Thread: Metal associated with bad things?

In the 70's, there was a rumor that Kiss was a Satan worshipping band and that the name stands for Knights In Satan's Service. It was a total crock, but it got Kiss a lot of extra attention, especially when holy roller groups started protesting their concerts. That phenomenon clued in a lot of heavy metal musicians to the fact that if people think they worship Satan, they will get a lot of extra publicity. So then came Venom, Slayer, and a long list of 80's heavy metal bands that had a satanic image. Because of that, a lot of Christians got the impression that heavy metal in general is satanic music. That perception led to what I think is the most hilarious gimmick in the history of the world.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=WtCPPyfGqU8&feature=related

But don't the satanic cults who sacrifice babies in the woods listen to metal music?

Originally Posted by Taosaur

But don't the satanic cults who sacrifice babies in the woods listen to metal music?

I don't know of any satanic sacrifices of babies in particular, but I do know that a lot of devil worshippers listen to satanic forms of heavy metal. There are a lot of heavy metal bands that very deliberately present themselves as satanic, and they do get fanship from Satan worshippers because of it. However, those bands are full of bullshit. Slayer finally admitted that their satanic image has been a gimmick the whole time, and I know they are far from alone. Controversy sells. It's all about marketing.

Originally Posted by skuruza

i do not know where, but in Christianity, do you go to hell or are sinning if you listen to metal music?

I think this question shouldn't be phrased in such general terms... Metal music that mentions satan, sure, but metal music in general... ? Don't christians follow the teachings of christ? I doubt he said anything about metal music.

there is a relationship between music and anything spiritual

no one can meditate while listening to metal music - not unless through the meditation they can silence the music. music is sound, sound is vibration, some vibrations relate to a higher state of being. others to a lower state.

classical music relates to a higher state of being. it is healthy for the mind and body. other forms of music do just the opposite, they are not healthy for the mind or body - therefore it is sinful to listen to it. in christianity sin doesn't mean evil, just means it is taking you away from God. note: that it isn't so much the lyrics as it is the actual beats of the music. this then makes a happy circle and also relates to the actual 'sound' of our body.

a person has to be in a some what meditative state of mind to connect to God. you can not do that through certain forms of music.

its just not christianity. other spiritual groups advice to stay away from any music that 'shakes' your chakras in harmful ways. this is coming from various people who meditate, who note how music affects their chakras. this isn't coming from a book, or a religion. but practicing people who feel a need to tell others who want to higher their chakras, not lower them. "listen to this music, not this kind" and so on. this again, also relates to the 'sound' of the universe.

it became obvious that it isn't right to say that musicians are being controlled by the devil in their music, especially when the rock music were romantic love songs. so the idea that rock music is evil, has died down in the christian scene, since obviously, we have 'christian rock'. im assuming, the very same beats that lower the chakras are still in this music. and im also assuming that those very same chakra lowering beats have also entered churches, where they felt the need to attract a younger audience

Gregorian chants sound a certain way for reason, similar to buddhist monks.

Mes Tarrant, are you sure? I can vaguely remember...

John 7:15
Thou shalt not work thy face off by the awesome sounds of metal, nor thy head shalt bang in concerts of incredible wicked nature.

Originally Posted by Mes Tarrant

I think this question shouldn't be phrased in such general terms... Metal music that mentions satan, sure, but metal music in general... ? Don't christians follow the teachings of christ? I doubt he said anything about metal music.

what kind of logic is that?

if you're going to use the bible, use it right. metal music didn't exist 2000 years ago.

Originally Posted by juroara

there is a relationship between music and anything spiritual

no one can meditate while listening to metal music - not unless through the meditation they can silence the music. music is sound, sound is vibration, some vibrations relate to a higher state of being. others to a lower state.

classical music relates to a higher state of being. it is healthy for the mind and body. other forms of music do just the opposite, they are not healthy for the mind or body - therefore it is sinful to listen to it. in christianity sin doesn't mean evil, just means it is taking you away from God. note: that it isn't so much the lyrics as it is the actual beats of the music. this then makes a happy circle and also relates to the actual 'sound' of our body.

a person has to be in a some what meditative state of mind to connect to God. you can not do that through certain forms of music.

its just not christianity. other spiritual groups advice to stay away from any music that 'shakes' your chakras in harmful ways. this is coming from various people who meditate, who note how music affects their chakras. this isn't coming from a book, or a religion. but practicing people who feel a need to tell others who want to higher their chakras, not lower them. "listen to this music, not this kind" and so on. this again, also relates to the 'sound' of the universe.

it became obvious that it isn't right to say that musicians are being controlled by the devil in their music, especially when the rock music were romantic love songs. so the idea that rock music is evil, has died down in the christian scene, since obviously, we have 'christian rock'. im assuming, the very same beats that lower the chakras are still in this music. and im also assuming that those very same chakra lowering beats have also entered churches, where they felt the need to attract a younger audience

Gregorian chants sound a certain way for reason, similar to buddhist monks.

Actually, your whole post is a hilarious generalization. I can produce one counterpoint to your whole example.... my brother. Whenever I would go off to school in the morning at 7:15 AM, he would turn on slayer, godsmack, system of the down, or metallic or the like at full blast. I would like, die. But that relaxes him and he just sits there enjoying it. As he describes it "I like metal because it is all the sounds at once, and I can pick apart the music and I love the complexity." For him listening to metal music is an introspective, reflective... religious? experience. So basically, you're wrong By the way I stopped reading your post midway in because I found it rather hilarious, so I am sorry if I missed something.

Originally Posted by juroara

what kind of logic is that?

if you're going to use the bible, use it right. metal music didn't exist 2000 years ago.

That's precisely what my post was saying...

If you're gonna read my post, read it right.

Originally Posted by juroara

what kind of logic is that?

if you're going to use the bible, use it right. metal music didn't exist 2000 years ago.

Did God/Jesus not know that it was going to exist later?

Also, where do you get that metal lowers chakras or that chakras even exist? Good quality heavy metal makes me feel really good. It can be a major rush. It is very high energy and beautiful. I also want to point out to you that some of the best heavy metal bands were influenced big time by classical music. Iron Maiden's music is basically classical music with heavy metal instruments and a singer.

Originally Posted by juroara

it became obvious that it isn't right to say that musicians are being controlled by the devil in their music, especially when the rock music were romantic love songs. so the idea that rock music is evil, has died down in the christian scene, since obviously, we have 'christian rock'. im assuming, the very same beats that lower the chakras are still in this music. and im also assuming that those very same chakra lowering beats have also entered churches, where they felt the need to attract a younger audience

I felt like reading more of your post, and well, I found this hilarious as well. Probably because of your incredible ignorance of metal music and music in general. Let's see...
A) Metal has love songs
B) The metal genre has christian artists. Not just that, but the actual songs are very very heavily influenced by Christianity. Flyleaf, anyone? There are a ton.
C) Um, the same beats? If you really want me to, I can find similar chord and scale patterns, meters, etc. that are present in both Christian songs and metal music.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Also, where do you get that metal lowers chakras or that chakras even exist?

Um, it's called faith. Duh.

Juroara, this should really confuse you.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=IHibztWeRCg

I think the best way to debunk juroara's argument without opinions is to say that because Juroara says certain music is unholy, or whatever, that means certain chord combinations (or more fundamentally, certain patterns of sound waves) make it unholy. This also means that there is virtually no line between unholy and holy music, as all music possesses patterns of other music, as well as similar patterns of sound waves. Virtually all chord/note/scale patterns are used by all types of music. This means that either all music is holy, or all music is unholy. There really is no way that you can legitimately say "metal" music is unholy if you don't say what makes it unholy, as I can thus claim that christian music is as such because it possesses elements of metal.

Originally Posted by wasup

Actually, your whole post is a hilarious generalization. I can produce one counterpoint to your whole example.... my brother. Whenever I would go off to school in the morning at 7:15 AM, he would turn on slayer, godsmack, system of the down, or metallic or the like at full blast. I would like, die. But that relaxes him and he just sits there enjoying it. As he describes it "I like metal because it is all the sounds at once, and I can pick apart the music and I love the complexity." For him listening to metal music is an introspective, reflective... religious? experience. So basically, you're wrong By the way I stopped reading your post midway in because I found it rather hilarious, so I am sorry if I missed something.

yes you did miss something. dont be lazy and read it all.

we arent always aware of how we affect our chakras. most people have to meditate to be conscious of their chakras. are you conscious of which of your chakras right now is the most active? and why? I dont think so.

just because you feel pleasure, does not mean it is something 'good' for your chakra. your chakras are like your organs, they are NOT dependent on your likes and dislikes. they already have their own likes and dislikes in the same way our body likes protein more than sat. fat.

there have been different tests done on music and how music affects the body. one test suggests that 'rock music' can initially create a 'high'. on this 'high' the listener seems to get a burst of feel-good-energy. but after long exposure - that quickly drains into a hang-over-like-feelings.

essentially, rock-music can be like getting high. yes it feels good. that doesn't mean it is good for you.

other forms of music did just the opposite. they promoted good health, over a period of time. but did not necessarily present a 'high'.

'rock music' and even 'heavy metal' are all generic terms. I am talking about a specific type of vibration in music. I don't know if it is present in all of rock music, or even present outside of rock music. And I don't know what specific vibration it is.

this has NOTHING to do with appreciating a certain form of music, as your brother is doing. the idea behind this has NOTHING to do with ones taste or preference in music. the idea is, music affects our chakras - REGARDLESS of your preference, as food affects our body REGARDLESS of your taste. just because you get pleasure out of a tripple-chocolate-cake doesn't mean its good for you.

it doesn't matter whether or not you like something, or appreciate it on an artistic level. religious experience? that's nice, but I'm not talking about a religious experience.

the idea of listening to certain forms of music, and not listening to other forms of music is for a SPIRITUAL experience. the idea about a spiritual experience is to RAISE YOUR CONSCIOUSNESS. anything that LOWERS your chakras will also LOWER your consciousness.

im not lecturing anyone on what to listen to. listen to whatever you want to. but if you are concerned about RAISING YOUR CONSCIOUSNESS, then at some point you need to be concerned about your chakras, and whats good for it, in the same way you would be concerned about food and whats good for your body.

just because someone informs you of what is healthy food and what is not healthy food, does not make them wrong if you still enjoy or get a high off of another type of food. health is over-all and long term. not short term.

Originally Posted by wasup

I think the best way to debunk juroara's argument without opinions is to say that because Juroara says certain music is unholy, or whatever, that means certain chord combinations (or more fundamentally, certain patterns of sound waves) make it unholy. This also means that there is virtually no line between unholy and holy music, as all music possesses patterns of other music, as well as similar patterns of sound waves. Virtually all chord/note/scale patterns are used by all types of music. This means that either all music is holy, or all music is unholy. There really is no way that you can legitimately say "metal" music is unholy if you don't say what makes it unholy, as I can thus claim that christian music is as such because it possesses elements of metal.

I'm a visual artist, not a musician. neither am I a guru on chakras. rather I listen to people who know more about chakras than I do.

neither did I say that there was a distinctive line of 'holy and unholy' music. I have a feeling you didn't read all of my post either. As I already mentioned that the elements of metal were already in churches.

the world isn't black or white. no where in my post did I say it was.

guys, there are already TESTS done on music on the human body. music is NOT neutral. it affects us, PHYSICALLY. recognize this reality.

also recognize how generic the term 'metal' or 'rock' is. I said, and I remain in what I say that I am talking about a specific type of vibration that is NOT aligned with vibration of the human body. therefore if there is a 'rock' music, but its beats ARE aligned with the "sound" of the body, then I am not talking about said music.

Do you have any kind of medical backup for your claims about chakras? I know the basics of what they are supposed to be, but I did not exactly study them in any of my biology or psychology classes.

What I do know is that good quality heavy metal, like other forms of rock music, can create a very positive feel good mental state without harmful drugs, which science says is really good for people emotionally and, as a result of the emotional effects, physically. If your counter to that is stuff about chakras, I am curious to know where you are getting it.

I must inquire, juroara, what the hell? I am not sure who's side you're arguing for. You admit that certain "beats" aren't "aligned" with the human body (which fundamentally is nonsense and means nothing, but I will humor you), but you admit that these beats are present everywhere. Which again I say means that either all music or no music is unholy. If "proper" christian music has metal beats, and metal beats has christian beats... then either christian music and metal music are both sacrilegious, or neither. Furthermore, considering your entire argument is based on psuedoscience, it obviously lacks in credibility... but even if I humor that, it still fails on a logical basis (as said above).

I agree. In fact during the Mid 90's one particular rocker thrived on christians calling him the anti christ. Marilyn Manson. Now he's a washed up idiot. But back in the day he thrived off this idea.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Do you have any kind of medical backup for your claims about chakras? I know the basics of what they are supposed to be, but I did not exactly study them in any of my biology or psychology classes.

this is the religion and spirituality section. I need give you medical proof of chakras - as they are INVISIBLE as far the human eye is concerned

the belief in chakras, while deeply respected even by science, still remains largely a spiritual belief. therefore I look to spirituality when understanding chakras

my original reason for talking about the chakra system and music was to explain why christianity might have felt negativity towards certain kinds of music. going on the idea at least, that once apon a time christians were a little more spiritual than today and were more sensitive to their chakra system.

ps. swing and jazz were also called the devils music - so its not just rock that has had fingers pointed at

http://www.sanatansociety.org/chakra...he_chakras.htm

there is also the controversial test done on plants
http://www.av1611.org/neutral.html

part of the reason why the test was done on plants is because we are assuming plants don't have an emotional taste of music, therefore we can see what vibrations do to life forms

its also note worthy how the more buddhist approach to teaching music is saying "hey, this is music that is good for you! yay!" and the more christian approach is "this music is of satan! do not listen or hell!"

their approach to 'music is not neutral' is very polar opposite

Originally Posted by juroara

this is the religion and spirituality section. I need give you medical proof of chakras - as they are INVISIBLE as far the human eye is concerned

So are electrons, gravity, radio waves, photons, temperature, prehistoric climate, the big bang, radiation, and the fifth dimension, but there is excellent scientific support for all of them. How about chakras?

Originally Posted by juroara

this is the religion and spirituality section. I need give you medical proof of chakras - as they are INVISIBLE as far the human eye is concerned

I agree. As I said before, Universal Mind, this is the religion and spirituality section. People don't need to use "logic" or consider "legitimacy" or "credibility," especially not "evidence" when posting. Those things are the devil's work.

the belief in chakras, while deeply respected even by science, still remains largely a spiritual belief. therefore I look to spirituality when understanding chakras

LOL


By the way, thanks for not responding to my post at all...

Originally Posted by wasup

I must inquire, juroara, what the hell? I am not sure who's side you're arguing for. You admit that certain "beats" aren't "aligned" with the human body (which fundamentally is nonsense and means nothing, but I will humor you), but you admit that these beats are present everywhere. Which again I say means that either all music or no music is unholy. If "proper" christian music has metal beats, and metal beats has christian beats... then either christian music and metal music are both sacrilegious, or neither. Furthermore, considering your entire argument is based on psuedoscience, it obviously lacks in credibility... but even if I humor that, it still fails on a logical basis (as said above).

youre still thinking of me in terms of black and white. youre still thinking im supporting a type of music over an other. again, I am talking about VIBRATIONS - I am talking about SOUND. not a human genre of music.

I didn't say these particular vibrations were present everywhere. They are not present in nature for one. Nor are they present in every song or music.

my entire argument concerns matters of SPIRITUALITY. why should science be the primary concern? if you are paying attention, music matters if you want to keep your chakras healthy. and you keep your chakras healthy so you can meditate easier. and you meditate easier so you can attain a higher consciousness.

spirituality does not butt heads with science. science actually supports spiritual claims. in this case, the belief of chakras says that chakras affect your entire physical body. AND that sounds affect chakras. there are MANY studies done on music, look them up yourself - they all claim music affects the body one way or the other. all of these affects, support the belief of chakras.

here one and one is put together, old meets new. that is all I am saying, nothing more. you are trying to find some other objective in what I am saying, give it up.

Originally Posted by juroara

spirituality does not butt heads with science. science actually supports spiritual claims. in this case, the belief of chakras says that chakras affect your entire physical body. AND that sounds affect chakras. there are MANY studies done on music, look them up yourself - they all claim music affects the body one way or the other. all of these affects, support the belief of chakras.

So the scientific support for the existence of chakras is that music affects people's bodies? Do you have anything else? Is the fact that rain affects crops evidence of the existence of vegetation elves?