Thread: my first two succesful WILD'S! great recall, would like tips to prolong

Congratulations! Didn't read text, but I will provide some tutorials for you to read to prolong and stabilize the dream. You can try to read the Dream Stabilization and Clarity Tutorial to make your dream a bit more clear and to make your dreams last longer, a bit more realistic, and more attached to your senses.

I hope I helped!

Good for you.

A better stabilization tutorial.

This one builds off the fundamental nature of dreams and works hundreds of times better than the methods "officially" taught. And you've already got a head start on it since one of your goals is to engage all of your senses.

Grats on the lucids, btw.

Originally Posted by Mzzkc

A better stabilization tutorial.

I will be sure to read that someday. It probably is better than the official method, it hardly does shit for me. >.<

EDIT: Oh, that thing! I forgot about it! Haven't tried it yet... probably should.

The following is pasted from a free open source book. The term 'Phase' is a generic term for lucid dreams and out-of-body experiences.

Deepening and Maintaining

The concept of deepening

Deepening refers to techniques that induce realistic perception and awareness in the phase state. The phase is not an exact, fixed state where a practitioner is present or not. It is a realm of states characterized by a transition from the usual perception of the physical body to a complete alienation from it, while maintaining consciousness and reality of perception, albeit in a different frame of space. Deepening techniques solve the problem of diminished or absent sensory perception in the phase.
Sensory experiences within a fully realized phase experience are as realistic as those in everyday reality. In almost one-half of all cases, practitioners observe that reality-based surroundings pale in comparison to vibrant detail and color of the phase space. To this end, after entering the phase, a practitioner must perform deepening techniques to enhance and solidify the degree and quality of phase reality.
Full spatial perception in the phase only occurs after deepening techniques have been applied. There would be no point to remaining in the phase without deepening.
Deepening is also related to the length of time a practitioner may remain in the phase. If an action is taken without a deep, realistic phase, the experience will always be several times shorter in duration than a phase where deepening techniques had been applied. The properties of the phase space very much depend on its depth. When surroundings are blurry and unclear, the stability of objects is very weak.
There is a direct correlation between the realism of a phase and a practitioner’s level of awareness, so it is extremely important to ensure a deep phase in order to promote maximum awareness.

Sensory amplification

The more a phase is experienced by the sensory faculties, the deeper and longer the phase will be. Sensory amplification in the phase is the most effective deepening technique precisely because it allows the activation of primary internal sensations during the transition from reality to the phase. All deepening techniques should be practiced with a high level of aggression, with no pauses, only continuous, deliberate action. If techniques are practiced in a calm, relaxed manner, then deepening attempts will most often result in falling asleep or returning to the body.

Palpation is the first deepening technique that should be recalled when entering the phase.

Vision may be absent at the beginning of a phase experience, but the sensation of occupying a defined space is almost always present. In the case of a completely absent sense of sight, only tactile-kinesthetic perception is possible. That is, movement throughout a space and the touching objects there is the only option when vision is absent. The sense of touch plays a key role in the perception of everyday reality. Accordingly, if the sense of touch is actively used in the phase space, it is only natural that the phase will deepen and reach its maximum potential.
Palpation is performed by fleetingly touching anything that may be found in the immediate surroundings. This should be done by quickly but carefully perceiving the feel of surfaces and shapes. Hands should not remain on a particular place for more than one second, remaining constantly in motion to locate new objects. The goal of palpation is to touch and also to learn something about encountered objects or shapes. For example, if one feels a mug, one may touch it not only from the outside, but also from the inside. Once a practitioner has rolled out of the body, the bed may be touched; the physical body lying in bed may be touched, as well as the floor, the carpet, nearby walls, or a bedside table.

Another palpation technique is performed by rubbing the palms against each other as if trying to warm them on a cold day. Blowing on the palms also produces sensations that will help deepen the phase. Since tactile perception of the world is not limited to the palms, the hands should be moved over the entire body while in the phase to excite and fully activate the sense of touch.
As soon as palpation begins, the feeling that the phase is deepening and becoming fixed soon follows. Usually, it takes five to 10 seconds of palpation exercises to reach the maximum level of deepening. After performing this technique, the pseudo-physical sensations will be indistinguishable from those of everyday reality. If vision is absent on phase entry, it quickly emerges during palpation.
Peering is the primary technical variation of sensory amplification. However, it is not always initially accessible since it requires vision, which may begin as absent in the phase. Once vision appears or has been created using special techniques (see Chapter 8), peering may begin. The effectiveness of this technique originates in the fact that vision is the human’s primary instrument of perception. Therefore, by exciting vision to its maximum potential within the phase, it is possible to attain a fully immersive phase state that is completely apart from normal reality.
Peering should be done at a distance of four to six inches from objects within the phase. A practitioner should glance over the minute details of objects and surfaces to bring definition to the phase space while increasing the quality of vision. When looking at hands, the lines of the palm or the fingernail and cuticles should be examined. If observing a wall, study the texture of its wallpaper. When looking at a mug, one should look carefully at its handle, the curve of its rim, or any inscriptions. Attention should not remain on one area of an object for more than half a second. Active observation should constantly move to new objects and their minute details, approaching objects or picking them up to draw them nearer. It’s best when objects near one another; otherwise, too much time is spent moving around.
Peering brings quick and clear results. Usually, if vision is blurry and there is a yearning to return into the physical body, with just 3-10 seconds of peering all of this will be gone without a trace. After peering, vision adjusts as quickly and clearly as if a camera lens was correctly installed in front of the eyes, capturing the image in the sharpest of focus.
Simultaneous peering and palpation provide the maximum possible deepening effect in the phase. This method of sensory amplification engages the two most important perceptive, thus the effect is twice greater than when the two actions are separately performed. If vision is present in the phase, simultaneous peering and palpation is an absolute necessity because it facilitates good phase depth in the quickest and simplest manner.
The combination of palpation and peering must not only be performed simultaneously, but also upon the same objects. For example, while a practitioner may look at the hands and simultaneously rub them against each other; or while looking at a coffee mug, all of its parts may be observed and touched at the same. It is necessary to maintain dynamism of action, remembering that feelings should be experienced not half-heartedly, remembering that full concentration on sensory amplification is an excellent means to a deep, quality phase.

The general concept of maintaining

Phase maintenance or “maintaining” refers to techniques that allow a practitioner to remain in the phase for the maximum amount of time possible. Without knowledge of “maintaining” techniques, the duration of the phase will be several times shorter than it could otherwise be.
Phase maintenance consists of three primary principles: resisting a return to the wakeful state (known as a foul), resisting falling asleep, and resisting a false exit from the phase. As a rule, the first two problems (return to a wakeful state, or falling asleep) are often encountered by beginners, but the third difficulty (false exit) manifests at later stages of practice.
There are specific solutions for the three problems described in addition to general rules that apply to any phase experience. Studying these rules should be given just as high a priority as studying the specific solutions, since only some of them, when applied separately, may help one to remain in the phase several times longer than usual.
With perfect knowledge of all the techniques for maintaining, a phase may last two to four minutes, which doesn’t sound like an extended duration, but really is. A particularity of the phase space is that achieving something and moving around in it takes a minimum amount of time, mere seconds. Thus, so much can be done during 3 minutes in the phase that one literally needs a list, so as not to waste any time.
Perception of time varies from practitioner to practitioner. Novices especially perceive a real minute as more like five to 10 minutes in the phase. This is determined by the particularities of individual psychology, state of mind, and the type of events that occur in the phase.
In order to understand how long a phase really lasted, one does not need to try using a stopwatch in the real world. It is better to count how many actions took place in it and how much time each of them could have taken. The result will differ from one’s first rough estimate several times over.
The maximum duration the phase varies depends heavily on the ability to apply phase maintenance techniques. Some practitioners have difficulty breaking the two-minute barrier while some find it easy to remain in the phase for 10 minutes or longer. It is physically impossible to remain in the phase forever because even a 20-minute phase is unheard of.
Techniques and rules against returning to the body

Constant Sensory Amplification

The same sensory amplification described in the chapter on deepening (Chapter 6) also applies to “maintaining”. In essence, having achieved the necessary depth of phase, one should not stop to actively agitate his or her perception but should keep on doing this all the while, albeit not as actively as during deepening.
The idea is that during the entire duration of the phase, all action should be focused on experiencing the maximum possible amount of tactile-kinesthetic and visual perceptions. This entails constantly touching and examining everything in minute detail. For example, if passing by a bookcase, touch and examine some of the books in it, including their pages and corners. Tactile observation should be performed on every encountered object.
Palpation may be applied separately as a background sensation. This is done in order not to overload the sense of sight. The hands should be touching something all the time, or better still, rubbing each other.

As-Needed Sensory Amplification

Applying the as-needed sensory amplification technique is no different than constant sensory amplification. It is used only when a foul (a return to a wakeful state) is imminent or when phase vision starts to blur and fade. For example, while traveling in the phase everything may start to blur, signaling a weakening of the phase. At this moment, the practitioner should touch every available object; observe everything in fine detail. As soon as returns to a clear and realistic state, actions may be continued without needing to perform amplification.

Forced Falling Asleep

As soon as indicators of a foul appear, immediately lie down on the floor and attempt forced falling asleep; the same as the phase entry technique. After successfully performing the technique (3-10sec.) , a practitioner may get up and continue to travel through the phase since the perception of reality and its depth will most likely be restored. Resist actually fall asleep.

Hooking onto the phase

Another interesting method of “maintaining” is hooking onto the phase. In the event of an impending foul, grab onto an object in the phase actively palpate or squeeze it. Even if a return to the body occurs during this technique, the hands will continue to hold the phase object and the physical hands will not be perceived. Beginning with these phantom feelings in the hands, separation from the body is possible. Any nearby object may be hooked: the leg of a chair, a drinking glass, a doorknob, a stone, or a stick. If there is nothing to grab hold of, clasp the hands together or bite down on a lip or the tongue.

Techniques and rules for resisting falling asleep

Constant Understanding of the Possibility of Falling Asleep

Most of the time, falling asleep while in the phase can be overcome by a constant awareness that sleep is possible and detrimental to a continued phase. A practitioner must always consider the probability of falling asleep and actions must be carefully analyzed to ensure that they are based on real desires and not on paradoxical notions, which are common to dreams.

Periodic Analysis of Awareness

Periodically asking the question, “Am I dreaming?” while in the phase helps appraise situations and the quality of the actions being performed at any moment. If everything meets the standards of full phase awareness, actions may be continued. Asked on a regular basis, this question becomes habit, automatically used while transitioning to the phase state. If you keep asking this question regularly, sooner or later it will arise automatically at the moment when you are actually transitioning into a dream. This will then help one to wake up, after which it is possible to continue to remain in a full-fledged phase..
The frequency of the question should be based on a practitioner’s ability to consistently remain in the phase. If a phase usually lasts five to 10 minutes or more, it is not necessary to ask the question more than once every 2 minutes; otherwise, this question has to be asked frequently, literally once a minute, or just a little less often.
There is another important rule related to resisting falling asleep: no practitioner should engage or participate in spontaneous events occurring in the phase. Events that are not planned or deliberate lead to a high probability of being immersed in the side action, which results in a loss of concentrated awareness.
Technique against an unrecognized phase

Since the cessation of the phase experience may be simulated and no different in terms of perception from a real exit, differences between the physical world and the phase world must be actively discerned. In other words, a practitioner must know how to determine whether a genuine phase exit has occurred.
At present, only one experiment is known to guarantee an accurate result. The phase space cannot withstand prolonged close visual attention to the minute details of objects. Within several seconds of acute examination, shapes begin to distort, objects change color, produce smoke, melt, or morph in other ways.
After exiting the phase, look at a small object from a distance of four to six inches, and remain focused on it for 10 seconds. If the object does not change, a practitioner can be assured that the surroundings are reality. If an object is somehow distorted or askew, a practitioner knows that the phase is intact. The simplest option is to look at the tip of the finger since it is always close at hand. It is also possible to take a book and examine its text. Text in the phase will either blur or appear as alphabetical gibberish, or full of incomprehensible symbols.

General rules for maintaining

The practitioner should not look into the distance. If faraway objects are observed for a long period of time, a foul may occur, or one may be translocated towards these objects. In order to look at distant objects without problems, a practitioner has to employ techniques for maintaining.
Constant activity. Under no circumstances should a practitioner remain passive and calm in the phase. The more actions performed, the longer the phase is. The fewer actions – the shorter the phase. It is enough to pause for thought, and everything stops.
Plan of action. There should be a clear plan of action consisting of at least 5 tasks to be carried out in the phase at the earliest opportunity.
A practitioner must try to re-enter the phase after experiencing a foul. Always remember that a typical phase experience consists of several repeated entries and exits. Essentially, in most cases it is possible to re-enter the phase through the use of separation or phase state creation techniques immediately after returning to the body.

I really dislike how he frequently uses strange, confusing terminology for well-established phenomena. And I'm not just talking about the "phase" thing either.

The misinformation in there is also disappointing, as is how he only suggests the reader utilize sight and touch for sensory stimulation.

He's been doing this for many years. Remember he lives in a country that was a communist state whilst learning the art of lucid dreaming. He wouldn't have had much, if any, access to the books we have freely available so it is little wonder he had to make some form of terminology. Not to mention the internet didn't exist either. Plus, dont forget also he has been teaching this personally to thousands of people which he gets an enormous amount of feedback from.

Understandable, but it still detracts from the work in a community that has its own terminology.

And there's no excuse for the misinformation, no matter which way you look at it.

What misinformation? I presume that you have far, far less subjective and objective experience than him so you should explain in depth to the extent that he has above as to what this misinformation is.

My experience is actually quite expansive, and I've always found it surprising that I seem to know more about this subject than people who've been studying it for longer periods of time. For instance, he claims that it's unheard of for LDs to last more than twenty minutes, which is utterly ridiculous. I've experienced LDs that have seemed to last for hours, and have had several WILDs, whose length exceeded twenty minutes, wherein I was able to confirm the duration by checking the clock before and after my attempt. Others can corroborate much the same information, and then there's the fact that our later REM periods can last well over twenty minutes, so to claim it's impossible for such a thing to happen is fallacious at best.

Then there's his top-level explanation of dream mechanics, which misses the mark on explaining the underlying workings of the dream. For instance, observing distant locations doesn't necessarily wake or even translocate you. As long as your attention is properly squared away, you'll be fine. That's true for just about everything really, as the dream world requires your attention to exist, which means losing yourself in thought/over-thinking something is a great way to end the LD.

And then there's the bit about FAs only happening to more advanced practitioners, which is also wholly untrue, as plenty of testimonies here and elsewhere point out.

A few other questionable things that have some real basis, but only if applied correctly, include: continuous action/having goals makes the LD laster longer, his 100% guaranteed-accurate RC, the suggestion to completely disregard the events going on around you, and aggression while stimulating the senses.

Originally Posted by Mzzkc

My experience is actually quite expansive, and I've always found it surprising that I seem to know more about this subject than people who've been studying it for longer periods of time. For instance, he claims that it's unheard of for LDs to last more than twenty minutes, which is utterly ridiculous.

His main scope of study is OBE's and it is possible this is where his 20 minute mark comes from. I have very little desire for OBE's unless for a specific purpose so I can't comment. If he is referring also to lucids then as you pay close attention to detail I hope you have emailed him about this. I'm sure he would be very happy to hear from you as he is happy to learn. I myself have never timed an experience in real time.

Originally Posted by Mzzkc

For instance, observing distant locations doesn't necessarily wake or even translocate you.

I do find for myself that this is generally detrimental.

Originally Posted by Mzzkc

As long as your attention is properly squared away, you'll be fine. That's true for just about everything really, as the dream world requires your attention to exist, which means losing yourself in thought/over-thinking something is a great way to end the LD.

That's his advice above.

Originally Posted by Mzzkc

And then there's the bit about FAs only happening to more advanced practitioners, which is also wholly untrue, as plenty of testimonies here and elsewhere point out.

No here he is referring only to OBE's I believe which is a different ball game.

Originally Posted by mcwillis

I do find for myself that this is generally detrimental.

No doubt it can be, but with a better understanding of how things function in dreams it becomes far less of an issue.

Originally Posted by mcwillis

That's his advice above.

Not in so many words. His advice is all top-level stuff, which is fine for most people who are looking to learn practical applications (the purpose of the book, if I'm not mistaken), but the underlying theories pertaining to why this stuff works (attention direction, associations, and schemata) is absent, which disappoints me since there's so much other good stuff in there and those theories can open up so many avenues of exploration and study.

Originally Posted by mcwillis

No here he is referring only to OBE's I believe which is a different ball game.

How can you tell when he's referring to one or the other?

Also, what're the main differences between OBEs and LDs?

I'll admit, my study has been intensely focused on LDing with no thought for things like OBE/AP, as I've always believed them to be the same thing, in essence. Surely the differences can't be terribly vast, as he chooses to use the came catch-all term for the phenomena.

Originally Posted by mcwillis

even a 20-minute phase is unheard of.

I had a fucking 30 or 45 minute lucid. What the hell are you talking about?

Ha ya thats funny that you said you start to float slowly because in my last two lucid dreams I seemed to float around alittle when they first started.

I'm hardly an expert, but since I was little I've able to transition from SP into LD very easily. For me, the biggest thing is be comfortable and take a benadryl before you start. There is nothing worse than being in the middle of an awesome LD and get an itch. If I have to perform a complex movement like scratching thats the end of the dream. Focus is everything.