Jesus is cool.

[Abra]

Religion is a man-made institution. God didn't come down from his ball of water vapor and grip his Caucasian male hand around an inked quill to write the Bible. No, John and Matthew and a bunch of other relatively white males did. I believe Jesus is cool. There are, however, a few limits to this. First and most importantly is that I doubt if Jesus came from God. Zeus and Poseidon and friends loved to "magically impregnate" women. But we all know it's a common women's lie so that she isn't caught committing adultery and such (the penalty for which in those days must've been deadly). Anyway, people accepted Jesus's virgin birth. Actually, this is a good thing, because Jesus was a pretty smart guy. Jesus was smart. He realized the lies his mother made, and knew how to use them to his advantage. He laced many of his teachings with damning threats and heavenly bribes, which is a pretty dirty trick to us now, but to the primitive people he taught, it made them listen all the more intently. Luckily, Jesus was as kind as he was smart. Now that he had his crowd listening, he could help improve the world around him. He looked out for the underdog. He advocated helping the ill, the weak, and the handicapped in a time where if you were a newborn with an extra toe, you were thrown into a well. In a roundabout way, he told his followers that homosexuality should be tolerated. Should not we love our neighbors, our enemies, and those that are different? No, love them the same. Give to others, and the good times will boomerang eventually. If you take out the bribes and threats (and the decay and distortion of truth over time), what dudes like Jesus say makes a lot of sense. It's a good ideology to live by. But some atheists like bashing Jesus. But I think they are pointing their religious frustrations at the wrong guy. It's the churches, and the masses that accept what they say unwaveringly, (as opposed to deciphering a better truth for themselves), that you are after. So don't worry, bitter atheists. You can believe that some of Jesus's teachings are good: I'll allow you to. This thread was made only half-heartedly, and thus is to be taken only half-literally. (Predicted move to Senseless Banter: less than 2 hours)

[dragonoverlord]

Who knows what jesus was really like in real life. the bible has a habit of exagerating his good traits and glorifiing the things he did(if he existed that is), so who knows. Apparently back in those days people who started their own pseudo relegions like jesus where quite common. You have you're theory, i have mine.

[Abra]

Who knows what jesus was really like in real life. the bible has a habit of exagerating his good traits and glorifiing the things he did(if he existed that is), so who knows. Apparently back in those days people who started their own pseudo relegions like jesus where quite common. You have you're theory, i have mine. But even if Jesus never existed, he was created for good reasons. They glorify his life and teachings. Of course, they only glorify the stuff he said that's beneficial to the fellow human. My point is, the core ideas of religion are primarily benevolent, and shouldn't be instantly discarded by bandwagon atheists (who annoy me as much as bandwagon Christians).

[dragonoverlord]

But even if Jesus never existed, he was created for good reasons. They glorify his life and teachings. Of course, they only glorify the stuff he said that's beneficial to the fellow human. My point is, the core ideas of religion are primarily benevolent, and shouldn't be instantly discarded by bandwagon atheists (who annoy me as much as bandwagon Christians). hehe im a bandwagon atheist but the only relegion i go after is christianity. Im ok with the other ones and even defend them. Anyway i agree with you're point about relegion being primarily benevolent just it can seem so ridiculous you can't resist poking at with a (verbal) stick.

[Grod]

Why dragonoverlord? I've wondered why so many atheists have some sort of hatred towards Christianity.

[Moonbeam]

He advocated helping the ill, the weak, and the handicapped in a time where if you were a newborn with an extra toe, you were thrown into a well. Yuk, dead-baby water. But some atheists like bashing Jesus. But I think they are pointing their religious frustrations at the wrong guy. I have no problem with Jesus protecting six-toed babies; however, he also supported all of the bad things in the Old Testament. 1) “For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV) Clearly the Old Testament is to be abided by until the end of human existence itself. None other then Jesus said so. 2) All of the vicious Old Testament laws will be binding forever. "It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17 NAB) 3) Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn’t the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Matthew 5:17 NAB) 3b) "All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness..." (2 Timothy 3:16 NAB) 3c) "Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God." (2 Peter 20-21 NAB) 4) Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children according to Old Testament law. Mark.7:9-13 "Whoever curses father or mother shall die" (Mark 7:10 NAB) 5) Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: “He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.” (Matthew 15:4-7) 6) Jesus has a punishment even worse than his father concerning adultery: God said the act of adultery was punishable by death. Jesus says looking with lust is the same thing and you should gouge your eye out, better a part, than the whole. The punishment under Jesus is an eternity in Hell. (Matthew 5:27) 7) Peter says that all slaves should “be subject to [their] masters with all fear,” to the bad and cruel as well as the “good and gentle.” This is merely an echo of the same slavery commands in the Old Testament. 1 Peter 2:18 8) “Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law" (John7:19) and “For the law was given by Moses,..." (John 1:17). 9) “...the scripture cannot be broken.” --Jesus Christ, John 10:35 So don't worry, bitter atheists. You can believe that some of Jesus's teachings are good: I'll allow you to.

[Riot Maker]

Why dragonoverlord? I've wondered why so many atheists have some sort of hatred towards Christianity. i also share the same wonderment. Do they feel more threatened by christianity than any other religion?

[dragonoverlord]

i also share the same wonderment. Do they feel more threatened by christianity than any other religion? Bad expereinces with christianity when i was little and since im part arabic i feel like im being insulted when christians try to proselytze at me, my mom and my sister. Right now, im living with my dad but now my mom is in the gripp of some evangelical christians when she is at her most fragilist and they jump at the opportunity. They are opportunists and disgust me.

[Riot Maker]

Bad expereinces with christianity when i was little and since im part arabic i feel like im being insulted when christians try to proselytze at me, my mom and my sister. Right now, im living with my dad but now my mom is in the gripp of some evangelical christians when she is at her most fragilist and they jump at the opportunity. They are opportunists and disgust me. Ohh, Evangelicals piss me off to with their young earth creationism and all that bull. If you had a bad expeirence in christianity i could understand why you would not be christian. But i have to say if you had a bad experince when riding your bike, would you ever ride it again? What i mean by that is have you ever thought about being a christian again, or are you just done with it all together?

[dragonoverlord]

Ohh, Evangelicals piss me off to with their young earth creationism and all that bull. If you had a bad expeirence in christianity i could understand why you would not be christian. But i have to say if you had a bad experince when riding your bike, would you ever ride it again? What i mean by that is have you ever thought about being a christian again, or are you just done with it all together? I never was a christain to begin with,I was little and i just tagged along with my mom when the brought her to the churches and the bible reading things. Anyway just the atmpospher of the church seemed to be reidiculous, everyone put on fake smiles and acted so fake in churches, It just disgusted me. seriously everyone acted/acts so fake around churches.I wonder if any of them actually beleived what that preist was saying. People dress up in suits and dresses and wave their arms in the air when some fat white shit recites words from a 2000 year old work of fiction. WTF. I was always bored at churches and always hated them anyway just the bad experences was just icing on the cake.

[Riot Maker]

I never was a christain to begin with,I was little and i just tagged along with my mom when the brought her to the churches and the bible reading things. Anyway just the atmpospher of the church seemed to be reidiculous, everyone put on fake smiles and acted so fake in churches, It just disgusted me. seriously everyone acted/acts so fake around churches.I wonder if any of them actually beleived what that preist was saying. People dress up in suits and dresses and wave their arms in the air when some fat white shit recites words from a 2000 year old work of fiction. WTF. I was always bored at churches and always hated them anyway just the bad experences was just icing on the cake. Ahhh i see, i haven't been to a church in 3 years becuse of the same reasons that mentioned perrty much. To me i always wondered how many people were there just bo "there" and how many people "knew" why they were there. I bet 9-10 people in church don't even know anything about christianity other than what they ahve heard in church and that's sad.

[aceboy]

No, John and Matthew and a bunch of other relatively white males did. hate to break this to ya guys but matthew , mark ,luke, even Jesus the big man himself looked like Saddam Hussein----they were born in the middle east jesus wasnt white like all the pictures of him are.

[Bearsy]

Jesus, if he did exist was cool, his message was cool and his M.O. was cool. Its his church that I have a problem with. They skewed his original message which was of peace, love, goodwill, and all the stuff fundies fought so hard against in the 60s during the Hippie movement. They turned his message into one of fear tactics, wrapped in a soft happy coating, used for unfettered social control and they still try today, although thankfully they are much less successful. I'm of the belief that Jesus(again, if he did exist) was more of a Buddha type, with no connection or claim to deification, only a message of peace, hope and love, but his followers claimed his deity to promote him more and very soon it became accepted as fact.

[Carôusoul]

I'm a fan of Jesus; except when he goes all arrogant; "I am the light of the world" etc. There I was thinking it was the sun; or innate human decency. Hmph. I'm not particularly hostile to any particular religion, I just enjoy arguing my point with theists; because most of the time they cannot win.

[psychology student]

Yuk, dead-baby water. I have no problem with Jesus protecting six-toed babies; however, he also supported all of the bad things in the Old Testament. 1) “For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV) Clearly the Old Testament is to be abided by until the end of human existence itself. None other then Jesus said so. 2) All of the vicious Old Testament laws will be binding forever. "It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17 NAB) 3) Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn’t the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Matthew 5:17 NAB) 3b) "All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness..." (2 Timothy 3:16 NAB) 3c) "Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God." (2 Peter 20-21 NAB) 4) Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children according to Old Testament law. Mark.7:9-13 "Whoever curses father or mother shall die" (Mark 7:10 NAB) 5) Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: “He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.” (Matthew 15:4-7) 6) Jesus has a punishment even worse than his father concerning adultery: God said the act of adultery was punishable by death. Jesus says looking with lust is the same thing and you should gouge your eye out, better a part, than the whole. The punishment under Jesus is an eternity in Hell. (Matthew 5:27) 7) Peter says that all slaves should “be subject to [their] masters with all fear,” to the bad and cruel as well as the “good and gentle.” This is merely an echo of the same slavery commands in the Old Testament. 1 Peter 2:18 8) “Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law" (John7:19) and “For the law was given by Moses,..." (John 1:17). 9) “...the scripture cannot be broken.” --Jesus Christ, John 10:35 What a bunch of out of context crap. Read the bible properly and understand it if you want to quote it, and indoctrinate people against it. Everyting you wrote is written way out of context.

[aceboy]

Jesus has a punishment even worse than his father concerning adultery: God said the act of adultery was punishable by death. Jesus says looking with lust is the same thing and you should gouge your eye out, better a part, than the whole. The punishment under Jesus is an eternity in Hell. (Matthew 5:27) you turn around to look at a hot chick that just past you...adultery by only looking

[skysaw]

I've wondered why so many atheists have some sort of hatred towards Christianity. Being an Atheist, I will address that. I live in the US and am surrounded by bigoted Christians everywhere. They are on my television, running my congress, and knocking on my door. Because these are the people I'm dealing with, it makes sense I would know a lot more about them then those from other religions who don't affect my life so much. It's much easier to attack something you know about, and which surrounds you daily. I do have some animosity towards the church as an institution and against religious leaders who push their agendas on the public. I harbor no ill-will towards the average Christian, who I view as simply being misled by these people.

[Lucid_boy]

Religion is a man-made institution. God didn't come down from his ball of water vapor and grip his Caucasian male hand around an inked quill to write the Bible. No, John and Matthew and a bunch of other relatively white males did. I believe Jesus is cool. There are, however, a few limits to this. First and most importantly is that I doubt if Jesus came from God. Zeus and Poseidon and friends loved to "magically impregnate" women. But we all know it's a common women's lie so that she isn't caught committing adultery and such (the penalty for which in those days must've been deadly). Anyway, people accepted Jesus's virgin birth. Actually, this is a good thing, because Jesus was a pretty smart guy. Jesus was smart. He realized the lies his mother made, and knew how to use them to his advantage. He laced many of his teachings with damning threats and heavenly bribes, which is a pretty dirty trick to us now, but to the primitive people he taught, it made them listen all the more intently. Luckily, Jesus was as kind as he was smart. Now that he had his crowd listening, he could help improve the world around him. He looked out for the underdog. He advocated helping the ill, the weak, and the handicapped in a time where if you were a newborn with an extra toe, you were thrown into a well. In a roundabout way, he told his followers that homosexuality should be tolerated. Should not we love our neighbors, our enemies, and those that are different? No, love them the same. Give to others, and the good times will boomerang eventually. If you take out the bribes and threats (and the decay and distortion of truth over time), what dudes like Jesus say makes a lot of sense. It's a good ideology to live by. But some atheists like bashing Jesus. But I think they are pointing their religious frustrations at the wrong guy. It's the churches, and the masses that accept what they say unwaveringly, (as opposed to deciphering a better truth for themselves), that you are after. So don't worry, bitter atheists. You can believe that some of Jesus's teachings are good: I'll allow you to. This thread was made only half-heartedly, and thus is to be taken only half-literally. (Predicted move to Senseless Banter: less than 2 hours) Jesus could have acually believed that he was the son of god and truley HAVE thought was preaching what god had sent to him, even if he was delusional (Which I don't think he was, I think he was who he said he was) that doesn't mean he was manipulative. You could look at it like maybe jesus was some crazy guy (Although I in no way believe he was. I believe he was the true son of god.)

[Moonbeam]

What a bunch of out of context crap. Read the bible properly and understand it if you want to quote it, and indoctrinate people against it. Everyting you wrote is written way out of context. I don't respond to the "out of context" argument anymore. Take it for what it's worth.

[Abra]

@aceboy: Yes, I'm well aware that those guys weren't Caucasian. The are 'relatively white,' because nowadays whenever you think of anything godly, you end up thinking of a bunch of white guys. It annoys me a little when people call Jesus white. @Moonbeam: Although I can interpret the quotes my own way, or make excuses for the quotes themselves, that's not really the point of the thread. Very interesting quotes, especially the one where he tells people to kill wise-cracking kids. XD

[psychology student]

I don't respond to the "out of context" argument anymore. Take it for what it's worth. Good, it means your argument is invalid.

[bluefinger]

Good, it means your argument is invalid. Her opinion is as valid as yours, and as she even bothered to dig up the quotes in order to back up her point, so at least give her the benefit of a proper discussion as opposed to the blatant defensive and aggressive response I see so many fundamentalists use. If you can't handle someone using your very own Bible to prove their point on whatever issue, then you can always do this: Walk away. Take a chill pill and go off to do whatever you want. If you really believe in your religion, then you shouldn't get wound up by something like this. Pure and simple.

[psychology student]

Her opinion is as valid as yours, and as she even bothered to dig up the quotes in order to back up her point, so at least give her the benefit of a proper discussion as opposed to the blatant defensive and aggressive response I see so many fundamentalists use. If you can't handle someone using your very own Bible to prove their point on whatever issue, then you can always do this: Walk away. Take a chill pill and go off to do whatever you want. If you really believe in your religion, then you shouldn't get wound up by something like this. Pure and simple. Ok, lets get back to basics with a hypothetical: "It is preposterous that I hate ethnic minorities". If someone takes this quote out of context in way of "I hate ethnic minorities", is their opinion and subsequent portrayal of the initial statement valid? And now to your post: Really, I made a detailed post on many of Moonbeam's quotes before. Her quotations didn't affect me, its the fact that she's spreading mis-portrayals to others. Its not like someone swearing in my face (which can be easily dealt with by walking away, as you suggest) but rather someone defaming something important to me, behind my back or to others. You made an allusion to fundamentalism; implicitly, that I am a fundamentalist. Not really, I'm not.

[Traveling_Troubador]

Religion is a man-made institution. God didn't come down from his ball of water vapor and grip his Caucasian male hand around an inked quill to write the Bible. No, John and Matthew and a bunch of other relatively white males did. I believe Jesus is cool. There are, however, a few limits to this. First and most importantly is that I doubt if Jesus came from God. Zeus and Poseidon and friends loved to "magically impregnate" women. But we all know it's a common women's lie so that she isn't caught committing adultery and such (the penalty for which in those days must've been deadly). Anyway, people accepted Jesus's virgin birth. Actually, this is a good thing, because Jesus was a pretty smart guy. Jesus was smart. He realized the lies his mother made, and knew how to use them to his advantage. He laced many of his teachings with damning threats and heavenly bribes, which is a pretty dirty trick to us now, but to the primitive people he taught, it made them listen all the more intently. Luckily, Jesus was as kind as he was smart. Now that he had his crowd listening, he could help improve the world around him. He looked out for the underdog. He advocated helping the ill, the weak, and the handicapped in a time where if you were a newborn with an extra toe, you were thrown into a well. In a roundabout way, he told his followers that homosexuality should be tolerated. Should not we love our neighbors, our enemies, and those that are different? No, love them the same. Give to others, and the good times will boomerang eventually. If you take out the bribes and threats (and the decay and distortion of truth over time), what dudes like Jesus say makes a lot of sense. It's a good ideology to live by. But some atheists like bashing Jesus. But I think they are pointing their religious frustrations at the wrong guy. It's the churches, and the masses that accept what they say unwaveringly, (as opposed to deciphering a better truth for themselves), that you are after. So don't worry, bitter atheists. You can believe that some of Jesus's teachings are good: I'll allow you to. This thread was made only half-heartedly, and thus is to be taken only half-literally. (Predicted move to Senseless Banter: less than 2 hours) HEAR HEAR SIR! In the Church of the Subgenius we call him "Fightin' Jesus", fightin' the power and fightin' the man alike. Pray Bob! Thank Yahweh, we have a rational <insert label here> on the board! Like I said on another topic, thanks to people like Jesus, we have a rational basis for morality, and we no longer have a need of religion. Hi five!

[bluefinger]

Ok, lets get back to basics with a hypothetical: "It is preposterous that I hate ethnic minorities". If someone takes this quote out of context in way of "I hate ethnic minorities", is their opinion and subsequent portrayal of the initial statement valid? And now to your post: Really, I made a detailed post on many of Moonbeam's quotes before. Her quotations didn't affect me, its the fact that she's spreading mis-portrayals to others. Its not like someone swearing in my face (which can be easily dealt with by walking away, as you suggest) but rather someone defaming something important to me, behind my back or to others. You made an allusion to fundamentalism; implicitly, that I am a fundamentalist. Not really, I'm not. Alright, here I go. First of all, Moonbeam simply took quotes straight from the Bible in order to make a point. She didn't make a racist/fascist/bigoted comment, she was presenting an argument using a source you would use for your own case. It's not a false portrayal if it's coming straight out of the Bible, and the fact you were quite quick to assert falsehood just stinks of insecurity. If I put the time and effort to do a tonne of research, I'd probably be able to dig up a vast amounts of dirt on the Bible, simply by flicking through the pages of that very book. And if I were to give my spin on the thing, using the very scriptures you hold dear, you'd simply say it is all out of context, no? You wouldn't accept it because you simply don't want to even entertain the notion that the Bible itself is flawed. Secondly, I stated that your behaviour in regards to the post you made to Moonbeam was like how fundamentalists act in these sorts of situations. And to be honest, I call it as I see it. If you want to change my perception on this, then please, act less aggressively and be more conducive to debate, as opposed to crying out "Out of Context!" or "You are wrong!". If I come off a bit strongly on this, fine, I'll accept that. I, however, don't accept such blatant disregard of other's opinion just because it doesn't quite fit in with your own beliefs.