Thread: Tell me about Chaos Magick

I'd use my jizz to glue the sigil to her back lol. Maybe fall asleep looking at it

By the way, I wasn't being serious with that thou art god stuff, I meant it metaphorically. It's an equivalent phrase to my usename from the same source, the book Stranger in a Strange Land.

Originally Posted by HaRd_WiReD

Yes. I wank it to a sigil. That's "charging" the sigil. It works. The whole point is to get into the "Gnosis" state. Some people do this with psychedelics, some meditate. You can even do it when you are in a state of great pain.

Using pain is an interesting way to do it. I never would have thought of on my own. Seems so obvious now, being the opposite of orgasm.

You just expanded my understanding of magic!

Originally Posted by HaRd_WiReD

It works as long as a strong emotion occurs, because when you exhibit a strong emotion, it vibrates you closer to the spirit world. The real you.

The way I understand it is that strong emotions forge more powerful connections in archetypes. This is obvious in the way emotional situations are the ones that are most likely to show up in your dreams. Of all the possibilities or archetypal paths available, the ones charged with strong emotions are the most likely to manifest.

This is the reason magic sigils can overpower reality, because of it's underlying emotional strength.

Originally Posted by HaRd_WiReD

I WOULD look at a sigil when I climax with a female during sex, but I'm not sure how that would look me fucking my girl and me staring at a piece of paper. Maybe I could just tape the sigil to her back, LOL

Just picture it in your mind. It will have more power if you are able to picture it clearly. Although if you could convince her to get it tattooed on the small of her back, I will concede that you are a master sorceror. Would a tattoo like that have the same influence on her next boyfriend?

I really like the "cleaning the house" thing. I've done something like that once when I was just confused and heartbroken about someone. My place happened to be a mess, and I cleaned it up, with the intent of cleaning up the clutter in my mind. The cleaner it got, the clearer I got. But I didn't draw that idea from basic Chaos - that one came from one of the "Garden Meditation" exercise (where you picture a garden and you remove weeds, etc. and use it as a metaphor for whatever is bugging your mind), from Serge Kahili King's "Mastering your Hidden Self".

Originally Posted by Replicon

But I didn't draw that idea from basic Chaos - that one came from one of the "Garden Meditation" exercise (where you picture a garden and you remove weeds, etc. and use it as a metaphor for whatever is bugging your mind), from Serge Kahili King's "Mastering your Hidden Self".

Neither did I. Years ago, when I first stumbled across the work Kabbalah, I did a search and the first thing I came across was an article about people turning one room of their house into a shrine. Every object in the room was placed with care representing aspects of their lives. Then by rearranging the stuff in the room they could affect change in their lives.

Just something I stumbled across a long time ago that stuck with me.

Originally Posted by Replicon

"Garden Meditation" exercise (where you picture a garden and you remove weeds, etc. and use it as a metaphor for whatever is bugging your mind), from Serge Kahili King's "Mastering your Hidden Self".

This is going to sound strange, but this really works. Visualization, I mean. Because this one night, I was smoking weed with friends, I came home HIGH as GAS. I was panicking and paranoid as shit for some reason. So I'm laying in bed, ready to have a damn near panic attack, that shit was scary as hell. So i visualize myself releasing the negative energy, and sucking in positive energy..and kinda visualized red minus signs going OUT of me, and positive green signs coming IN to me. Next thing I know it worked, I was more relaxed and felt relieved.

This was like 1 or 2 years ago.

Originally Posted by The Cusp

The way I understand it is that strong emotions forge more powerful connections in archetypes. This is obvious in the way emotional situations are the ones that are most likely to show up in your dreams. Of all the possibilities or archetypal paths available, the ones charged with strong emotions are the most likely to manifest.

This is the reason magic sigils can overpower reality, because of it's underlying emotional strength.

What is the difference between emotions an archetypes?

Originally Posted by The Cusp

First of all, I have nothing against trees. It's the trees that don't like me.

Yes I can do magic, but I hardly use it for tricks. Mostly for getting girls, jobs, and money. You know, practical stuff. I don't practice highly ritualized magic, although I am familiar with how it works.

Not saying I'm good at it. Most of the time I don't even remember that i can do it, much like being lucid.

Interesting
Have you ever met someone who was dreaming you too?
Someone who was lucid? Or are they all dream characters.

Trees like me.

Originally Posted by The Cusp

Neither did I. Years ago, when I first stumbled across the work Kabbalah, I did a search and the first thing I came across was an article about people turning one room of their house into a shrine. Every object in the room was placed with care representing aspects of their lives. Then by rearranging the stuff in the room they could affect change in their lives.

Just something I stumbled across a long time ago that stuck with me.

I have seen this done. I was taught to do it in a non-physical room.
I noticed throughout this thread, people seem to be focusing on the physical, rooms, sigils ect...

Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

What is the difference between emotions an archetypes?

Archetypes are concepts and their sum total of associations. Emotions are the strength of those connections. I think of emotions as the equivalent to "weight" in artificial neural networks (look it up).

Originally Posted by Mea

Interesting
Have you ever met someone who was dreaming you too?
Someone who was lucid? Or are they all dream characters.

Trees like me.

Yes, I've had some shared dreaming adventures. Was only joking around about the tree thing. I think someone was referencing Castaneda's books about the trees.

Originally Posted by The Cusp

Archetypes are concepts and their sum total of associations. Emotions are the strength of those connections. I think of emotions as the equivalent to "weight" in artificial neural networks (look it up).

Isn't an emotion also an archetype? I mean everything is an archetype right, so emotions must be an archetype too. And if archetypes consist out of only emotions, than emotions are the finer elements that make up archetypes, so you could say there is nothing but emotions according to your archetype theory? I mean, what else does an archetype consist off but emotions?

Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

Isn't an emotion also an archetype?

I thought this too

Emotions have been an enigma for me right from the start. Look at the first post in my nature of dream control thread, I wasn't sure what they were, and I'm still not sure.

Take a normal archetype, like Dog, and you get real connections to stuff like Animal, fur, bark, growl, cat, and on and on. But take an emotion like Anger, and the only associations I can think of are things that piss me off. As an archetype, that doesn't define what anger is, it merely defines the situations that make me angry. If you didn't know what a dog was, you could figure it out by studying it's archetypal associations, but you couldn't do that by studying an emotional archetype. It doesn't define the emotion.

But there is no denying that emotions have an archetypal quality to them, because when using emotions for dream control it's obvious. Become angry, and DCs begin to argue and fight, change to happy and they all laugh and have a good time. Sadness, fear, every emotion is equally predictable.

But I'm equally sure emotional residue gets left behind and trapped within the archetypal links. Castaneda's recapitulation technique was designed to clear out that emotional residue. For instance, there are about three incidents in my life where I've done really stupid or embarrassing things that I can't think about without cringing. They're just soaked with emotion, and I can't think about them without being almost incapacitated by the emotional force.

Perhaps all emotions use the same "power source" and they only appear different because they are filtered through archetypes?

Writing this post helped me understand them a bit better, and that wouldn't have happened unless you guys focused my attention on the subject, because everything requires your attention to exist. Even though I say this site pisses me off from time to time, I need you guys to help me figure this stuff out, even if it's through something as simple as asking the right questions.

Archetypes are thoughtforms in the collective unconscious. They are like myths or stories. There are archetypal characters like The Hero, who goes on a quest and in the process has an epiphany to bring back and share for the benefit of his community. And there is of course the devil. He is an archetype that embodies the shadow of all that we think is good. There is the King, the Warrior, the magician and the lover. There is the priestess, the virgin, the old hag, the mother. Etc...

And emotions are the feelings that these archetypes release in us. Or the feelings that happen in day to day life.

So what is the difference betwen chaos magick and other magick? And tell me about how to construct sigils? I think it has something to do with magick squares, right?

You write down a statement of intent, cross out the vowels and repeating consonants and make a monogram..where you overlap the letters to make a picture.

Something like this:
http://home.wxs.nl/~voort359/monogram.jpg

It works because the subconscious does not recognize detail orientated things like letters and words, it only understands the WHOLE. The subconscious understands things that are holistic..like symbols, symbols are holistic.

The cusp brought up a good point about porn, the "money shot" and how it can turn you gay. It makes total sense actually.

After you have the monogram you get into a "gnostic state" like climax during sex, a psychedelic trip, or some kind of intense emotion or a moment your not thinking logically like meditation.

For example during sexual climax, you look at your monogram...because during that heightened state of awareness at climax, the symbol is burned into your subconscious.

After that you MUST forget about it, this is maybe the most important part..that's why meditate is a plus.

You must forget about it after "charging" the sigil because the conscious (logical) mind by default questions things and will literally "quell" your intention if you think about it or analyze it. You burn the symbol into your subconscious, and forget about it...the subconscious will do the rest of the work. You see belief is what makes this work.

Sigils are basically subconscious programs. Hacking the matrix. The McDonalds "M" sign you see everyday is a good example of a sigil.

Sigil magick can get more complicated, but this is the basic rundown of it.

Once you charge a sigil, should you charge it again later?
Should it be charged regularly?

Also, could I design it on the computer with a program like photoshop, and charge it while looking at it on the screen?

Originally Posted by Fableflame

Once you charge a sigil, should you charge it again later?
Should it be charged regularly?

Some magicians say once you charge the sigil...you should "banish" it, or destroy it, or set it on fire or some shit so you can forget it.

I don't though, i keep them, and if i want the desire bad enough I will charge it again and again..this seems more efficient to me.

The way I see it as long as you don't question the sigil, after you charge it it will work. Charging them over and over seems like a faster way for it to work.

THAT's why I make 3 or 4 different sigils, and charge them separately..that way I forget what the original intent/desire was. So my logical mind can't question it.

Also, could I design it on the computer with a program like photoshop, and charge it while looking at it on the screen?

Yes you could. I've seen a pretty good example of this.

This is a good one right here:

Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

So what is the difference betwen chaos magick and other magick?

I'm going to sound like a broken record, but differentiating magic into different categories will limit your understanding of it. I prefer to label it all under dream control, makes things much simpler.

Originally Posted by HaRd_WiReD

Charging them over and over seems like a faster way for it to work.

The way I see it, you're trying to create an archetype, which is a collection of associations, not just one. So "charging" it multiple times, each time forging an association to the time you charged it, you create a larger more powerful archetype.

Engineering archetypes in this was has the added benefit of creating rock solid, stable and reliable archetypes. Using stable archetypes is the key to reliable dream control.

When a lucid dreamer first starts to use the technique of vocalizing commands like "More light!", sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't because there isn't a stable archetype to support it. But each time the dreamer uses it successfully, that creates a new association to successful attempt. The more successful attempt he pulls off, the more reliable that techniques becomes.

But if a dreamer fails the first few times they try a new technique, then that creates an archetype of failure, and they are doomed to fail at that until they find another archetype to replace it.

This kind of sigil magic is nothing but archetype engineering, and the beauty is you can make super reliable ones without contaminating them with failure. This kind of sigil magic has huge potential for application to lucid dreaming. You can engineer you own super powers.

And of course a magic symbol doesn't actually have to by a sigil, it could be a word or phrase, or a mundane object that you turn sacred, or some kind of tai chi move or hand gesture.

I was reading today about a "spasmodic" approach to charging, where you just sit there, do some weird full-body spasm, and look at it just at the peak of the spasm. Has anyone tried that method? I mean, wanking is fun and all, but if there are faster and more effective ways to do it, ya can't just ignore them.

Originally Posted by Replicon

I was reading today about a "spasmodic" approach to charging, where you just sit there, do some weird full-body spasm, and look at it just at the peak of the spasm. Has anyone tried that method? I mean, wanking is fun and all, but if there are faster and more effective ways to do it, ya can't just ignore them.

Lots of things here.......

The basics of Chaos Magick is in the use of extreme mental states to charge sigils or create servitors etc.

Its not about a quick wank, however much fun........

All extremes are useful : Rage/Pain/Joy/Fear/Ecstacy........

The concept is that at these "extremes" the ego and super ego are "blasted away" - therefore your higher mind is silenced and you can get at your subconcious.

Lets take fear - one method to charge a sigil is to have a freind or trusted ritualist cut off your air supply. Once you are thrashing around in pure animal terror on the verge of losing conciousness/life then thats the time you are relased and you charge the sigil. This is of course somewhat extreme, dangerous and unpleasant. This is also why most prefer to work with sex.....

The whole point is to make the experience as powerful as possible - which is why I despair when I hear things like "a quick wank". There are tantric sex trance methods where the operator is kept at a just sub climax level for 6 or more hours before being allowed to cum. This needs several talented courtesans. The experience you are aiming for is "mindblowing". Finally being allowed to climax after multiple hours of subtle stimulation would indeed be "mind blowing" - therefore a quick wank just doesnt cut it. Its not about "quick" - "quick" is pointless and irrelevant.

The same principle applies to crafting the sigil. It should be a minor work of art. You should work on both simplifing it and embelishing it until it "oozes" your statement of intent and you know that it would just not be possible to make one any better. You would then charge it aiming for the most extreme and powerful release method possible.

Watch the film Crowley / Chemical Wedding - it shows a scene where Crowley is charging a sigil by wanking off while someone is whipping him with a walking stick.

You get out what you put in.

As one of the other posters pointed out - mental dicepline such as being able to meditate is essential. It takes a great deal of WORK to be able to suppress your ego and desires to the point that you can truly forget the whole operation and not give a toss about its outcome. Crowley said it very nicely :

"For true will, unassuaged by purpose, and delivered from the lust of result, is in every way perfect"

Chaos Magic is not about hurridley scribbling an amaturish statement of intent on some scrap of paper and then having a quick wank over it.

To the poster who asked if sigils can be reused : Most are created for specific purposes and so are only used once. An advance form is known as "the alphabet of desire". This is a system that is specifically created to be re-used. The idea is to create a number of sigils that represent things, people, times, outcomes, etc. These can then be grouped together to form a string or cartouche of sigils. For example one sigil would represent "This my will to". Another would be the outcome, say "Lucid Dream". Yet another would be "Tonight". Therefore together you have 3 sigils that represent your will to lucid dream tonight. The idea is that over time you build a pictogram language - or catologue of sigils that you can combine for any purpose.

The trouble with Chaos Magick is like I said before - people think its a short cut. To do it well requires a good deal of practice and dicepline. Someone who badly needs some quick cash and thinks they can get it by dropping their pants and wanking over a cartoon of a stickman holding a bag with a dollar sign on it is going to be disapointed.

The Spasm method is something I think FRater U.D. borrowed from A.O. Spare. The trouble is that Spare was a brilliant and total nutcase - and nobody is quite sure what he meant by his "death posture".

Originally Posted by The Cusp

The way I see it, you're trying to create an archetype, which is a collection of associations, not just one. So "charging" it multiple times, each time forging an association to the time you charged it, you create a larger more powerful archetype.

So what if you made a sigil, and charged it several times, each time with a different emotion?

Say anger once, then the next day joy etc.

Thanks for the detailed explanations, evildoctor. Don't worry, I never meant to imply a "quick" wank. I'm definitely thinking more along the lines of a good hour of building it up and staying near the threshold, etc.

Originally Posted by Fableflame

So what if you made a sigil, and charged it several times, each time with a different emotion?

Say anger once, then the next day joy etc.

You'd end up with a fragmented archetype leading to too many different locations to be reliable. The point of creating these is to have an archetype that only leads to one place.

Just scanned through all this ridiculous, stupid, witchcraft bullshit, - but I love it. I have had experiences with kundalini energy and mushrooms, and this resulted in a open mind.

What are the limits for sigil? Can a vision of christ be used as a sigil? Or the lotus flower for the buddhists? Is this a kind of autosuggestion with none-logical symbols?

Originally Posted by manbearpig

Can a vision of christ be used as a sigil?

Christ is a very good one. It's a well established archetype, very stable and reliable to use because there are few variations as to how it's perceived (except for the raptor riding variety). Stable archetypes are the key to reliability. Obviously you couldn't use the Christ archetype to try and do someone harm.

There was a Coast to Coast AM show dedicated to people who didn't believe in god at all, but when confronted with freaky situations, invoked the name of Jesus. The power of christ doesn't come from some dude in the sky, it comes from a stable archetype of safety and love and ultimate good. These non believers encountered stuff like aliens, demons or ghosts, shadow people. Whether real or not, in either case the reason it worked is because they changed their focus from a negative archetype to a positive one. A positive one that was much more stable than whatever ethereal fantasies they were facing.

Belief in god is irrelevant if you never turn your mind to spiritual matters. These kinds of symbols only serve as focal points for your attention.