Thread: Alright Religion - You Win

Originally Posted by O'nus

Religions often think it best that the entire planet have the same beliefs system as them. Thus..

Thought experiment time:

Everyone on the planet has the same belief as you.

The planet is entirely suitable to every desire and variable of your belief system (eg. all jews are dead, all gays are dead, etc.).

Now what do you do?

~

That religion sucks.


(I did not realize their was a..... word minimum for posts.)
(Making a point that any religion that thinks everyone should have the same belief system sucks is warnable?)
Excuse me for not writing essays every time I post.

O'nus, if you would only get past the view of religious beliefs as a contest, you might actually find yourself developing religious/spiritual beliefs of your own.

I personally am a Catholic. I admit that I am not a very church-going person, however, I truly believe that there is a God, I support most of the Bible, and do my best to live as good a life as possible. I do, therefore, support most of Catholicism, however, I believe a good bit of (Leviticus?) is out of date. I see no problem with homosexuality, although I myself am straight, I quite regularly eat so-described "unclean" animals, and I despise the Fundamentalist Christian group in Britain Christian voice. I also believe that whilst I am a Catholic, I believe that if you are a genuinely good person, you will be allowed entry into heaven.
I guess you could say I'm just a tolerant Christian.

My mother always said that if you have nothing nice to say than do not say anything at all.
My head hurts! /This thread

It has nothing to do with nice. It has to do with opening your eyes and getting your blind ignorant ass out of the way so a more educated culture can proceed!

Religion I once thought of as a good crutch for society although I did not follow any particular religion.
Now I have come to believe humans have derived religions for the most part for selfish reasons and their inadequacies. Conscience and eternal life and lack of understanding.
Furthermore it inundates society with ignorant people that others have to eventually deal with in one form or another.

vented

Originally Posted by hellohihello

Can't I eat all the food I want, sitting by the pool D: You can also have sex in heaven..... or so I was told but I have no proof of that because no one has been to heaven and back.

Yeah, I wouldn't get my hopes up for sex. All the bible really mentions about heaven (activity wise) is 24/7 worship of God, and sex might distract you from that. So yeah, I wouldn't get my hopes up for anything other then constant worship and golden streets.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

O'nus, if you would only get past the view of religious beliefs as a contest, you might actually find yourself developing religious/spiritual beliefs of your own.

Is not developing them bad though? You phrase that as if it's hindering his life.

Originally Posted by Apopholis

I guess you could say I'm just a tolerant Christian.

I'd say inconsistent.

Originally Posted by Serkat

I'd say inconsistent

call me what you will.
I will tolerate your comments

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

O'nus, if you would only get past the view of religious beliefs as a contest, you might actually find yourself developing religious/spiritual beliefs of your own.

Hm? A contest? I do not view it as a contest at all. You're taking my thread title out of context. I am merely asking what you would do if the whole word had the same population as you. I'm not ranting about "winning" or "losing", lol. Come on now, look more into my contextual offerings.

~

Originally Posted by O'nus

Hm? A contest? I do not view it as a contest at all. You're taking my thread title out of context. I am merely asking what you would do if the whole word had the same population as you. I'm not ranting about "winning" or "losing", lol. Come on now, look more into my contextual offerings.

~

I'd Imagine, since it seems to be humanities way, that if religious conflict was settled by one religion coming out on top with 100% believe then either sects would form in that religion or conflict would be more focused on resources and political ideas. However I personally think there will never be a religion with 100% of the population believing it, their would always be pockets of resistance.

If however one religion did reign supreme and sects were not formed I would assume the world would be more likely to come together and focus to improving society by science(assuming the religion allows for it, which it may not fully) and settling any bitterness between nations.

However an unlikely alternative cause might be a large amount of apathy. If every single human believes in heaven, they all agree there is a paradise after death, they might decide their is no point working in this life. I doubt it would happen as it's not like religious people do nothing with their lives but if everyone believed in an afterlife it's a possibility.

In the defense of O'nus (not that he needs my help lol)... I never took this thread to be a challenge. I thought it was an excellent way to learn about the beliefs of others, not shoot them down or resort to name calling.

Not all religious people are bigots. That is an oxymoron. God is love and accepts all people regardless of race, nationality or background. Of course, we need to prune ourselves of undesirable qualities in order to properly grow the fruitage of the spirit and be desirable to God for him to even WANT us to be part of his New World. But that applies equally to everyone. Even long time Christians can become effected by the negative attitude and qualities that the world as a whole often-times presents. It takes constant work and diligence (which is why I'm NOT part of my congregation right now- I let the anxieties of life come between me and God).

Christians shouldn't be button-holed with the failures of the past or with unpleasant personal experiences. True Christians follow the footsteps of Christ. They are outspoken when they see blatant wrong-doing going on by people who know better... but they are soft spoken, gentle, encouraging and patient to those who don't. But Christians are still imperfect people, doing the best they can and they make mistakes from time to time just like everyone else. But their predominant quality is love. If if's not, then they're not really a Christian.

It's like someone who is robbed by someone of another race and then hating EVERYONE of that race. It's not logical and it's not fair.

/end rant

I definitely understand that logic and emotion don't always agree. It's just sad when people can't even have a pleasant and inspiring conversation without someone acting out of emotion and not seeing the joy that's being shared.

I don't agree with all of the views expressed, but I respect them and I'm happy they're sharing something so personal to them.

Originally Posted by Zhaylin

Many homosexuals have stopped living that life-style and instead choose abstinence and become JW's.

Awesome. So you believe that homosexuality is a choice? The concept of abstinence is ridiculous and self-harming enough, but for gays to repress who they are because they think they can "get better" is ludicrous. I feel sorry for those who got duped by Jehovah's Witnesses.

Same goes with murderers, rapists, drug abusers etc. The Bible can transform lives and everyone is acceptable to God as long as they meet his requirements.

Oh, so now you put gays in the same category as murderers, rapists and drug abusers. Wow. That just goes to show how tolerant your beliefs are.

I didn't place it in that category- God did via the Bible 1 Corinthians 6:9-11:
"What! Do YOU not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men, 10 nor thieves, nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers [often associated with such is violence and aggression but I apologize that I misused the words I used] , nor extortioners will inherit God’s kingdom. 11 And yet that is what some of YOU were. But YOU have been washed clean, but YOU have been sanctified, but YOU have been declared righteous in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God."

The point is not for PEOPLE to pass judgement (especially against those who don't know). It's to teach them that EVERYONE has a CHOICE and what God expects from us.
Are you trying to imply that a lack of sex can kill people? There are lots of "straight" people who never have sex for one reason or another or remain single and sexless for personal or religious reasons. Are all of them unhappy, unhealthy and miserable?
So, please don't jump to conclusions about how I feel. I, myself, am bi. I'm actually more lesbian than heterosexual but I made a choice.
I don't think being gay is as bad as killing someone or stealing from them or worshiping false gods. If you notice it's the ACTION that is disapproved of by God.

Anyhow, I'm bowing out of the conversation now because I don't EVER want to come across as harsh, unreasonable, or intolerable. I'm sorry I did and I don't want to pull this thread away from it's original purpose.

DeeryTheDeer,

I think Zhaylin is simply saying that they are not choosing to be gay, but just to not act on it.

Why it is felt that acting on it is wrong may be up for debate but that is not what this thread is about.

But on a spin, what if everyone on the planet had the same view towards sexuality? Does this prevent the hereditary changes that cause homosexual behaviour? Of course not, so, what happens in the world of "your beliefs"? This is my question.

~

Originally Posted by O'nus

Hm? A contest? I do not view it as a contest at all. You're taking my thread title out of context. I am merely asking what you would do if the whole word had the same population as you.

This topic is based on a hypothetical question; it is already out of context to begin with.

What's the point of this thread; what are you implying?

Originally Posted by Zhaylin

Anyhow, I'm bowing out of the conversation now because I don't EVER want to come across as harsh, unreasonable, or intolerable. I'm sorry I did and I don't want to pull this thread away from it's original purpose.

I didn't mean to personally attack you, and I'm sorry if it came across that way. I'm just tired and angry at what religion tells people to think, say and do. That passage is something I personally have a big problem with. It seems to have a very harsh, condemning tone, and while I don't have a problem with the bible condemning people who are greedy or murder or lie, because those things are obviously hurtful and destructive, I do have a problem with the bible condemning sex, masturbation and homosexuality. I really can't see what is so wrong with those things.

Sure, people don't have to pass judgement, but they do all the time when it says so in the bible. I've seen a lot of people spew hate against gays, and then when asked about it, hide behind the feeble excuse, "I didn't say it, the bible says it". Well, the bible is wrong and is causing you to hate and discriminate against others without reason or evidence whatsoever. It doesn't even state what is wrong with men sleeping with men, it just says 'no men sleeping with men'. I don't buy following rules without reason, for fear of not going to heaven. That's the most manipulative form of control there is.

Sure people who never have sex don't die, but it's not healthy either. Studies have shown that men who regularly masturbate decrease their risk of prostate cancer, as opposed to those who don't. We live in a sexually repressed society that makes us feel guilty for having natural, sexual thoughts and actions, and so that repression comes out in unhealthy ways, like rape, pedophilia, adultery and the constant sexualization of almost everything we perceive, and of course the media is a blown up emphasis of our problem (we censor all the "bad" stuff even while it's implied and shown way too much). We also have very high rates of depression and other illnesses.

So I think my point is, the bible is definitely not going to lead me to a more fulfilling life, and the reason I care why others believe it is because they're causing others (like gays) undue suffering, whether they think they're giving them a free choice or not, as well as themselves for being repressed and controlled by mysterious and mostly illogical rules, and fear.

Originally Posted by O'nus

DeeryTheDeer,But on a spin, what if everyone on the planet had the same view towards sexuality? Does this prevent the hereditary changes that cause homosexual behaviour? Of course not, so, what happens in the world of "your beliefs"? This is my question.

~

Well, I'm not sure how to completely answer that, but this YouTube video seems in line with what I would like to say:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T27kB4BjbEg

In short, if no one believed in the bible or other beliefs without evidence to back it up (I'm going to avoid the word 'atheist' for the sake of removing common misconceptions), and did what they thought was right because they thought it for themselves, with their own brain and free will, the world certainly would be nowhere near as screwed up as it is today. I believe in the power of us human beings if we apply ourselves right, not in a personal God, or unfounded, archaic rules.

I think that if everyone belonged to the same religion and had the same level of faith and zealousness (is that a word?)--which seems unlikely--one of three things would happen:

1. The extreme centralization of power would eventually lead to the humanities downfall, because a world religion implies unbridled influence (left unchecked for an undefined amount of time would become highly unpredictable).

2. The world would become extremely boring and redundant for...who knows how long.

3. Someone would eventually rebel against it, in a pursuit of similar power and influence. (In my mind, the most likely result.)



But who knows. Kind of a scary thought.

Thankyou Deery and I'm sorry for being so snipey. I was up playing video games all night and all day and missed sleep and it's made me a little cranky and sensitive.

You're welcome, and it's okay, I think we're both out of whack lately (I've got a bad cold).

Hope you feel better quickly!!

Originally Posted by O'nus

Everyone on the planet has the same belief system as you..

Now what?
~

If everyone had the same belief system as I did... The first item on the agenda would be to discover the best possible technologies that could coexist in harmony with the rest of the planet. Petroleum for use as fuel is outlawed. New propulsion and energy generation becomes the immediate focus for researchers in the appropriate fields around the world. Dams are torn down. All of them. There'd be financial incentives for companies willing to open up who's purpose would be to recycle the wide range of materials that would normally go into landfills.

The list goes on. There'd be more outdoor-active people, that's for certain. Everyone would likely connect on a different personal level. You're familiar with that connection when you meet someone with similar life-philosophies, don't you? It would be much easier to coordinate with everyone else if we shared similar/identical goals. The real goal though, in the long run, is for personal growth. The peaceful orientation is to prevent one's own growth from stemming from the harm of something else. Does that make sense?

Originally Posted by O'nus

Hm? A contest? I do not view it as a contest at all. You're taking my thread title out of context. I am merely asking what you would do if the whole word had the same population as you. I'm not ranting about "winning" or "losing", lol. Come on now, look more into my contextual offerings.

~

What I'm saying is, although the goal of the popular religions is usually to convert as many of the rest of us as possible, that is not the goal of religion in general. Some religions have the goal of gaining personal understanding independent of what others believe. Others have the goal of reconsiling ones own personal understanding with what other's believe while still recognizing those other's beliefs as valid.

All I'm saying is that your threads typically bring a shallow understanding to religion and theology as a whole by focusing only on a pop culture view of what it means to be religious. If this is your intent; to address pop culture, then thats fine, but it doesn't really lead to any personal growth or understanding.

Originally Posted by O'nus

Alright.. that's enough religion.. you win.

The whole world now agree's with your religion..

Everyone on the planet has the same belief system as you..

Now what?

~

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

and

Sounds like a nice story of dystopia, this thread.

I can't imagine the world as a whole. I am all too focused on the children born into this stagnant new world, who have different ideas, and are most cruelly silenced (whether it be through brainwashing, or newthought genocide).

If everyone was the same religion, the competition would not be between religions, but instead, between adherence to religion. Our unified religion would split into fundamentalist and lenient groups. . . No, that wouldn't happen. If everyone was the same religion, and that is all they've known, then I stand by my thought at the beginning: any person with a new thought would perish in some form.

As a product of this, science would come to a standstill.

If everyone had my religion.
I don't have a religion.
Unless everyone was atheist, I don't think people would accept the idea of "no God."
But then, that would be much like the situation with all religion. People would fear and cast out pseudoscience and spirituality. Not saying that's what I do, but the thread topic is "What if everyone had the same religion?" and not "What if everyone had the same thought process?" (the latter is, by far, the worst scenario).

If everyone respected the teachings of the Buddha, particularly the transience of form and the utility of compassion, while admitting a degree of Universalism and therefor taking any particular path that suits them and allowing others the same latitude?

I imagine we'd be doing much the same things we're doing now, but happier, and better.