Thread: What You All Must Understand (Believers and Non Believers)

Originally Posted by TweaK

Topic creator, you are biased, narrow-minded and most probably indoctrinated. You create a topic as if it is a truth, and you create a topic as if you're going to set us all straight.

I sincerely hope you die in a fire have a good life, but next time fuck off please refrain from creating such topics full of aids fail idiocy .. Yeah, never mind. I won't finish my sentence.

.

Originally Posted by lonestarx

...aboult...

About.

Originally Posted by TweaK

Topic creator, you are biased, narrow-minded and most probably indoctrinated. You create a topic as if it is a truth, and you create a topic as if you're going to set us all straight.

I sincerely hope you die in a fire have a good life, but next time fuck off please refrain from creating such topics full of aids fail idiocy .. Yeah, never mind. I won't finish my sentence.

I feel sorry to agree with Tweak lol

lol me too
omg i just turned into an aoluser

Normal service will be resumed as soon as possible.

Originally Posted by lonestarx

the post aboult satan tempting us into christianity... christianity is based off the fact Jesus died for us. So satan tempting us ito that would not benifet his plan. Also Jesus is God. But rember We have the Father, the son and holy spirit, all in one. So worshiping jesus alone isnt right~we have the father who made us. Also Jesus was being an example of how we should all live- when he prayed to the father, refering that the father only knows meaning we should remember God~not just Jesus.

You're missing the point. You're interpreting the Bible as truth, but if it was Satan who created it, that's exactly what he would want you to think.

We are trying to say that it's impossible to know whether or not it is God's word, or Satan's. We are saying that Satan could have created the Bible to trick people into believing it, and therefore attain our souls. We are saying that what if the true religion was different, and Satan created the Bible to trick you into believing it. It could explain why it says to not believe any others claiming to be the true word of God.

You might argue that the Bible says to do good things, and that Satan wouldn't say that. But thats the whole point. It would be the best way to trick people, and once he does he owns your soul so God can't help you.

You may not believe it, but it is a possibility that Satan created the Bible to trick you, just like it's a possibility it was created by God to save you. So what do you do? Believe it in case it's God's word, which saves you as long as you don't sin. Or don't believe it, in case it's one of Satan's tricks, the master of trickery, the greatest trick of all, and saves you from going to hell.

To me if you believe the Bible has any bit of truth, you should see that Satan could have tricked or tempted or possessed someone in power to change the Bible to damn us to hell. Remember than a long time ago, there were very few people who could actually read, so it wouldn't be too hard. And if you don't believe people who accept God can be influenced by Satan, take a good look at recent news. Do the words "priest" and "molestation" ring any bells? Take a look at history books too, I'm sure you'll read of corrupt Popes.

"Popes like Alexander VI, an ambitious if spectacularly corrupt politician, and Pope Julius II, a formidable general and statesman, were not afraid to use power to achieve their own ends, which included increasing the power of the papacy."

Religion has, and is used to gain power over people.

Originally Posted by sourcejedi

Now you're playing devils advocate.

Muhammed didn't create a religion which includes evangelists who sincerely believe and preach that 1) we have eternal souls 2) we are all sinners 3) after death, we will suffer eternal torment unless we are accepted into Heaven 4) To be accepted into heaven, it is both necessary and sufficient to have accepted Jesus as your saivour (sp?).

This is from a book I read by Billy Graham. As memory serves, he explicitly enumerated the possibilities.

1) Sincere deathbed conversion of a sinner -> heaven
2) Virtuous non-believer dies -> hell

I stopped reading the book almost immediately. I saw those two juxtaposed, and I was simply unwilling to learn anything more from it. Theres a limit to how much wrongness I feel safe exposing myself to at once.

--

Despite their source material, which it would be presumptuous of me to attempt to compare to the Bible, the Muslim world went through a liberal period of openness not unlike the Renaissance of Western Europe. I don't know of anything fundamental to Christianity that would prevent it from regressing to the blood-lust of the Crusades and other periods of excess. In the same way that a very narrow-minded version of Islam is currently at large in many countries.

True Christians extend the hand of friendship to the many Muslims who _do_ cherish the more liberal values of the democracies they live in. They desire and deserve your respect and good feeling.

Thank you. I know christianity respects there religion very much. i just wanted to see the person who called jesus the devil respond. but thanks.

Originally Posted by TweaK

Topic creator, you are biased, narrow-minded and most probably indoctrinated. You create a topic as if it is a truth, and you create a topic as if you're going to set us all straight.

I sincerely hope you die in a fire have a good life, but next time fuck off please refrain from creating such topics full of aids fail idiocy .. Yeah, never mind. I won't finish my sentence.

I agree with TweaK????

*faints*

In heaven my father and i are one.

The christian god exists.

It's just not as pagan as they make it out to be.

your still not making any sense. But lets put it in ur prespective. Maybe it could be satan is tricking us or God trying to lead us home. Lets stop debating this. Let me be in my beliefs and you be in yours; theres no sense in fighting. This thread is to help those trouble realize the truth. Its fine u have questions but in no way was me or spiritedwolf fighting, namecalling etc. as some of you have done here. As much as we want u to know the truth, its still ur CHOICE. So lets try to keep it clean guys

So what makes this Satan character evil exactly?

He is a fallen angel right? Expelled because he tried to what? overthrow God?

So God sends him and a third of angels( were these also all corrupt or what is it some kind of deal that Satan got his own followers?) to Hell for what ever Satan did. How exactly does this make Satan an EVIL being. So according to the people he tries to lead us away from God and offers us earthly pleasures, what is SO evil about that? It's like the Labour and Conservative parties in British Politics, Labour is for the working class people( supposedly) and is left wing( not now..). The Conservatives are more a group of middle and high class people, more about profits and money, they are right wing( again not much anymore, both are the same). They want you to vote for them and have different ideals on how the country should be run. How is this so different from God and Satan?

Satan offers us more of our desires, wealth, pleasure, gluttony etc, God argues this will make us shallow. God offers us a perfect life in heaven as long as we show ourself to be good people in this life, Satan may argue humans deserve the best quality of life available, even if it doesn't make them perfect.

What i don't understand is how Satan is branded a torturer? Where does it say he specifically enjoys torturing humans for ever and ever? It seems to me God has forced his job upon him or it is propaganda from the "God" party against the "Satan" party.

OK Lone, how about this. You've 'warned" us. That was your true intention right?

So ok then.

(What the hell am I doing here anyway?)

Originally Posted by Xox

OK Lone, how about this. You've 'warned" us. That was your true intention right?

So ok then.

(What the hell am I doing here anyway?)

Same thing I'm asking myself.

LOL xox. idk. Yea thats what Im saying.... not to you but again why argue? we warned and want to answer questions pple are willing to ask. Not answer and go back and forth. Again guys lets do this right

Is god "all powerful"? Can he do absolutely anything? Can he create absolutely anything?




That is my question, lonestarx.

In christian beliefs, yes he is. But we have freewill. So if we murder, rape, its our choice and if your not saved and give up your sinful ways- you will go to Hell... even though pple dont wanna hear that but... if you dont believe in God and that Jesus died for us and rose- you will go to hell... I cant put it any other way.

Originally Posted by lonestarx

In christian beliefs, yes he is. But we have freewill. So if we murder, rape, its our choice and if your not saved and give up your sinful ways- you will go to Hell... even though pple dont wanna hear that but... if you dont believe in God and that Jesus died for us and rose- you will go to hell... I cant put it any other way.

Ok, regardless of that though; if God wanted, he could take free will away.

So he is 100% powerful in every way??

If its God's will to take away freewill then he would. Yes he is all powerful. One thing to add I was thinking aboult was when pple complain aboult God being unjust sending pple to hell. Put yourself as God- you try to show your creation to follow you. After all attempts they still refuse. You come down as Jesus, showing the way to live and died bearing their sin on your back, Even after all that pple still dont care that you love them. Even after all that you still love your creation. just a thought.

Originally Posted by spiritofthewolf

I have been reading and somewhat replying to some peoples comments about Christianity and the Bible....

Alot of people have some negative views on Christians... I myself am a Christian..I must stand up for what is true and what is right...

So, it's 100% right? No doubt about it? Well alright then. I thought that this was more of an opinion and faith based thing, but since you, being the... spirit of the wolf... you just know what's up huh?

You must all understand that we are in a spiritual battle..even if you dont believe you are in a spiritual battle... If you do not believe it lets Satan more easily minuplate your mind,actions,thoughts,decisions because you do not have a solid ground to place your feet and every part of your soul..

And that's supposed to be what? God? I have a God. He's just a different one than yours. Sorry bud. Jesus? He's pretty cool I guess... did some cool things. Fed people with fish and bread, made some wine, appears on grilled cheeses... don't really think I should stand on him though.

Alot of people think that when they get all angry and mad and yell at somebody or say bad things about Christians its really them saying it... But sadly, it is not.. It is actually the actions of Satan working through them..Just like Jesus Christ can work through us, so can Satan.....

Oh shit! Really? Because I thought that whenever somebody is really really stupid and has no common sense I got mad at them because they were being dumbasses. Now that I know that I'm devil possessed, I probably should get possessed by people huh? Anything that is able to manipulate you is not going to be good for you. I'm not manipulated by Jesus or the Devil because, to me, they are imaginary. Imagination Land. We can nuke it.

You might not be manipulated by "the devil", but you're definiely being manipulated by some people. Which causes you to be the ignorant, blind, hypocritical sheep that you are. Follow me sheep! This way! Do this! Do that! Recruit!

Now you must be like..How do you know this...

More like, "How do you really think this?"

Well if they were SAVED and a Christian they would not ridicule people for being people..they would have loving and open arms...

Cough - Hypocrit - Cough

You honestly can't say that because people are Christians they are compassionate. Most if not nearly all Christians are usually jerks to non-Christians, and are usually really uptight assholes. I don't consider loving and open arms as telling people that they are devil possessed, being disconsiderate to other's religions and beliefs, and saying that we will go to hell for not believing in your beliefs.

People talk about the BIBLE being just a story and its all made up, when again, it has been proven fact over and over again...dont believe me....take the time to read a book by Lee Strobell called "A Case For Christ" It is about an Atheist Professor who sets out to disprove Jesus Christ and who he was, but in the end becomes a believer himself because quote himself says "There is just too much evidence proving Jesus Christ and The Bible"

The Bible was written thousands of years ago in languages that have no roots near Latin which is what most European languages come from including English. Try translating English to Chinese. The meanings are nothing near the same at all. Now try translating from Koptic to Hebrew to this to that to tons of other languages. Pre-Koptic languages. It's like the telephone game to the extreme. For all we know, our English Bible could be way way off from the original texts. You may say, The Dead Sea Scrolls prove them all. There is still some lost in translation occuring, and the dead sea scrolls are ripped the fuck up.

Secondly. The Bible was written by people. God did not get a pencil and write the words that you are reading. People think that he may have told people to write them down. These people claiming to be told by God this stuff, for all we know, could have one of many diseases or dillusions. They could have been on some kind of drug, they could have been wanting attention or to make a name for themselves, they could have just wanted to play a prank on people and say that God spoke to them. People have motives that make pretty much everything in the Bible null and void. One example would be The "Gnostic" Gospel of Judas. What? A Gospel besides Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John? There were like 28 gospels I think. That number I pull off the top of my head, so it's probably wrong. But I know it was over 20. The church chose not to include these Gospels for whatever reason. Maybe they made the church look bad, disillusioned Jesus, or explained some things they wanted unexplained, or some other reason. In the Gospel of Judas, it says that Jesus, at the last supper, pulled Judas aside and told him that he would have to give Jesus to the Romans to be executed. He told him this because, if Judas never did it, then there would have been no crucifiction, dieing for sins, etc. However, when you get to Mathew, it says that Judas became evil and devil possessed. Maybe Mathew was jealous of Judas for getting this privelidge from Jesus. That's some bad connotation from jealousy. Lets say that that is what happened, and he was jealous. That would mean that people were writing scripts with emotional biases. That would mean that nearly everything written in the Bible is bullshit.

I understand that everyone has their own opinions/beliefs and what not..But are you really willing to risk your eternal life for your own opinions.?

You're certainly willing to risk yours for your beliefs. I'm willing to risk mine for mine. I think that mine makes way more sense than yours do. Do you understand how unbelievably offensive that is? We all have our own opinions and beliefs. I am Agnostic. I follow my own lifestyle in life and spirituality. My lifestyle makes me the most full, happy person I can be. I don't have many rituals and beliefs, because I like to keep it simple and based on the very basis of spirituality. I am still growing in my spirit all the time, and I couldn't be happier.

I tried being a couple different things before this. The main one being Christian. Believe me, I would take what I have now versus being Christian any time. And I would certainly risk anything on my beliefs even though they are not yet complete.

And according to most of this world, you are going to hell because you are not following other's religions. People with just as much certainty as you that they are right, that believe that their's is fact and your sounds crazy.

I use to be a non believer and even did not like God but through my life events and where I am today there is no doubt there is a God..

This is the basis of nearly every religion. This doesn't mean that you have to be Christian.

I have heard personally many accounts by people and read books about the subjects of being brought down to hell or even brought up to heaven.. Just recently a lady around the Raleigh North Carolina area was in a hospital and was clincally dead for 4 hours.. The doctors did all they could and the coroner was on the way to come get the body.. The family was around the body and in the room and they all prayed....She ended up coming back to life and left the hosptial a few days later....Coincidence?? or Miricale??? Too bad there are no coincidences in life, and Miricales come from the Lord

It might be a coincidence, and might not, but what do you define as a miracle? If a miracle is something that God himself did as in bring this person back to life, where's your proof of this? There are certainly coincidences in life, and if you've been told different, then you've been mislead.

Yes, it's a miracle if that really did happen and she came back to life after 4 hours of being dead. Divine intervention? Who knows? You may believe so because you wish to, you believe in God given miracles, you've been told by a superior Christian that it was miracle, etc. I'd love to know how this proves Christianity to be right.

Lets say that the family and her were Buddhist, or even Atheist. Would she have come back to life then?

If only you believe like I believe, baby We'd get by. If only you believe in miracles, baby So would i.

All in All people's eyes must be opened to the fact that there is and has always been a spiritual battle going on..Satan will tell you lies that are one inch away from the TRUTH.. He wont tell you that getting involved with drugs could cause you to go to jail or even cause you to have an addiction.. He will tell you.. "Oh come on, its fun, it feels good" Or he will even tell you "I dont see why everybody doesnt do drugs"

Trust me, Ive over come a 5 year drug addiction, its crazy stuff.. I have been sober for 2 years and there is no way I just magically "Quit"...

It is crazy stuff. You sound like your about five, so I assume that you've been fed drugs since conception.

Aside from making fun of your personal struggles, I don't think that the Devil has tried to get me to do anything. Or I haven't heard him. Unless I, in fact, am the devil. Then I would have heard him because I hear me. The Devil doesn't tell you to go to jail probably because he is a spiritual manifestation, while jail is a physical thing. Or do you say that anybody who does drugs or goes to jail is going to hell? Wasn't Jesus put in jail for a bit? John the Baptist probably went to jail before they cut his head off.

The way you magically quit. Will power, placebo, medication that weenes you off drugs, friends, family, groups, coucilors, ect. God may have helped you, or it might have been "God" as a placebo. You might have realized that it was time to quit and had the will to do it when you didn't before.

Satan is the greatest deciever of them all...You maybe reading this thinking "This guy is full of it, or stupid"

Yeah.

but that is what the Devil wants you to think..

I want the devil to think that I think that he wants me to think this. So while he thinks I have two pair, I whip out my boat! Third tier thoughts baby! I think ahead of those people on the low stakes.

I play too much poker?

He doesnt want you to Love Jesus Christ and believe the Bible.....So when you are done reading this ask yourself this question.. Is this my true beliefs...or is it of Satan...If you are a believer...you already know the answer.....

The Devil sounds like my kind of guy then. We have the same thoughts I guess. You sure he runs hell? Or maybe I'll get to run it huh?

It's me. Satan's in your head bud.

Then I saw her face, now I'm a believer. Not a trace... of doubt in my mind. I'm in love oooohh OOOOOHH OHHHH I'm a believer I couldn't leave her if I tried. - The Monkees are great.


On another note, Thanks for this read! I love being reminded every now and then that there's many people who are so easily manipulated and stupid. Gives me confidence. Like the pretty girls that have the fat ugly friends to remind them that they're hot. Except spiritually and common sensibly.

And this had me laughing the whole time.

Peace.

Originally Posted by lonestarx

If its God's will to take away freewill then he would. Yes he is all powerful. One thing to add I was thinking aboult was when pple complain aboult God being unjust sending pple to hell. Put yourself as God- you try to show your creation to follow you. After all attempts they still refuse. You come down as Jesus, showing the way to live and died bearing their sin on your back, Even after all that pple still dont care that you love them. Even after all that you still love your creation. just a thought.

So if they don't listen they deserve to burn in hell forever? You think they deserve that? More importantly you think God wants to do that to them?

Originally Posted by lonestarx

Yes he is all powerful.

Does he have the power to create something he cannot do?

Originally Posted by Carôusoul

Does he have the power to create something he cannot do?

That creates a paradox of Godly proportions.

Luckily, because he is God, he could find a way out of it.

Originally Posted by Stephent91

That creates a paradox of Godly proportions.

Luckily, because he is God, he could find a way out of it.

He's like James Bond. Find a way out of any situation. Usually via "Yeah but.. God"

I bet he couldn't play guitar really well.

Because, Clapton, in fact, is God.

Hey, I'd like to warn you all about my Goddess, Eris. She is the god of discordia. She wants our world to be chaotic, but although there have been saint wars, brainwashing, torturing and killing in the name of other gods (which don't exist), and abusing of people, she thinks it's yet nto chaotic enough. I want you all to know that you are all wrong, and you will always be. So just beg Eris will have mercy on you, because she is almighty.

I want you to know that, no matter what you believe, you are all puppets of my Goddess, Eris.

And don't forget the 10% to the church managers.

The following was recieved in PM from OP because of my reply above:

Originally Posted by spiritofthewolf

I read your reply...What gives you the right to ridicule me? If your so sure the Bible is fake and Jesus is nothing more then Human, then please, be my guest and prove the Bible wrong..because everyone who has tried, has failed....There is too much evidence supporting the bible and everything that is in it.. Dont believe me? Read a book that is called "Case For Christ" its by Lee Strobell

He was an atheist set out to PROVE that the Bible was false but with in his journey, became a believer himself...

Now let me ask you a question...You say the bible is fake right?

Would you give up everything you had, and even let people kill you for a lie? I think not.. I know I wouldnt..Im sure you wouldnt either.

Why would Judas give up Jesus Christ for 30 pieces of silver, then later toss it back, and then hang himself if Jesus was a lie? Why would Peter not only give up everything he had in life to follow Jesus, but in the end be cruxcified UPSIDE DOWN--which is far worse then being upright---if Jesus was a lie?

Please answer that one question if anything you get out of this post...

thank you for your time

DJ

And my response:

Originally Posted by Stephent91

Yeah, I read your little bit about the Bible.

The same right that gives you the right to post this big long post denouncing all forms of religion and spirituality aside from your own. Most logically thinking people would think that your post calls for more of an alert than my reply. I think that if you would read my reply nonbiased, you wouldn't find much ridicule, and if I did more than I should have, I'm sorry. I did intend to do some of it though.

So, please prove to me that the Bible is right and that Jesus was the son of God. I can't prove with 100% certainty the contrary, but you can't prove at all that it is. That is why it is called faith my dear friend, and not science.

How would you get to it not being a lie? People fight and kill and are killed for what they believe in. Not in what they find factual. If people fought over facts and truths, then this world would be in more chaos than it is. I can go to a dictionary or a thesaurus for my facts. And tha will always stop a fight over facts. If you want to ask me whether I'd die or be killed over my beliefs, than go ahead. The answer would be yes, just like yours would be. I consider yours a lie though. That brings me back to the facts. Faith is opinion. Even if you portray it as fact and believe it as fact.

Where did you get the "Judas betrayed Jesus for 30 silver"? I'm sure that it was from one of the 4 gospels in the New Testament. Which doesn't disprove my argument at all. People are still biased even if you change their wording.

The reason Peter gave everything up and got crucified upside down. (Which is dead either way.) Would go right back to faith. He believed in Jesus and his teachings enough to give all of that up. That doesn't make it fact. It makes it dedication to faith.

This is my answer. I hope you like it, or at least understand where I am coming from. If anything, don't come back with such aggressive confidence. Confidence is great. It builds your faith. Aggression torwards other's beliefs only demolishes your own beliefs. Learn to coexist and love instead of want to create a super race and hate the inferior.

Peace brother.

P.S. I will be posting everything that is PMed in the thread because I want people to get the whole stories of arguments, both your side and mine. So that they aren't left with the first steps. So can reply to me either through PMs or through the thread.

Enjoy.