Thread: Question for athiests...

Originally Posted by davej

How does Christianity REALLY effect you... How does someone being a christian effect you? Besides those people that won't leave you alone while walking down the sidewalk or in the mall or whatever. Those people get on my nerves as well.

People vote based on religious beliefs
Beliefs affect your communication and rapport with others
Beliefs affect businesses (eg. hospital care, hostels, etc.)
People will avoid certain care due to beliefs (eg. womens rights, blood transfusions, etc.)
Children are very susceptible to being indoctrinated

This list could go on for a long time. The bottom line is, beliefs are a fundamental reason for how we and others behave.

~

Originally Posted by kingerman

.But Atheism is a disease.

Say what?

Faith is a disease,if any. Faith should be torn out from humans, banished into the fringe of existence and abolished. Rational mind is the cure that keeps that venom from reaching the heart. Too bad that most of the people have failed to notice the symptoms of poisoning.

Originally Posted by kingerman

They want no accountability to a higher power, or condemnation from fellow citizens so that they may live their life without the conscience that leads to feelings of remorse when they do things that go against our moral values.

Sounds awfully lot of something that religion has always carried with it. Inquisition, witch hunting, punishing those who think differently,silencing those who are questioning the religious institutes, cults who use people into their own ends, general manipulation and spreading of false knowledge. The list goes on forever. The common thing about all these is that they are all executed under the cloak of faith, which gives them an illusion that they have a right to judge others or that they have some kind of "pure morals". Like those could somehow give them the higher power and justification to do whatever they seem fit.

Originally Posted by kingerman

They aspire to support abortions, homosexuality, euthanasia. They are on the wrong side of most every issue that makes a country and society great.

So based on this i.e the absence of homosexuals is the sign of a great society? I wonder what kind of society you are living in or even want to live. Atheists are not any more wrong than theists, since we are discussing opinions. You are merely making a lone decision that theists would have some kind of higher moral ground than atheists. You have no right to label any of those things as "wrong".

Anyway, in conclusion. I disagree with everything you have said this far. Simple and plain.

Originally Posted by kingerman

It seems that people are saying that atheism is getting larger in America.But Atheism is a disease. Atheism is becoming more and more militant in their effort to deny God in the personal and public forum. This is a common tactic as was used by the homosexuals, feminists, and other anti-social groups looking to be normalized into mainstream society. These tactics are used mainly in America where they are protected and safe from retaliation. Or from behind a monitor, where they are hidden. They want no accountability to a higher power, or condemnation from fellow citizens so that they may live their life without the conscience that leads to feelings of remorse when they do things that go against our moral values. They aspire to support abortions, homosexuality, euthanasia. They are on the wrong side of most every issue that makes a country and society great.

Ya screw those guys what have they ever done for society?

EDIT: This:

Originally Posted by kingerman

It seems that people are saying that atheism is getting larger in America.

It is.

But Atheism is a disease.

No, atheism is an ideological stance.

Atheism is becoming more and more militant in their effort to deny God in the personal and public forum.

No, I am pretty sure we're all still asking the same question: "Why should we believe that?" And you have yet to supply a coherent, reasonable answer.

This is a common tactic as was used by the homosexuals, feminists, and other anti-social groups looking to be normalized into mainstream society.

I can imagine, what with people like you being so intolerant and discriminatory against them. PS There is no god. I am not seeing a clash with reality here.

These tactics are used mainly in America where they are protected and safe from retaliation.

Half of Europe is atheist. Do you know why?

Or from behind a monitor, where they are hidden.

You mean like you are right now? Where you sit, attacking several very large groups of people safe in the comfort of your home? Hypocrisy. Come back when you have a real argument.

They want no accountability to a higher power, or condemnation from fellow citizens so that they may live their life without the conscience that leads to feelings of remorse when they do things that go against our moral values.

Nope, we are just honest truth seekers mainly. You're acting like we go around spreading lies of hate and torture to convert people into an irrational belief...?

They aspire to support abortions,

Women have the right to abort. It is their body, not yours.

homosexuality,

If gods hates homos, then why did he make them? Or is it because there is no god, and this irrational hate stems from a bronze-aged superstition of homosexuals?

euthanasia.

Let's let everybody suffer a cruel death, even if they don't want to. God told us it was right!!

They are on the wrong side of most every issue that makes a country and society great.

Such as...?

Again, come back when you have a real argument. In the meanwhile I did lol at your idiocy.

Originally Posted by kingerman

It seems that people are saying that atheism is getting larger in America.But Atheism is a disease. Atheism is becoming more and more militant in their effort to deny God in the personal and public forum. This is a common tactic as was used by the homosexuals, feminists, and other anti-social groups looking to be normalized into mainstream society. These tactics are used mainly in America where they are protected and safe from retaliation. Or from behind a monitor, where they are hidden. They want no accountability to a higher power, or condemnation from fellow citizens so that they may live their life without the conscience that leads to feelings of remorse when they do things that go against our moral values. They aspire to support abortions, homosexuality, euthanasia. They are on the wrong side of most every issue that makes a country and society great.

What are you basing these accusations on? Where are you getting these ideals from?

Does it feel nice to not have to think for yourself? To be able to have a book to tell you everything to think and how to feel about issues?

Dogmatically follow these ideals and do not question them or your family and loved ones will disown you.

Or maybe you should disown these ideals and think for yourself for a moment - what are the justifications for these beliefs? Why should you dogmatically throw away your autonomy? You are an individual, after all.

You've made some grand accusations in this paragraph and have not given a single shred of justification. I hope you can, but I am dubious that you can conjure a justification that is born from your own conscious thoughts.

~

Originally Posted by kingerman

[a bunch of crap goes here]

Typical ignorant comments from a bigot.

They are on the wrong side of most every issue that makes a country and society great.

So you're against freedom and those who support it? You're against critical thinking?

The irony is that these two things are what makes society great, and you've just attacked them. It's why you're free to be a bigot, why I'm free to criticise you, and because a lot of people used critical thinking skills I have the ability to write this on a computer right now, instead of us sitting in some jungle somewhere around a camp fire.

If we all used blind faith as a virtue, you'd almost certainly be dead of starvation or disease, and even if you weren't, we'd be stuck in a stone-age culture.

Originally Posted by kingerman

They aspire to support abortions, homosexuality, euthanasia. They are on the wrong side of most every issue that makes a country and society great.

...and that's how kingerman was labelled an idiotic bigot by every other member of dreamviews.

How he ended up in a dreaming forum we'll never know.

Originally Posted by kingerman

It seems that people are saying that atheism is getting larger in America.But Atheism is a disease. Atheism is becoming more and more militant in their effort to deny God in the personal and public forum.

By "public", do you mean "government", i.e. public schools and courthouses? If so, then the reason for it is that government and religion should never ever be mixed. What do you think of putting the tenets of Islam on a federal courthouse wall or Satanic prayers being conducted by teachers and principals in public schools? See the problem?

Originally Posted by kingerman

It. This is a common tactic as was used by the homosexuals, feminists, and other anti-social groups looking to be normalized into mainstream society. These tactics are used mainly in America where they are protected and safe from retaliation. Or from behind a monitor, where they are hidden.

Homosexuals are an antisocial group? They are a biological group. You really love to generalize, huh?

Originally Posted by kingerman

They want no accountability to a higher power,

You don't get it. We don't think there is a higher power.

Originally Posted by kingerman

or condemnation from fellow citizens so that they may live their life without the conscience that leads to feelings of remorse when they do things that go against our moral values.

The percentage of prisoners who are Christian is a whole lot higher than the percentage of prisoners who are atheists. How do you explain that? Most atheists are pretty good people. It looks like you need to believe in a big ghost to act right, not that you actually do. We can act right without believing in an invisible ghost head hancho of the universe.

Originally Posted by kingerman

They aspire to support abortions, homosexuality, euthanasia. They are on the wrong side of most every issue that makes a country and society great.

It is your religion that has you thinking those things are evil when the real damage to society comes from opposing those things. You want to increase the suffering in the world by going against them. First and second trimester fetuses don't have minds and therefore cannot suffer, homosexuality is a preference that is not chosen and that is not evil, and people who are in agonizing pain beyond hope of healing should not have to keep suffering. You are the one who wants to make pregnant women suffer, to make homosexuals suffer, and to make dying people in agonizing pain continue to suffer. Your religion deludes you into thinking being so terrible makes you morally superior. That makes it dangerous.

I find it interesting that someone is eager to label acts against a society or goverment as evil. Actually, if we could get a one week on this forum, when nobody would use concepts of good and evil, we would get a lot more sensible topics. How can people just go naming things "good" or "evil". They can be bad for you or they can be beneficial for you. Nothing to do with morals there.

I am really waiting for kingerman to reply.

Originally Posted by kingerman

It seems that people are saying that atheism is getting larger in America.But Atheism is a disease. Atheism is becoming more and more militant in their effort to deny God in the personal and public forum. This is a common tactic as was used by the homosexuals, feminists, and other anti-social groups looking to be normalized into mainstream society. These tactics are used mainly in America where they are protected and safe from retaliation. Or from behind a monitor, where they are hidden. They want no accountability to a higher power, or condemnation from fellow citizens so that they may live their life without the conscience that leads to feelings of remorse when they do things that go against our moral values. They aspire to support abortions, homosexuality, euthanasia. They are on the wrong side of most every issue that makes a country and society great.

Issues like the freedom of speech?

When has atheism ever been militant? There are books about atheism that you can choose to buy and read rationally and sceptically. Sometimes atheists go on TV and talk about their points of view. But are you really honestly saying that atheists try to force their beliefs on people by means other than discussion?

Two final questions:

1. How many christian preachers do you think there are?
2. How many atheist preachers do you think there are?

The answer's pretty obvious and so is the reason.

By the way, do you consider other religions diseases? They have opinions completely contrary to yours and Gods completely incompatible with yours. By your reasoning you would destroy all other religions apart from your own, I presume? This is called totalitarianism; most people think it's a bad thing.

My beef with christianity is it's political influence. I want to be sure that when I have kids, they are taught evolution and never hear the word Creationism in school. I want them to know about condoms and safe sex. If I have a daughter who gets pregnant and isn't ready to be a parent, I want her to know that they're nothing wrong with an abortion. If I have a child who's gay, I want them to have the same rights as everyone else. If someone believes in god that's fine, but I don't like when it gets tangled with politics. We don't live in a Christian country, the constitution is very clear that God has no place in government.

Let's start with homosexuality.I don't know why homosexuality is wrong. But one thing I can say is that when God made man and woman, He made them to fit perfectly together. Think about this, when two people of the same sex come together, they do not fit perfectly, one has to take on the opposite role or use some form of substitution. When you have one man and one woman, no substitutions are necessary; there's a perfect fit, and only God can create such perfection.

Your atheism is a choice.
I thank God for my Freedom and that you can make that choice.
What you need to know for future purpose:
"Him who come untoeth me,
I shall in no wise cast out".

Romans 8:1 "I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing
with the glory that will be revealed in us. The creation waits in eager expecation for the sons of God to be revealed".

I believe that you are important and for some reason this information is needed for the near future.Have confidence.

Let me clarify my words in a nicer manner "disease".No but it's It's lack of understanding and false thinking.

About Atheists being good people.I would say that most people become atheists as a result of a painful experience, or abuse. They cannot understand how God would allow this or that, or they can't relate to God because of their warped view of father-figures (or lack theory), etc.

Statistically, atheists are the most likely to have grown up without a father figure, and interestly, are the most likely living a unfullfilling life.They don't like the idea of someone holding them accountable for their actions.

Originally Posted by ninja9578

We don't live in a Christian country, the constitution is very clear that God has no place in government.

Indeed. The odds that an imaginary entity can provide a solid foundation for a law system are near to zero. Especially, when the description of this imaginary being changes according what people want. I would rather have a drunken ass to make a law system, but there isn't real difference in the justification anyways.

Originally Posted by kingerman

Let's start with homosexuality.I don't know why homosexuality is wrong. But one thing I can say is that when God made man and woman, He made them to fit perfectly together. Think about this, when two people of the same sex come together, they do not fit perfectly, one has to take on the opposite role or use some form of substitution. When you have one man and one woman, no substitutions are necessary; there's a perfect fit, and only God can create such perfection.

Your atheism is a choice.
I thank God for my Freedom and that you can make that choice.
What you need to know for future purpose:
"Him who come untoeth me,
I shall in no wise cast out".

Romans 8:1 "I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing
with the glory that will be revealed in us. The creation waits in eager expecation for the sons of God to be revealed".

I believe that you are important and for some reason this information is needed for the near future.Have confidence.

Let me clarify my words in a nicer manner "disease".No but it's It's lack of understanding and false thinking.

About Atheists being good people.I would say that most people become atheists as a result of a painful experience, or abuse. They cannot understand how God would allow this or that, or they can't relate to God because of their warped view of father-figures (or lack theory), etc.

Statistically, atheists are the most likely to have grown up without a father figure, and interestly, are the most likely living a unfullfilling life.They don't like the idea of someone holding them accountable for their actions.

They don't have fulfilling lives because the universe is meaningless. Atheists are intellectually coherent enough to not create a made up meaning just so that they can feel fulfilled.

Talking about statistics, did you know that the UK rate of atheism is 50% but the atheist prison population is 1%?

Christian morality my ass.

We don't live in a Christian country, the constitution is very clear that God has no place in government.

I thought he's in your pledges and on your dollar bills..?

Originally Posted by kingerman

Statistically, atheists are the most likely to have grown up without a father figure, and interestly, are the most likely living a unfullfilling life.They don't like the idea of someone holding them accountable for their actions.

Where are you getting your statistics from?

Originally Posted by Xei

I thought he's in your pledges and on your dollar bills..?

Those popped in nearly a couple hundred years after the constitution was written. Faggots in the government thought they'd slip it in.

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

In God We Trust is the official motto of the United States and the U.S. state of Florida. The motto first appeared on a United States coin in 1864 during strong Christian sentiment emerging during the Civil War, but In God We Trust did not become the official U.S. national motto until after the passage of an Act of Congress in 1956.[1][2] It is codified as federal law in the United States Code at 36 U.S.C. § 302, which provides: "In God we trust" is the national motto".

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

The Pledge of Allegiance to the United States is an oath of loyalty to the republic of the United States of America, originally composed by Francis Bellamy in 1892. The Pledge has been modified four times since then, with the most recent change adding the words "under God" in 1954. The Pledge is predominantly sworn by children in public schools in response to state laws requiring the Pledge to be offered. Congressional sessions open with the swearing of the Pledge, as do government meetings at local levels, and some sporting events.

Originally Posted by Unelias

imaginary entity.

1 Corinthians 2:13-15
13This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. 14The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment.

Do we need to prove anything to you? He is not invisible to those who believe in him. His very Presence is with us every day. He is as real as our next breath. Just because you can't see him, doesn't mean he isn't real. He just isn't real to you. Spiritual things are spiritually discerned. You have to reach out for the truth in your spirit, with a sincere heart. On that day you will find him.

You are trying to understand from an intellectual point of view. We are Mind, body and Spirit. Some people are not aware of their spiritual side at all. Sad, because that is really the only one that counts. Your Body will decay as will the world knowledge you have gained, die with you. Where will you be then? Only those who have the Holy Spirit within them, will be raised to eternity. It is the Spirit within them that will raise them up. If you don't have it, do you know what happens to you? You need to find out.

If God wants me to believe in him why doesn't God show himself to me? Why does he keep providing me with evidence which contradicts his existence?

There is no such thing as eternity. I know what happens when I die yes; nothing. Same for you.

Seriously even for religion, 'infinite goodness for an infinite amount of time' sounds like a bit of a hyperbole.

Let's start with homosexuality.I don't know why homosexuality is wrong. But one thing I can say is that when God made man and woman, He made them to fit perfectly together. Think about this, when two people of the same sex come together, they do not fit perfectly, one has to take on the opposite role or use some form of substitution. When you have one man and one woman, no substitutions are necessary; there's a perfect fit, and only God can create such perfection.

emphasis mine

You don't know why homosexuality is wrong, and your only basis for claiming that it is wrong is that it's different? Of course heterosexuality is a perfect fit. Evolutionary Biology 101, maybe read the chapter on reproduction and the necessity for both the egg and the sperm.

Are you also indirectly stating that your god had no part in creating homosexuality? Would you like to say that Satan created homosexuality? I'm sure there are people here who would like to clear that up for you (myself included).

Let me clarify my words in a nicer manner "disease".No but it's It's lack of understanding and false thinking.

Do you hear that? It's the pot calling the kettle black.

About Atheists being good people. ...

I'd like to point out that what you said after "about atheists being good people" has nothing to do with whether they're good or not.

... I would say that most people become atheists as a result of a painful experience, or abuse. They cannot understand how God would allow this or that, or they can't relate to God because of their warped view of father-figures (or lack theory), etc.

Statistically, atheists are the most likely to have grown up without a father figure, and interestly, are the most likely living a unfullfilling life.They don't like the idea of someone holding them accountable for their actions.

Where are you getting your statistics? Are you just hypothesizing? What makes you qualified to make such hypotheses? I can hypothesize, too. I don't know about where you live, but where I live, Christians are the ones that have abusive families or pitiful father figures.

I am insulted that you think that the only people capable of living fulfilling lives are religious people. I would venture so far as to say that you probably think the only people capable of living fulfilling lives are Christians, or your particular flavor of Christianity. Life is what you make out of it, and an ancient book with archaic morals/values/ideas, in my humble opinion, should have no effect on it (unless you like living in ignorance, blissfully unaware of the true, natural beauty of the universe, untainted by the existence of a fictional despot).

--

Additionally:

This is a common tactic as was used by the homosexuals, feminists, and other anti-social groups looking to be normalized into mainstream society.

What do you mean, "anti-social" group? If we did not have feminists, women probably still not be considered equal in today's society. Are you classifying feminists in the same category of "wrongness" as homosexuals? Because that's equally narrow-minded and insulting, and really flaunts your primitive ideas about the "ideal" society.

Does anyone find this signature highly ironic?

Personally i feel that having faith allows us the greatest freedom in secular life, precisely because it leads to a genuine and complete detachment from any possible ideological or bigoted attitude.

Hah, sure.

I don't even understand what the logical argument is supposed to be there.

Originally Posted by kingerman

? He is not invisible to those who believe in him. His very Presence is with us every day. He is as real as our next breath. Just because you can't see him, doesn't mean he isn't real. He just isn't real to you.

Hey, that's just like my imaginary friend Jethro! He says you're an idiot. Don't shoot the messenger.

Originally Posted by kingerman

Let's start with homosexuality.I don't know why homosexuality is wrong. But one thing I can say is that when God made man and woman, He made them to fit perfectly together. Think about this, when two people of the same sex come together, they do not fit perfectly, one has to take on the opposite role or use some form of substitution. When you have one man and one woman, no substitutions are necessary; there's a perfect fit, and only God can create such perfection.

Your atheism is a choice.
I thank God for my Freedom and that you can make that choice.
What you need to know for future purpose:
"Him who come untoeth me,
I shall in no wise cast out".

Romans 8:1 "I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing
with the glory that will be revealed in us. The creation waits in eager expecation for the sons of God to be revealed".

I believe that you are important and for some reason this information is needed for the near future.Have confidence.

Let me clarify my words in a nicer manner "disease".No but it's It's lack of understanding and false thinking.

About Atheists being good people.I would say that most people become atheists as a result of a painful experience, or abuse. They cannot understand how God would allow this or that, or they can't relate to God because of their warped view of father-figures (or lack theory), etc.

Statistically, atheists are the most likely to have grown up without a father figure, and interestly, are the most likely living a unfullfilling life.They don't like the idea of someone holding them accountable for their actions.

God didn't make anyone, evolution did. Only trial and error a hundred trillion times can make something perfect. That's evolution, not god. If god hates homosexuals, why did he make them?

Most atheists I know were made so from education. The more you know about science, the less religion makes sense. Where are you getting the stats that atheists don't have father figures? When responding look at the publisher of the study, christian studies are notorious for fudging numbers, find me a study done by a member of the academy of science.

I don't even understand what the logical argument is supposed to be there.

The irony being that he claims faith makes him free from bigotry yet it actually the cause of his bigotry (or at least used to justify it)?

Or that blind belief in something with no evidence gives detachment from an idea?

Who was it that said, "Good people do good things, bad people do bad things. For a good person to do bad things - that takes religion."?

Actually, Christians hardly affect me in my day-to-day life. Most of the Christians in Norway are the kind that believes in science and evolution and that there might be God-fellow somewhere. Just sometimes Jehovah witnesses or whatever knocks on your door and steals some time.
It's only on DV that I've seen real creationists.