatters]

Yeah 'cause - no atrocities were ever committed by religious people, right? Or, like, commanded by God or anything?

[Fechtel]

Yeah 'cause - no atrocities were ever committed by religious people, right? Or, like, commanded by God or anything? People commanded by God? No. There are people who think they are commanded by God to kill, like the Muslims for example. You also need to make a distinction between true Christians and counterfeit Christians (like Hitler).

[Supernova]

Empathy isn't good enough. And who the fuck are you to decide that? And weather or not it's good enough for YOU is irrelevant. And in the way you mean it here, saying that is like asking someone for their opinion and then saying "no. you're wrong. Because I said so".

[Darkmatters]

God commanded all kinds of genocides in the Bible. He commanded that people be stoned to death for all kinds of trivial reasons. Like working on the Sabbath for instance. Plus there were the Crusades. "You also need to make a distinction between true Christians and counterfeit Christians (like Hitler)." Ah ok, so then you do admit that many self-professed Christians actually are false? Good to know. So your question is aimed at all atheists then. No telling how many there are - most people claim some religious affiliation just for social reasons or because it's how they were brought up.

[Fechtel]

God commanded all kinds of genocides in the Bible. He commanded that people be stoned to death for all kinds of trivial reasons. Like working on the Sabbath for instance. Old Testament stuff, not applicable today at all. Plus there were the Crusades. The crusades were NOT commanded by God! Ah ok, so then you do admit that many self-professed Christians actually are false? Good to know. I have no problem with that. Even many preachers are counterfeit Christians. Examples: Joel Osteen, Robert Schuller, etc. So your question is aimed at all atheists then. No telling how many there are - most people claim some religious affiliation just for social reasons or because it's how they were brought up. I am religious because I truly believe. Not because I want to belong to some group.

[Darkmatters]

Old Testament stuff, not applicable today at all. Oh really? Well that's interesting. So parts of the Bible are not applicable. How do you know which parts to ignore? And your own judgement isn't good enough (if empathy isn't good enough) - it needs to be specifically stated somewhere in the Bible itself. The crusades were NOT commanded by God! I didn't say they were - I said God himself decreed some murders and genocides, and that other atrocities were committed by religious fanatics in the name of their god. It's a known fact that the moralistic certainties of religion tends to attract a lot of mentally abberrant people - many of whom are violent or sadistic. I'm not saying all religious people are like this of course - people are people, there are all different types in religion as well as outside of it. But there's a fringe element of crazies who are powerfully attracted to religion. They get themselves all fired up on righteous indignation and believe they have been chosen by God to be his scourge. So - seems like religion is no more a hedge against immorality than atheism, hmmmn? I have no problem with that. Even many preachers are counterfeit Christians. Examples: Joel Osteen, Robert Schuller, etc. Yes, and all the Catholic priests diddling children - again, it seems fear of God doesn't really stop people from abusing others, does it?

[Descensus]

I get really tired of this "can't be good without God" nonsense.