A little Confused about DEILDS

[Mystycal]

I don't usually post in this section, but I'm having a major dry spell and so am trying out new techniques. Up till now the DILD was the only thing that I had to do, just think about lucid dreaming during the day and then go to sleep and this would, a few years back, infallibly give me a lucid dream. Not anymore as it happens though So I read the guide on this forum for DEILD's but noticed it contradicts itself where it states that it is best to attempt the said technique when you wake from a dream - and then it goes on to say that you won't be able to enter a DEILD if you've just finished an REM period, which really confused me: if someone could clear this up for me it would be great Secondly, it seems like all that is required for a DEILD is to wake up and then lie there, remaining conscious, and a dream will always form. I find this very hard to believe; all my WILD and WBTB attempts so far have ended with me just lying there, fully conscious, for about forty or so minutes with no dream onset in sight. So is it really that easy?

[dms111]

If you wake up after a REM period a DEILD probably won't work. For a DEILD you want to briefly wake up during a REM period so when you return to sleep a few seconds later you go back into the same REM period. And it really is that easy because there is practically nothing you have to "do". What makes it hard is that it is so easy to mess it up. Too much thought or focus will wake you up completely. Too much movement or an outside distraction can also ruin it. all my WILD and WBTB attempts so far have ended with me just lying there, fully conscious, for about forty or so minutes with no dream onset in sight. So is it really that easy? just lying there, fully conscious, There's your problem. You are completely waking yourself up and then preventing yourself from falling back to sleep. Remember this: A WILD attempt should only end in two possible ways. The first way is success. You consciously enter a lucid dream. The second way is failure by falling unawares into ordinary sleep. If you find yourself laying awake for a long period of time it's because you are too awake or too focused. Remember that being aware and being focused are not the same thing. Awareness is what you want. Focus is not.

[Mystycal]

Thanks for the reply. I cannot wake up and be aware and unconscious at the same time! It looks like this is indeed my problem. I can see no way of being aware without being focused. Any suggestions?

[Sensei]

An anchor is something that is unique to you that keeps you conscious while letting your mind go around. Something you can think about without using too much thought. I like doing DEILDs after LDs because it is easier to lay still. It only takes a minute at most to give up. You should lay completely still and it should just form around you. It is crazy.

[Mystycal]

Can you give me an example of a good anchor? I also find that when I try to not think about anything my mind automatically starts going into overdrive, heheh. A bit unuseful for meditation and lucids and suchlike :/

[Sensei]

I use my mantra. Lebarge 's book has a lot of techniques for WILD. Most of them are anchors. Like a lotus floating near your throat that has a small flame in it. It is just enough detail to keep your mind occupied (if you are good at visualizing) but not enough to keep you awake. http://www.dreamviews.com/f79/why-you-fail-wilds-96892/ http://www.dreamviews.com/f79/wild-a...advice-137628/ Two things that helped me with WILD and DEILD. Of course check up sageous guide for WILDs. Just curious, what DILD technique do you use and what was your consistency?

[dms111]

Learning to WILD involves learning that it is possible to be conscious and asleep at the same time. I know this sounds like a contradiction, but it's only a contradiction of words. Words are never perfect. And "being asleep" is a fluid process. It's not black and white/either awake or asleep. I'll try to explain what I mean by awareness and not focus. I'm sure you've heard of using anchors during WILD attempts. A common one is counting. When you begin counting you will be focused on the counting and that is ok. You need focus to get the ball rolling. But if you maintain your focus on the counting you won't fall asleep. So as you are counting you want to try to slowly let go of that focus. Let your mind start to wander a bit. If you completely stop counting then it has wandered too far. No problem, just start counting again. This cycle could repeat itself a number of times. Eventually you will reach a point where you are still counting but not focused on the counting. The counting will seem automatic and your mind will be able to wander while simultaneously maintaining the count. As long as you are in this state you will be aware but without focus. This is the state of mind that allows your brain to trigger sleep. But if you realize you're in this state of mind before sleep is triggered you will be thrown back into focus mode and kept awake. The trick is recognizing you are in that correct state of mind just as sleep has been triggered, not before. To make things even more confusing all the real work is done at a subconscious level. You don't actively make any of this happen beyond the initial counting. This is why it's so hard to explain to some one exactly how to WILD. It is not something that you make happen. All you can do is set yourself up mentally to be aware at the correct moment. But you won't recognize that correct moment has come until it has already passed and you've either succeeded or failed. This is only my interpretation of the process. WILDing is highly personal. It only makes sense once you experience it. Others will explain the process in a completely different way. There are countless ways of doing it right, which means there really is no right way of doing it.

[slash112]

I'm quite passionate about DEILD, it's a great wee tech. One thing you could think about trying is autosuggestion. Repeating stuff to yourself to keep it in your head. Like, as you are falling asleep, you could be telling yourself "I'll wake up in the middle of a dream and I won't move a muscle". So it' the last waking thought in your head, so when you wake up, you should either remember saying that to yourself, or at least your subconcious could take care of it. Also when you do wake up, repeating to yourself that you're about to go into a dream and that you will remember it's a dream you're going into. Keep repeating it, then by the time you're in the dream you're still thinking about it, so still conscious. You can check out my (old) DEILD tutorial here if you want. Bit embaressing for me lol, but the I'm fairly happy with the info in it.

[Mystycal]

Just curious, what DILD technique do you use and what was your consistency? First off, thanks for the links, I'll be sure to read them As to address what DILD technique I used, well, I was about thirteen or so at the time I first learnt about lucid dreaming, didn't really read up on any techniques as such but made questioning reality all the time a habit. It just came naturally to do that. And then BAM, before I know it, the first night that I want to LD I have a lucid dream. Then on the next one too. The following one also. I actually had about six of them on six consecutive nights, and then, you know, being an immature kiddo, got bored of it as if it was some old toy. I made an actual attempt to stop lucid dreaming which worked after about another two nights of lucids. I just used to go to sleep normally and become aware in the dream Nowadays it's difficult for me to comprehend how stupid I was that I took LD's for granted. Regarding dms111, thanks for the tips. I have found that on my WILD attempts I do indeed, when I count, catch my mind wandering off and even though I'm still counting, I do it almost subconsciously, so I always make sure to get back to the counting wholeheartedly. Now I see that's not what I'm meant to do at all The annoying thing is that I always seem to regain consciousness before the dream sets in when I try to WILD, but I'll guess if I'm tired enough after a while it will work, right? I think I need to try that on the weekend though to avoid much sleep loss Also, I'll try the autosuggestion slash, even though it doesn't seem to work for me with much else. Like, if I tell myself, "I always lucid dream" as a mantra, I know that I'm lying to myself, and I think that negates the effect, but I'll try your suggestions, they seem pretty neutral.

[slash112]

Also, I'll try the autosuggestion slash, even though it doesn't seem to work for me with much else. Like, if I tell myself, "I always lucid dream" as a mantra, I know that I'm lying to myself, and I think that negates the effect, but I'll try your suggestions, they seem pretty neutral. Ah, see the difference is that telling yourself that you'll lucid dream is a really vague statement. And not a technique in itself. Autosuggestion is indeed great for MILD, but for some folk can take a lot of time before effects show. For DEILD on the other hand, you're simply using it to remind yourself of what to do when you wake up, rather than what to do when you get in the dream, and when you're doing the actual DEILD, you're using it to remain conscious rather than to plant a memory to be brought back in a later dream.

[Mystycal]

Ah yes, I see the principle for it working now. You use it to condition your waking self and not your dreaming one, which can be very ignorant of any kind of suggestion at times Would, "I am aware in my dreams" be a better mantra?

[slash112]

Well, for using autosuggestion to affect yourself in-dream, you want to be a lot more specific. As for the difference between "I always lucid dream" and "I am aware in my dreams", there isn't really a difference because your brain knows they both mean the same thing. You can use what you're already doing, it greatly affects your self-belief. But you'll additionally want to be going for stuff like "When I'm in a dream, I'll start thinking about stuff, I'll look around me and I'll reality check". The fact that it's so specific (and long) means that when you're saying it to yourself, you're heavily thinking about it, therefore reinforcing the memory/thought that's being planted.

[Mystycal]

Everywhere I have looked so far it has said that you want mantras to be as short as possible though But I don't see a problem with using that one as well as what I'm doing now

[slash112]

I heavily disagree with that. A short mantra just means you're hardly paying attention to what you're actually saying to yourself. In fact, I think mantras should be long, and change often (like, use different wording each time, because then the mantra is coming from your head rather than just muscle memory) Anything related to lucid dreaming, you'll want to be putting as much concentration in as possible if you want good effects. However, I still say you can do what you're already doing too, because it does help with self confidence, and thats a great thing to go along with it.

[Sensei]

I keep my mantra to have visual part as well. Telling yourself that you will LD is a vague statement, but it isn't if lucid dreamis that image of you realizing you are in a dream. Super charged visuals and feelings and sights of when you become lucid. Every word is a schema. Make "lucid" one with meaning. This is what I do. it has worked well for me. I started this year taking all my knowledge and putting all my confidence in my DILD and WILD ability. Like you, I started LDing, but I only had one the first try and forgot about it (I got married) it came back a year later with a LD that made me want to get back to it. Go at it like you used to, the mindset that it is easy and you are good at it. Use a mantra that works for you. Experiment with them. Any more questions pm me.