Thread: What's in a WILD?

saying "Is that all there is to it?" is kind of like saying playing basketball is "just" throwing a ball through a hoop. every person is going to have their own strengths and weaknesses as far as SP onset, staying still, and the techniques they use to achieve a WILD, etc. most of the tutorials cover or expand upon a specific focus of the process.

i would say "To successfully have a WILD you need to lay down in a comfortable position, and basically just stay conscious until your body falls asleep..." is basically true, but i would add "and enter a dream" because folks seem to sometimes have trouble doing that even though they get all manner of SP symptoms.

Do some WBTBs and give it a shot!

Originally Posted by zhineTech

i would say "To successfully have a WILD you need to lay down in a comfortable position, and basically just stay conscious until your body falls asleep..." is basically true, but i would add "and enter a dream" because folks seem to sometimes have trouble doing that even though they get all manner of SP symptoms.

Entering a dream goes hand in hand with falling asleep.

Good points otherwise.

What you're missing is lots of practice. Lucid dreaming is a skill, after all.

Here's an analogy: just because you know that hitting the keys on a piano in the correct order and timing produces music, does that mean you can play the piano?

Originally Posted by Mzzkc

Entering a dream goes hand in hand with falling asleep.

Good points otherwise.

what about stage 1-4 sleep? i have had times where i know i am asleep, i am snoring and in a hypnogogic state but there is no dream. i frequently see threads on here where people hit SP with lots of symptoms (vibrations, auditory etc) but they ask how to step into the dream. i also consider this similar when you are trying to separate from your body.

youve had like 90 more wilds than me, but i know you can fall asleep, be aware, be in SP, and not be in a dream.

Originally Posted by zhineTech

what about stage 1-3 sleep?

What about them? I hope you aren't implying that dreams can't occur in NREM, because that would be untrue.

i have had times where i know i am asleep, i am snoring and in a hypnagogic state but there is no dream.

That's stage one stuff right there, the stage in which you are most aware. But you're still two stages off from REM, provided you're making your attempt 5-6 hours into the night.

Yes, while dreams can happen in any stage, most of the quality stuff occurs during REM which, wouldn't you know it, is also a part of sleep.

The snoring thing is new to me. Does that disrupt your attempts at all?

Originally Posted by zhineTech

i frequently see threads on here where people hit SP with lots of symptoms (vibrations, auditory etc) but they ask how to step into the dream. i also consider this similar when you are trying to separate from your body.

If you're falling asleep properly, the dream will form on its own. This is why falling asleep and dreaming go hand in hand. Transitional techniques can be helpful, but are by no means necessary to WILD successfully.

Also, just so everyone knows, SP occurs exclusively during REM (that's why the thing that causes it is called REM atonia) and is characterized by complete bodily paralysis (other common "symptoms" may not occur at all).

Moreso, 'cause I know someone's gonna be a smartass, the tool tip for REM atonia is referring to the definition of Sleep Paralysis pertaining to being aware during the paralysis (very relevant to the conversation). As it is, REM atonia hits even when a person is unconscious. In those cases, there is no episode of SP (in the medical sense).

Originally Posted by zhineTech

youve had like 90 more wilds than me, but i know you can fall asleep, be aware, be in SP, and not be in a dream.

Nothing you've said has invalidated my point. The formation of dreams is part of falling asleep; I never said they were one in the same, nor did I claim that phenomena besides dreaming weren't part of falling asleep.

the op asked if "that was all there was to it." i was merely pointing out that a successful transition from sleep to dream is also required, and while most of the time will automatically happen, it may require effort and or conscious techniques for some people and in some cases.

for example, here is a thread where the poster is having issues transitioning:
http://www.dreamviews.com/f79/why-am...ioning-108472/

and there are 4 stages of NREM, not 3.

Poor example. The reason the OP in that topic isn't being successful is likely because she's trying too hard to transition. If she relaxed, and stopped forcing things, she might have better results.

Also, there are only three stages of NREM sleep: N1, N2, and N3. At one time, N3 was split into stages 3 and 4 but recent studies have shown they're really one stage. Seems you aren't as knowledgeable as you'd like to think.

Originally Posted by Mzzkc

Poor example. The reason the OP in that topic isn't being successful is likely because she's trying too hard to transition. If she relaxed, and stopped forcing things, she might have better results.

Dammit man, I'm just trying to point out an area where people have issues, including myself. If she needs to relax, then that itself is part of her practice she needs to work on. I have seen tons of threads on here where people seem to be asleep and are still unable to enter the dream, it has happened to me myself. I suppose the implication of what you are saying is if you are "falling asleep properly" just to be patient until you normally transition into one of the other stages, but many, including myself find it difficult to wait around that long, though I do and will continue to try.

I have had much better results visualizing movement to step into a dream.

Originally Posted by Mzzkc

Also, there are only three stages of NREM sleep: N1, N2, and N3. At one time, N3 was split into stages 3 and 4 but recent studies have shown they're really one stage. Seems you aren't as knowledgeable as you'd like to think.

I'll admit when I am wrong. I had not heard of them combining stage 3 and 4, and many sources still do not. I guess they hadn't caught that wave (from 2007 apparently) either.

Non-rapid eye movement sleep - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I was just trying to answer the OP's question. Let me say that we both agree that "Transitional techniques can be helpful, but are by no means necessary to WILD successfully."

You are obviously a gifted and knowledgeable LD'er Mzzk, though many of your responses here are a bit acidic. Pardon me for asking questions or debating. I am going to unsubscribe from this thread now and wish all the posters peace and many pleasant luicds.

I apologize if my posts came off as flammatory; it was not my intent. I was simply debating against the idea that transitional techniques are a fundamental part of WILD.