Great - thanks Zoth! |
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In case someone is still looking for the article. Great discussion btw ^^ |
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Great - thanks Zoth! |
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Considering Voss was one of the authors, you can probably get some more insight by reviewing her "Lucidity Scale". I won't be surprised if it keeps showing in future studies of this nature. Here's the article. |
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Thanks again - I was just about to edit in, that I found nothing else whatsoever on the measuring method in the paper than an attached reference number, which is really not in order for something absolutely central and crucial, actually. |
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Last edited by StephL; 05-21-2014 at 03:18 PM. Reason: can't seem to leave it be ..
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Thank you Zthread! |
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Well well - here a nice graphic, which the authors did not provide so concisely - it stems from converting diagrams of theirs, so the data can be interpreted easily - from here: The Neurocritic: Does Gamma tACS Really Induce Lucid Dreaming? |
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Last edited by StephL; 05-30-2014 at 05:03 PM. Reason: can't seem to leave it be ..
On the positive side, though, it's still pretty encouraging that they were able to induce statistically significant increases in proven indicators of lucidity in subjects who were not LD enthusiasts, using weak electrical stimulation (0.25 mA peak-to-peak) for a duration of only 30 seconds. In addition, at least one of the participants had an actual LD: |
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Last edited by NyxCC; 05-30-2014 at 11:33 PM. Reason: Merged posts
Fantastic Zthread - thanks - we should really do that - take up direct contact to scientists - also wonderfully put! |
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She might just delete it without replying. We'll see. |
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One of my users is trying to reproduce the findings. You can see the effect of the tACS on the raw EEG reading: |
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Not sure I understand this. The horizontal scale must be seconds. What is the vertical scale? Is the gray trace the tACS stimulation? And the blue and green curves show that the brain state was changed and REM was induced? Is the NeuroSky device capable of doing the tACS? Doesn't look like it, based on their website. So was another device used to produce the tACS stimulation? |
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Yes, the horizontal scale is in seconds, so the printout shows one minute. The vertical scale shows the raw EEG signal from the NeuroSky device. You can read more about it here: Brain Wave Signal (EEG) of NeuroSky and use this formula to convert the raw values to voltages: (rawValue * (1.8/4096)) / 2000. This is due to a 2000x gain, 4096 value range, and 1.8V input voltage. |
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So the main significance of the chart you posted is to show that the tACS has an effect on the brain state? How do we know that it's not just the tACS current that's being directly detected, rather than brain state? It looks like the brain state goes right back to normal after the tACS is shut off. Or am I misunderstanding it? |
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Last edited by Zthread; 06-04-2014 at 06:08 PM.
It is the tACS current that is being directly detected. And the brain state does go back to normal, so all we have to go on for now is the subjective statement. It would be interesting to see a longer recording with the power bands turned on. |
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The following blog from July 18, 2012 mentions prices for a couple of tDCS devices. Prices for tACS devices are probably similar. |
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Last edited by Zthread; 06-05-2014 at 10:58 PM.
Hm - so it isn't even sure, that the brain state adapted to the current, because the current directly would overshadow it anyway? |
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Thank you jeff! |
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This setup seems to work only in the early morning between 4-5am by entrainiment of 40 Hz gamma waves. This makes the frontal and occipital regions artificially active during the REM sleep stage and viola. Part of the brain is asleep and part is wide awake |
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Last edited by jeffg; 06-13-2014 at 11:43 PM. Reason: attached image
Elite. Was wondering if we couldn't also filter out the 40 Hz at some point. |
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Was thinking about using my Zeo Bedside +Serial cable to detect REM and then have my computer trigger flashing LED's + 40Hz tACs for 30-45 seconds during the beginning of REM stage. Still waiting on some of the parts to arrive and I'm looking for a cheap 3.3v Arduino + BLE. According to the data in the paper, it seems tACs stimulation (as applied in the experiment) would not be enough to achieve what would be considered a lucid dream state by many members of this site. I believe they only applied tACs for 30 seconds or something like that. Perhaps adjusting duration or other parameters would be enough to achieve better lucidity. |
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Last edited by gururise; 06-23-2014 at 05:38 AM.
The setup works well now using the Zeoscope , modified to trigger the arduino Lucid.jpg(tACs) play along with the music track and only arm the tACs after 5am |
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How long until we see a LDing tACS kickstarter, I wonder? |
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My Lucid Dreaming Articles/Tutorials:
Mindfulness - An Alternative Approach to ADA
Intent in Lucid Dreaming; Break that Dry-Spell, Escape the Technique Rut
Always, no sometimes think it's me,
But you know I know when it's a dream
I think I know I mean a yes
But it's all wrong
That is I think I disagree
-John Lennon
It would be great if tACS kickstarters would have aswell optional options of flashing lights or beeping sound |
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I'm back! Again? Uhhh..
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