Thread: why's this not working anymore?

Hey guys. I found out about CANWILD- waking up an hour before sleep via an alarm which turns itself off, not moving and DEILDing- about ten days ago. The first day I tried it, I woke up, thought I'd woken up too early and set the alarm (it's my calendar notification on my Blackberry) half an hour forward. I woke up then and went straight into a LD. It was short- a few minutes long- but as it ended, I got my first dream chain DEILD, which was interrupted by my alarm to go to school.

I've been trying since then and it seems either I get the timing wrong or I don't wake up.

I've also tried FILD and got a lucid from that at around 5 hours after I fell asleep (woke up naturally) but it ended really fast and I forgot to DEILD.

I go to bed around 11 and wake up at 7, so should I start going to bed at 10 instead? That's what I did when I got my first CANWILD. Also, should I set 2 alarms- one for FILD and the other for the CANWILD?
....Or, should I stay up till 2 AM or something and immediately try FILD as I'll be tired? Then it's 5 hours sleep till 7, which I've heard doesn't make you feel tired.

Also, when I was younger I had regular natural DILDs. Just spontaneous. I never had any reason to think I wasn't awake. But now I can't naturally DILD at all? Just wondering what this means.

For your first post, I think that the best timing and also the method DEILDing is only something you can find yourself. Look at your successful attempts and compare what you did then to what you do now. I am sure you can find something is different, not only what you did but also how you did it, for example bedtimes, amount of stress in your life, and even your own question, just look at how many alarms you used then and know that you can be successful with that, but feel free to experiment of course.

For your second question of why you had regular DILDs from time to time but that stopped now, but you struggle a bit with it now.
My theory is that you as a younger child just was interested in dreams but wasn't so concerned about the result as you are now.
I had the same problem, less than a year ago actually, and what I did was to do the methods I thought was entertaining to do (I use meditation and I like to meditate myself to sleep). But the point here is that I perform a lucid dreaming method or induction because it is fun and not primarily in order to lucid dream.

Use the method don't let the method use you. And remember that what's most important for succes with lucid dreaming is not what you do, but what you think.

Another good approach is to let go of the idea of the goal of lucidity completely and replace it with the goal to learn about the practise of lucid dreaming as a science or atleast a quest for knowledge.

That way you can observe instead of judging the attempt and you can find joy in learning from the attempts by appreciating the unsuccessful attempts as well.

Don't hope or try, instead learn and observe and this will in a calm matter take you torwards mastery and understanding.

Originally Posted by MasterMind

For your first post, I think that the best timing and also the method DEILDing is only something you can find yourself. Look at your successful attempts and compare what you did then to what you do now. I am sure you can find something is different, not only what you did but also how you did it, for example bedtimes, amount of stress in your life, and even your own question, just look at how many alarms you used then and know that you can be successful with that, but feel free to experiment of course.

For your second question of why you had regular DILDs from time to time but that stopped now, but you struggle a bit with it now.
My theory is that you as a younger child just was interested in dreams but wasn't so concerned about the result as you are now.
I had the same problem, less than a year ago actually, and what I did was to do the methods I thought was entertaining to do (I use meditation and I like to meditate myself to sleep). But the point here is that I perform a lucid dreaming method or induction because it is fun and not primarily in order to lucid dream.

Use the method don't let the method use you. And remember that what's most important for succes with lucid dreaming is not what you do, but what you think.

Another good approach is to let go of the idea of the goal of lucidity completely and replace it with the goal to learn about the practise of lucid dreaming as a science or atleast a quest for knowledge.

That way you can observe instead of judging the attempt and you can find joy in learning from the attempts by appreciating the unsuccessful attempts as well.

Don't hope or try, instead learn and observe and this will in a calm matter take you torwards mastery and understanding.

Thank you very much for your advice. I think I'll just keep using the same bedtimes and alarms as I used the first time I used the technique, instead of adding extras.
While I would love to learn about lucid dreaming as a science of sorts, I also have other motives- revisiting my first ever lucid dream from ten years ago, for example. I'd also like to try turning every dream into an episode of an epic fantasy storyline, transforming into some sort of monster, etc.
I have tried meditation and I did quite enjoy it, but I prefer doing it lying down. From your other posts I've seen, I gather that you WILD without WBTB? Do you meditate for that, and do you lie down or use the lotus position (I think that's what it's called)? I would love to use a method which is actually fun to do. How long does it take you, on average?

Haha you read my mind, in fact that is exactly what I do. I do prepare myself with the help of a guided meditation from Robert Monroe though.

But then when it is over (after about 40 minutes) I just sit in silence. After that preparation I have both set my intent, relaxed my body and mind and entered a meditative state. So from there I actually don't really think about time, or anything at all for that matter, I just sit and sleep consciously until I find myself in a dream.

And one thing to note, even though I remember entering it consciously, it's not often that I maintain the awareness all the way through, often I just experience an incredible aware and vivid non-lucid dream and then suddenly realize "Oh right it's a dream". So in a sense I do a very advanced form MILD, or WILD in order to DILD.
I have gone away from using a specific way to WILD or a specific way to DILD, I just consciously sleep in order to do what ever method that fits the situation.
Which makes it a strategy game which is fun, for example if I wake up I DEILD and if I can't DEILD I WBTB.

I don't want to scare you with times, because it barely feel like time passes at all, but based on the days I timed my attempts I would say that I meditate for more than an hour, perhaps all the way until the first REM which is 90+ minutes. It sounds extreme but it isn't, because conscious sleep isn't more extreme than unconscious sleep.

This is why I now stress the importance of having fun, because it's more enjoyable and time pass by quicker when you have fun.

It's not a success every night, but more often than before. But sometimes I am just too tired so I fall asleep unaware as I do my preparation.

Although I think I have found a way to solve that problem and that is to take a 30 minute nap and then wake up and start the preparation.

That sounds very interesting... So does meditation count as sleep, in a way? I'll see if I can find this guided meditation that you mention, if not, I may or may not try some binaural beats again. I've actually gone into SP with them before but I didn't release what it was! I would use isochronic tones instead but they only go down to a certain brainwave frequency or whatever it's called, which I don't think would be much help.

I've read that all you should do when meditating is observe your thoughts, and try not to think of anything. I've also heard that you're not supposed to try at all, and just let your mind do what it wants, but I think I would fall asleep that way.

Anyway, I'll give meditation a go and set my alarm for the CANWILD as a backup.

My idea of it all is that if you do a method that you think is effective, but don't do it because it is effeftive but because it is fun.

Then the practise of lucid dreaming will be fun and effortless.

Note that binaural beats are not inducing the mind state, it have just helped me learn to induce the state. So it only works if you let it, just relax and don't force it.

For starting out with meditation I would recommend just focusing on a mantra, like your breath or a word.

And just focus on keeping your awareness on your mantra. However keep in mind it's not a practise of concentration. You don't learn meditation by concentrating on the mantra, you learn it because, as you will notice, there are going to be many different obstacles along the way such as stray thoughts, emotions, physical sensations that will break your concentration, and you have to learn to not judge the existence of them and instead ju observe the existence of them and calmly return to your mantra.

This is what you are practising, the art of observing instead of judging. This will in turn lead to deeper states of consciousness and better concentration skills. But as you meditate don't hope or wish for that experience, instead just allow what ever that happens to happen.

Namaste

I tried meditation the past two days and I've started questioning things in my dreams more- not yet becoming lucid but it's definitely helping

You should write down all the things that you question in your dreams at the end of your personal DJ entry, this will raise your awareness, and I believe it will cause your mind to realize that you are looking for things to be off. This should cause a DILD. It seems to help me a lot. The rest of my advice is listen to mastermind ^^ he is wise in this subject

Last night I downloaded some Alpha isochronic tones with rainwater to my phone. I just listened to it through headphones and relaxed. Within a few minutes, I felt slightly detached from my body- as if waking up and staying still, you don't want to move. The feeling grew stronger and stronger over the course of the next 40 or so minutes- it was a ten minute track and it restarted about 4 times, but I lost track of time. It felt pretty good, and I had partial SP a few times, also the feeling of an electric shock or something, but not unpleasant (I read on some of those astral projection forums that this is energy). I fell asleep as some point, and did not have a lucid dream, although I woke up at 3 AM. Unfortunately I moved, ruining a DEILD chance, and then failed to do a FIlLD. I didn't want to try meditation again at that time so went back to sleep.

I'm definitely going to do it again tonight though.

BrandonBoss, I'll start DJing again if it does raise awareness. I stopped as I thought it was only about recall, which I have never had an issue with.

Sounds great sramsay12. You should keep in mind that everything in the world is energy, so what they mean when they say that this is energy, is that it is a non-physical energy in this case manifestiing in the physical as an electric sensation.

I take it that it's a good sign then?

I used to try binaural beats with little effect but these isochronic tones seem to do the trick. I'll do a review in the Lucid Aids section sometime.

Yeah seems like it However what do you mean that you didn't want to "try" meditation and just go to sleep?

Meditation IS sleep, but conscious sleep. It should feel just as effortless as going to sleep unaware.

Imagine a feeling of a peaceful and relaxed mind, or just close your eyes and imagine yourself smiling, that's the sort of feeling a meditative state is like.

Or an even more simple explanation is that you stop thinking, judging, worrying and just are in a state of peace and relaxation.

So you see if you "try" to attain this state you are actually prventing it. I know it is a weird concept to grasp, but try to do the imagined smiling and see if it can help.

Sorry I understand that you ment "didn't wanted to do meditation. I just want to erase the illusion of making meditation difficult that our semantics create.

Well, it doesn't quite come naturally for me and I doubted I'd have much success without the isochronic tones, which I didn't want to listen to at 3 AM. I also just felt like going to sleep- if you meditate through the night, do you still feel rested as you would when sleeping? is it possible to remain aware through the night and still "wake up" as if you had slept?

I downloaded some new iso tones, such as "Void". I've heard of "void meditation" before and it sounds very intriguing, also helps massively with lucid dreaming.

My main goal is still the lucid dreams, but this meditation stuff gets more interesting the more I think about it, especially after last night- I didn't remain aware for that long, not long enough for a dream, but it was quite enjoyable. I remember getting irritated for a second when the partial SP kicked in as my heartbeat got really loud and fast, as I thought it would stop me from dreaming, but then I remembered that I should just let it happen and don't put in any effort.

After about half an hour I had also noticed I was breathing through my nose, slowly- something I never do normally.

The tones are there to help guide you through the process and help you do it naturally.

When we are awake we are in the beta state, as we relax we go into the alpha, this can be a interesting experience for many of us, so exciting that I see many memebers misstaking some sensations from this stage as the transition stage of dreaming (And it seems like you were in the middle of this stage). The next stage is theta, here we are on the treshold of awake and asleep and hypnagogia can occur. Then we enter the delta state and here is the transition stage into the dream and later on also deep sleep.

The reason many people is frustrated as the try to transition into the dream, is because it feels like they are going to succeed, but nothing is happening.
This because they are in the alpha stage and can not yet distinguish the different states of mind, this will be learned by practise and experience though.

I knew about the brainwaves already, but doesn't delta mean deep, dreamless sleep? what would be the best brainwave for meditation? I heard that when Zen masters meditate, they are in Theta.

I've also heard about Gamma, although many lists of brainwaves don't have Gamma in them. Apparently it's a different state of awareness altogether- it mixes REM sleep behaviour with extremely heightened awareness and extreme focus and concentration. Is this a good thing? I don't understand the concentration thing very much, as you say that it's about relaxation- which I believe as well- yet I keep reading about focus during meditation from other websites.

Anyway, I quite enjoyed the Alpha isotones, I might get Theta ones to listen to straight after.

Sorry if I'm dragging on and on here, I'll start a separate thread for isotones if it's getting too tedious. Thanks for all the help and advice, though and for introducing me to meditation

It's your own thread about how to make things "work", so I would say we are still on topic.

And I don't mind that you ask, because when I answer you I have to become aware of my own mind, knowledge and my own experience, so by answering you I reflect and learn as well, so you make us both a favor by asking.

The best brainwave for meditation. Hmm... Well the best brainwave for intent is Theta, so that would make sense, and intent can in turn be used to whatever you desire.
So I guess theta is a good way to go for meditation.

Gamma seems really powerful, and perhaps it something you have to work torwards while you are in delta and who knows what happens here!

I have read lots of stories of unity consciousness and bigger understanding - experiences in this state, but I haven't done it myself so I can't comment on that.

A thing to note about focus and concentrations relation to meditation.

One important thing that you practise while you meditate, is to just be and not judge yourself, but you do this by practising on the obstacles that come up as you try to concentrate. For example let's say your mantra is to count, the practise is not to count from 0 and to 100, anyone can do that, the practise is to overcome all the obstacles that will come up as you count. You might suddenly think "Nah this is boring I hate this! I feel stupid", you fail if you focus on this thought and give in to the thought and perhaps even give up, you overcome the obstacle if you allow yourself to be above the thought and just observe it, in the beggining you can think "Ok that was a thoght, a negative one based on emotions, moving on", and later on this observing gets automatic.

So you know how to meditate, it's not difficult to understand, but to actually do it, is something you have to learn by doing.

And your welcome

Lucid dreaming was once a part of meditation, but now it seems like people see meditation just as a part of lucid dreaming.
And well I try to provide the other perspective because otherwise people miss the big picture, and by only living in their dreams, they are literally living in their ego.

By meditating they can understand that they are bigger than that, that we are bigger than that!

I guess that's all for me ^-^ I'll see you in the isotones threads, if you make one.