Thread: my thoughts on religion, anyone agree?

Due to the nature of spacetime with respects to gravitational fields, I understand that the Big Bang is generally viewed as the beginning of time. So it's not really 'creation' of anything as such, because there was no prior time in which nothing had existed.

Originally Posted by Ne-yo

Really? and why not? Is it not at all possible that all forms of matter/energy space/time could be formed in the instant of the Big Bang?

im not saying that it isnt possible. i believe anything is possible, as i said in the OP.

but my point is here, the big bang theory is that there was tons and tons of matter all compressed into a really small space, then expanded. no matter was created. (im pretty sure anyways)

and my question isnt what is the beginning of what we would see as the universe. my question is, where did the matter come from in the first place before it expanded.

Take a look at Xei's post your answer is there, as I believe that is the best answer to your question.

However, I do see your point, but I view differently, I guess it just a bit inconcieveable to me that matter/energy can be viewed seperately from Space/time. In order to view it the way that you are viewing it, Space/time must be inifinte and infinitly compressed as well. If thats the case you'll never have an answer as there is no origin for infinity.

Also looking for where did the matter come from would stipulate something prior right? Think about it

i know, i understand everything you are all saying.

but matter and energy cannot be created or destroyed. even the matter before expansion.

so where did that matter come from.

besides that aswell, i heard that the big bang and the big crunch both happen a lot. (expanding and contacting the universe all the time)

which would mean that maybe there was a time before the big bang we are talking about.

Originally Posted by slash112

i know, i understand everything you are all saying.

but matter and energy cannot be created or destroyed. even the matter before expansion.

so where did that matter come from.

besides that aswell, i heard that the big bang and the big crunch both happen a lot. (expanding and contacting the universe all the time)

which would mean that maybe there was a time before the big bang we are talking about.

To be quite honest, I don't think that science will ever be able to explain the BB completely. The relative complexity of fields like quantum physics paint a picture of just how vastly complex the universe really is. I mean, some theory suggests that there could be twenty or more dimensions and I believe that we would need complete understanding of all of them to even know really 10% of all the physics behind the big bang. The only problem with this is that eventually mathematic equations become so long and complex that they become impractical in describing the situation...

It doesn't really work like that; each of the spacial dimensions are identical. It's a mathematical framework. I mean, we don't have to 'understand' our three spacial dimensions separately, do we? They don't even exist as separate entities.

Originally Posted by Xei

It doesn't really work like that; each of the spacial dimensions are identical. It's a mathematical framework. I mean, we don't have to 'understand' our three spacial dimensions separately, do we? They don't even exist as separate entities.

we already understand, as humans, the first three dimentions. it starts at the fourth where is gets to the point where it is hard to understand, if it is at all possible to understand them.

Nah not really, these things are only mathematical frameworks.

If you've ever seen what three dimensions looks like mathematically, it's actually no less intuitive than four, or any greater number of dimensions.

For example, this is the mathematical representation of a line in a 3D space:

r = (1,4,3) + (0, -1, 4)t

and this is a line in a 4D space:

r = (3, 2, -4, 6) + (6, 7, 8, -4)t

The second isn't really any harder to grasp mathematically than the first.

Originally Posted by Xei

Nah not really, these things are only mathematical frameworks.

If you've ever seen what three dimensions looks like mathematically, it's actually no less intuitive than four, or any greater number of dimensions.

For example, this is the mathematical representation of a line in a 3D space:

r = (1,4,3) + (0, -1, 4)t

and this is a line in a 4D space:

r = (3, 2, -4, 6) + (6, 7, 8, -4)t

The second isn't really any harder to grasp mathematically than the first.

I stand corrected and thank you for enlightening me... but although each dimension may not be harder to grasp mathematically than the one before it, what about the increase in number of dimensions interacting in a given scenario, surely that would be super complex and that is what we need to understand to understand the BB.

Originally Posted by Xei

Nah not really, these things are only mathematical frameworks.

If you've ever seen what three dimensions looks like mathematically, it's actually no less intuitive than four, or any greater number of dimensions.

For example, this is the mathematical representation of a line in a 3D space:

r = (1,4,3) + (0, -1, 4)t

and this is a line in a 4D space:

r = (3, 2, -4, 6) + (6, 7, 8, -4)t

The second isn't really any harder to grasp mathematically than the first.

Yes, it is understandable mathamatically of course. You just need to know that it has 4 axis

but can you picture in your head what things would be like in the 4th dimention? Maybe you can. But most people cannot

Originally Posted by slash112

Yes, it is understandable mathamatically of course. You just need to know that it has 4 axis

but can you picture in your head what things would be like in the 4th dimention? Maybe you can. But most people cannot

I can't. We're just not evolved to think in more than three dimensions. Don't worry about it and go with the math. Or think about it in three dimensional slices.

Originally Posted by PhilosopherStoned

I can't. We're just not evolved to think in more than three dimensions. Don't worry about it and go with the math. Or think about it in three dimensional slices.

No, I was just saying that to back something someone said about needing to understand the dimensions just to start understanding the way of the universe. Or something like that

Originally Posted by slash112

No, I was just saying that to back something someone said about needing to understand the dimensions just to start understanding the way of the universe. Or something like that

To understand the BB, and I didn't mean you had to picture it in your head, understanding how all the dimensions interact and what effects they cause matehmatically is enough to permit us to eventually understand the BB. Do we understand how all the dimensions interact and what affects they cause?

In relativity theory the answer is yes, very well. In quantum theories, one has to take a Newtonian view of time for it to work. So the two don't fit together.

All in all though, understanding dimensions is easy. They're just degrees of freedom except very convoluted cases. The problem is to understand the forces that act in spacetime. Getting a quantum theory of gravity is really key to understanding the BB IMO. There are a lot of paramaters that one has to plug into the calculations to get it to come out right ATM and that is clearly not a satisfactory state of affairs.