Thread: my thoughts on religion, anyone agree?

Yeah, I'd say I agree. Spiritually, from what I see we're evolving towards something. The fact that carbon based life could just arise out of what was originally nothing suggests that there's a force overseeing or maybe even facilitating our evolution. And when I say our I don't mean humanity, I mean everything. The entirety of the universe.

The thing I'm trying to find out is, why? What are we evolving towards? But then again, maybe its just a waste of precious time and energy thinking about it.

Though I'm very convinced that no holy text or religious authority has come close to explaining anything about the mystery of life.

Originally Posted by Speesh

Yeah, I'd say I agree. Spiritually, from what I see we're evolving towards something. The fact that carbon based life could just arise out of what was originally nothing suggests that there's a force overseeing or maybe even facilitating our evolution. And when I say our I don't mean humanity, I mean everything. The entirety of the universe.

The thing I'm trying to find out is, why? What are we evolving towards? But then again, maybe its just a waste of precious time and energy thinking about it.

Though I'm very convinced that no holy text or religious authority has come close to explaining anything about the mystery of life.

Well said. I believe if we are in fact evolving towards something, it's to a higher state of consciousness. Evolving toward that oneness again. Everything is one. A Universal mind.

I also don't believe in religions. I think people turn to religion out of fear, or when they need to have faith in something to get them by. When people believe in Jesus or God or buddha or whatever, their really believing in themselves. Having faith in themselves. Because we are God's. We're individualized god's that come from a universal mind with no ego. Just pure love.because love really connects us.

Originally Posted by Speesh

Yeah, I'd say I agree. Spiritually, from what I see we're evolving towards something. The fact that carbon based life could just arise out of what was originally nothing suggests that there's a force overseeing or maybe even facilitating our evolution. And when I say our I don't mean humanity, I mean everything. The entirety of the universe.

The thing I'm trying to find out is, why? What are we evolving towards? But then again, maybe its just a waste of precious time and energy thinking about it.

Though I'm very convinced that no holy text or religious authority has come close to explaining anything about the mystery of life.

no, then that means you dont agree with me actually.

i forgot to meantion, i dont believe there is a god controlling anything in the slightest way. what i meant was there must have been an energy and matter source which i suppose be called god if you want, because it is the beginning of the universe. but that is the only role i would say this "god" plays, just providing the energy and matter.

Speesh, why don't you take the view that the creation of the first life was just chemistry? Experiments show that the necessary organic compounds would form spontaneously in Earth's early atmosphere. There aren't really any gaps which would require a supernatural force.

The only thing I hold in an almost religious regard is consciousness, which science and philosophy have so far totally failed in explaining.

Originally Posted by Xei

The only thing I hold in an almost religious regard is consciousness, which science and philosophy have so far totally failed in explaining.

hmm, ive never even put great thought into conciousness (ironicly)
its like the only thing ive not thought about.

and now that i think about it, science doesnt have the answer for that one.

what do religions think about it?

Religions believe that consciousness is separate from matter, in general. It is a mystical thing that is simply glued to your body, and when your body dies your consciousness is not affected, but floats up to heaven. This is called 'dualism'. The problem is how the non material is supposed to interact with the material and vice versa.

Originally Posted by Xei

Religions believe that consciousness is separate from matter, in general. It is a mystical thing that is simply glued to your body, and when your body dies your consciousness is not affected, but floats up to heaven. This is called 'dualism'. The problem is how the non material is supposed to interact with the material and vice versa.

hmm, well i dont think i believe that. but its the only explanation ive heard, so unless i find some sort of scientific explanation, or i can make something up in my head that makes sense, i will feel quite uncomfortable for a while. (this happens with anything im very curious about)

Well, the other explanation is that consciousness is a material phenomenon caused by the neurons in your brain. There are still huge problems with this idea but they are less huge than dualism.

right...

i would have thought it was kinda like a simulation of feelings etc.

like there was a thread somewhere on this site about robots that got smart because of what is basically evolution. maybe our mind started out as a simple "program", i guess you could call it. we would just do what that "program" tells us to do. then over the generations, the programs would be sort of combined from one generation to the other, until we have a combination of many many "programs" which means we would now have a choice between thins.

i dont know if that came out the way it seemed in my head, but i know what im talking about, and for the time being, im happy with that. until a better one comes along.

Originally Posted by Xei

Speesh, why don't you take the view that the creation of the first life was just chemistry? Experiments show that the necessary organic compounds would form spontaneously in Earth's early atmosphere. There aren't really any gaps which would require a supernatural force.

The only thing I hold in an almost religious regard is consciousness, which science and philosophy have so far totally failed in explaining.

Oh I know its all chemistry, just seems to me like there's an energy of sorts throughout the universe helping move us all along. The fact that a few basic organic compounds inevitably turned into all that we have today seems rather unlikely. But even so, I'll be the first to say it can all be explained by science.

Originally Posted by HaRd_WiReD

Well said. I believe if we are in fact evolving towards something, it's to a higher state of consciousness. Evolving toward that oneness again. Everything is one. A Universal mind.

I also don't believe in religions. I think people turn to religion out of fear, or when they need to have faith in something to get them by. When people believe in Jesus or God or buddha or whatever, their really believing in themselves. Having faith in themselves. Because we are God's. We're individualized god's that come from a universal mind with no ego. Just pure love.because love really connects us.

Yeah that's what I originally thought, and its a pretty sweet idea. But sometimes it seems like consciousness gets us out of tune with the world, interacting with it through our conditioned biases and opinions rather than objective truth. Fuck, our brains should really come with a handbook or something.

I agree about religions too, people seem to need it because it provides security of mind and body. I think that's why people usually react with such hostility when their beliefs are challenged. These challenges really shake the foundations of their own security. We seem to be culturally afraid, if people could only shake off this fear we wouldn't have this ridiculous need for security.

Oh I know its all chemistry, just seems to me like there's an energy of sorts throughout the universe helping move us all along. The fact that a few basic organic compounds inevitably turned into all that we have today seems rather unlikely. But even so, I'll be the first to say it can all be explained by science.

Yes, I actually agree. The forces in the universe seem extremely fine tuned for life (actually I remember seeing some phenomally tiny number representing the range of a fundamental number required for any matter in the universe).

I personally believe that there are many multiverses with different fundamental forces, and in a tiny number of them complex systems spontaneously arise. Interestingly the existence of 10^500 different universes is predicted by string theory. The physicists tried to refine the theory to eliminate the 'superfluous' universes but, surprise surprise, they couldn't.

Oh I know its all chemistry, just seems to me like there's an energy of sorts throughout the universe helping move us all along. The fact that a few basic organic compounds inevitably turned into all that we have today seems rather unlikely. But even so, I'll be the first to say it can all be explained by science.

Yes, I actually agree. The forces in the universe seem extremely fine tuned for life (actually I remember seeing some phenomally tiny number representing the range of a fundamental number required for any matter in the universe).

I personally believe that there are many multiverses with different fundamental forces, and in a tiny number of them complex systems spontaneously arise. Interestingly the existence of 10^500 different universes is predicted by string theory. The physicists tried to refine the theory to eliminate the 'superfluous' universes but, surprise surprise, they couldn't.

The problem is that society has raised us in a black and white world. Giving us only a few
Options and blinding us from the rest. The way most people think is either you follow
A religion or you become an atheist. There are so many variables that most people don't
Consider. Religion is created for control and followed because of fear.

Originally Posted by Xei

I personally believe that there are many multiverses with different fundamental forces, and in a tiny number of them complex systems spontaneously arise. Interestingly the existence of 10^500 different universes is predicted by string theory. The physicists tried to refine the theory to eliminate the 'superfluous' universes but, surprise surprise, they couldn't.

I believe in multiverses also. Or a never ending single universe. But, how did they get these numbers?

As for the subject of religion, I don't believe in any one religion. I believe in different aspects of different beliefs, but I have no real belief in a god. I believe there is a possibility of an omnipotent god/gods out there, but I lean more towards the side that there isn't one.

The main thing I would love to figure out, is how the first thing ever came to existence, and what it was.

Originally Posted by Conscious Intervention

The problem is that society has raised us in a black and white world. Giving us only a few
Options and blinding us from the rest. The way most people think is either you follow
A religion or you become an atheist. There are so many variables that most people don't
Consider. Religion is created for control and followed because of fear.

Also, without a society to live in, you would have no more knowledge of the world than an ancient caveman. It's up to the individual to believe what they want etc.

Originally Posted by Speesh

Oh I know its all chemistry, just seems to me like there's an energy of sorts throughout the universe helping move us all along. The fact that a few basic organic compounds inevitably turned into all that we have today seems rather unlikely. But even so, I'll be the first to say it can all be explained by science.

just remember that the universe is massive. and since the universe is that big, there is a very small chance of the right combinations of everything to make life.

but say the universe is 1,000,000 miles big (obviously it is A LOT bigger than that, but im using small numbers to make the example easier) and that the chances of life occuring were 1 in a million, then that means that the chances are that life exists.

now scale that up to what it really is, it would be like 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00 miles big, probably bigger actually. and if the chances of life is 1 in a trillion. there is definetally going to be the right combination of stuff somewhere in the universe, it doesnt matter where, but there is a very high chance of it happening. there doesnt need to be anything helping it along when the chances of it happening are so high.

Eh you've got as much of a chance of being right as I do, but I figure even 1 in a trillion is being generous with the odds. Hehe I'm comfortable with either belief system really. Either way I'll end up in the same place.

Originally Posted by Speesh

Eh you've got as much of a chance of being right as I do, but I figure even 1 in a trillion is being generous with the odds. Hehe I'm comfortable with either belief system really. Either way I'll end up in the same place.

weill, i was obviously using that as an example. but i heard about this formula thing which carl sagan talks about and it actually shows the odds of life existing if it was all down to mathamatical chance, and not god.

and im not entirely sure, but i think i heard the answer was like 5 different places like us in the visible universe. or something like that

Originally Posted by Michael

The main thing I would love to figure out, is how the first thing ever came to existence, and what it was.

It's called a "Prime Mover" Read Aristotle which speaks of a series of events that moves because of a series of events that causes everything to move. If you go back far enough you will ultimately arrive at a single event or entity which moves but itself is "unmoved."

Originally Posted by Michael

The main thing I would love to figure out, is how the first thing ever came to existence, and what it was.

actually, that is partly the reason why i created this thread, because i too would love to know.

Originally Posted by Ne-yo

It's called a "Prime Mover" Read Aristotle which speaks of a series of events that moves because of a series of events that causes everything to move. If you go back far enough you will ultimately arrive at a single event or entity which moves but itself is "unmoved."

didnt make any sense to me

but its just that i dont understand how energy and matter came to be. how can it have started unless it has always been there for infinite time. but that is something maybe harder to think about.

Originally Posted by slash112

actually, that is partly the reason why i created this thread, because i too would love to know.



didnt make any sense to me

but its just that i dont understand how energy and matter came to be. how can it have started unless it has always been there for infinite time. but that is something maybe harder to think about.

And why do you think time is infinite, having no beginning?

Originally Posted by Ne-yo

And why do you think time is infinite, having no beginning?

i dont think time is infinite. what i said was, i dont undersstand how a begining could be, the only thing that would sort of make sense would be if time was infinite. which some scientists do actually believe

Originally Posted by slash112

i dont think time is infinite. what i said was, i dont undersstand how a begining could be

So in other words the Big Bang is hard to understand for you? What part confuses you?

Originally Posted by Slash112

the only thing that would sort of make sense would be if time was infinite.

Why would a Static Universe make more sense than the Big Bang?

Originally Posted by Slash112

which some scientists do actually believe

Keep in mind that there are many other scientist that doesn't accept this concept which they are more in accordance with Einsteins Theory of G.R.

dude, the big bang wasn't the start of energy and matter.

the big bang was expansion of matter that already existed.

i want to know where that tiny ball of compressed matter came from.

Originally Posted by slash112

dude, the big bang wasn't the start of energy and matter.

Really? and why not? Is it not at all possible that all forms of matter/energy space/time could be formed in the instant of the Big Bang?