Thread: WILD with no prior sleep??

Everywhere I have read says it is impossible to have a WILD without combining it with a WBTB.If I were to try this, how long would it take? Would I have to lay in bed for as long as it takes to get to your first REM period? I have tried to let SP come on naturally before, t the point where I am having muscle spasms and can no longer feel my body, but I know that I would Be able to voluntarily move if I wanted to. How do you tell if you have even induced SP? Please reply ASAP

Here is a link to a link (linkception!), but anyway a link to one of my explanations to WILD and it's relation to the mechanism of the brain and awakenings.

http://www.dreamviews.com/f79/starti...0/#post1979719

But I wll start to say that it is possible to WILD without a WBTB, it is however a really hazy dream because the cholinergic system (basically one of the system of the brain that makes you dream) is really low in activity so the dream wouldn't be as vivid. This is not fact though, it's just a theory.
And well to make the illusion of sleep paralysis simple. If you are in sleep paralysis -> You are dreaming.

So if you induce a state where it feels like you are a little numb and some mild vibrations, but then reality check and think that you are in sleep paralysis, but then see that you are aware and that you can't transition into the dream, well then that isn't sleep paralysis but actually relaxing sensations of your own physical body.

Beginners often confuse these two, and this makes them think that they are close to the dream transition but they feel like they never can succeed the transition.

But well it's really simple, unless you have the sleep disorder also called sleep paralysis (confusing yes...), your body wont paralyse itself before you already are dreaming, becuase that wouldn't really be the most effective thing for the body... So look at the link I gave you and let go of the idea of gonig from:

Relaxation to sleep paralysis to dreaming, because it's only one step: Relaxation to dreaming.

So if you want to learn by your misstakes by all means WILD before bed. But if you want to learn by others success, WILD with a WBTB.

There is however one thing that is positive about doing the WILD procedure before bed, and that is that it''s a very effective way to fall asleep to increase your chances of becoming aware in a dream, to DILD that is.

This because instead of gonig to sleep abruptly and fall asleep with all the stress and owrries on your mind, if you WILD you slowly relax your body and mind and when you eventually "fail" the WILD attempt and fall asleep unaware, you have increased your chanced of peaceful sleep which leads to calm and peaceful dreams that is easier to be aware of and remember.

So I go through the process of WILD every time I go to sleep, but not because I try or expect to succeed the conscious induction, but because I want to fall asleep peacefully.

I hope that clears some things up. And good luck!

***Moved to WILD***

Yeah, it's possible to WILD really at any time you can fall asleep at, people usually prefer WBTB though because it's easier for the most of them. I personally use WBTB and WILD naps, and both methods generally work.
Also don't aim for sleep paralysis, it's general misconception about WILD'ing, really you need to just fall asleep while keeping right enough consciousness to get into dream being lucid.

MasterMind,
I don't understand what you mean by the whole 'illusion of sleep paralysis' and the 'sleep paralysis disorder' thing. Can you explain?

Checker666,
What is the difference between a WILD nap and trying to WILD before bed? Wouldn't your sleep cycles be the same just as if you were going to bed at night? This has always confused me...

Originally Posted by swagmaster

Checker666,
What is the difference between a WILD nap and trying to WILD before bed? Wouldn't your sleep cycles be the same just as if you were going to bed at night? This has always confused me...

No. Your brain serotonin/melatonin levels are constantly changing over the course of the day. There are exactly 2 times in each 24 hour period when they line up perfectly to allow easy access to REM (and hence, easy WILD): the last few hours before waking up in the morning, and the middle of the afternoon. For a normal person, trying to WILD at any other time is an exercise in frustration. You're fighting brain chemistry.

I really wish you noobs would actually start listening to us resident experts when we tell you how not to do things...

It's rare but possible. I have had a two WILDs on accident during the first hour of sleep when "practicing" SSILD. REM is not a requirement for dreams. I have not been able to intentionally do this again. Both dreams were very odd and different than other lucids.

I see no harm in trying as long as you don't lose much sleep over it. I've noticed that you will get a lot of advice on this forum (some of it true and some of it not true) and while you will find great suggestions and information I have found that the best teacher is trial and error. Use caution but do what works for you regardless of what anyone says. Good luck.

Originally Posted by Xanous

It's rare but possible.

Anything is possible, but if you're talking to a beginner you shouldn't hinder their progress by telling them that it's ok to do the wrong things. I get that you're trying to be intellectually superior by pointing out that it's technically possible, but you're only doing it to make yourself look more "mature" and you're certainly not helping anyone.

The fact is, WILD at bedtime can work in theory but it's an uphill battle and it's hard enough for a beginner to have a lucid dream under the best of circumstances. Please, swagmaster, don't listen to people who tell you that there's "no right way to do it". There is definitely a right way.

Originally Posted by swagmaster

cmind,
So trying to WILD would be easier when taking a nap, or right before you wake up in the morning?

One or the other, it depends on whether you're the type of person that takes daily naps. If you are, they're probably about equal in terms of difficulty. If you don't normally take naps, then I wouldn't bother trying that until you're more experienced.

cmind,
So trying to WILD would be easier when taking a nap, or right before you wake up in the morning?

I don't understand your hostility and I find it very disappointing to read. But that is fine. I never said it was easy or that it was the ideal time to WILD. I don't like telling people they can't. I don't believe in can't. I thought we could have an open discussion but I'll let you have it. Thanks.

Swagmaster listen to cmind because apparently I know nothing. I've only been lucid dreaming for 7 years. I guess us noobs should just blindly listen to resident experts like cmind.

Easy,guys.

Hello ok sorry if it was a little unclear Sleep paralysis (body paralysation) is real and it does happen but it happens when we dream.

But let's answer the question with your grounds. And that is that a wave of sleep paralysis happens while we relax and then we can use that state to transition into a dream. And well even if I had accept that this was true, my point is that it's still a very contra-poductive state to look for, because when you are not used to the signs and sensations of the body's own relaxation, you will misstake normal relaxing sensations for the sleep paralysis.

And by doing that you will for example feel a mild vibrating sensations (sometimes even heavy) or some ringing in your ears or any other sensations that is assumed to be sleep paralysis. And that will lead to and already does lead to, hundreds of threads on Dreamviews about people saying "I got to sleep paralysis this night and I couldn't enter the dream pls help me!".

So even if sleep paralysis did happen before we dream, it would be very easy to misstake it for the body's own relaxing sensations, so you can end up very frustrated.

But now back to how it actually is in my experience and all the Dream Guides of Dreamviews <-- No authority argument, it's just to make you see that I am not alone with this view. Sleep paralysis happens when we already dream, and thereby already are in the dream. So why look for some paralysis when it's in facto really hard to feel it in an awake state, unless you have a sleeping disorder which is called sleep paralysis that people who act out there dreams in their sleep have for example, also called sleep walking.

And the illusion of sleep paralysis is that you think you are in your physical bed paralysed unable to move, but you are actually in your dream version of your room, perhaps being slightly aware of your physical body which affects the dream and makes you unable to move, but you are actually in the dream, so why waste time on trying to transition here when you already are in the dream?

I hope that I didn't made it confusing for you, if I did Ask again

Originally Posted by cmind

For a normal person, trying to WILD at any other time is an exercise in frustration.

I guess i am abnormal person then!

Originally Posted by cmind

One or the other, it depends on whether you're the type of person that takes daily naps.

And i haven't even had any napping time prior to when i started getting into lucid dreaming, and my first lucid dream was WILD, at completely random time.
I was just trying to be helpful and was talking from my own experience, there's always possibility of something working or something not working, everything worth a try.

Originally Posted by swagmaster

Checker666,
What is the difference between a WILD nap and trying to WILD before bed? Wouldn't your sleep cycles be the same just as if you were going to bed at night? This has always confused me...

Generally WILD'ing before bed is hardest WILD for most of people, even for me, i think because our consciousness is too tired then and/or is used to fall asleep at that point. During naps though REM often kicks straight from beginning, that's why some people go for them, but they do require some good balance of concentration usually. Though i have heard of some people who can WILD before bed naturally...

I have WILDed at my bedtime because of sleep deprivation, I basically started dreaming after a few minutes of relaxation.

I had been gaming att a friend's house and was 24 hours sleep deprived and thereby REM deprvied and my brain did a so called REM-Rebound.

Although it is nothing that I recommend, the dream wasn't enjoyable at all because of the fact that I was so tired. X _ o

Originally Posted by MasterMind

Hello ok sorry if it was a little unclear Sleep paralysis (body paralysation) is real and it does happen but it happens when we dream.

But let's answer the question with your grounds. And that is that a wave of sleep paralysis happens while we relax and then we can use that state to transition into a dream. And well even if I had accept that this was true, my point is that it's still a very contra-poductive state to look for, because when you are not used to the signs and sensations of the body's own relaxation, you will misstake normal relaxing sensations for the sleep paralysis.

And by doing that you will for example feel a mild vibrating sensations (sometimes even heavy) or some ringing in your ears or any other sensations that is assumed to be sleep paralysis. And that will lead to and already does lead to, hundreds of threads on Dreamviews about people saying "I got to sleep paralysis this night and I couldn't enter the dream pls help me!".

So even if sleep paralysis did happen before we dream, it would be very easy to misstake it for the body's own relaxing sensations, so you can end up very frustrated.

But now back to how it actually is in my experience and all the Dream Guides of Dreamviews <-- No authority argument, it's just to make you see that I am not alone with this view. Sleep paralysis happens when we already dream, and thereby already are in the dream. So why look for some paralysis when it's in facto really hard to feel it in an awake state, unless you have a sleeping disorder which is called sleep paralysis that people who act out there dreams in their sleep have for example, also called sleep walking.

And the illusion of sleep paralysis is that you think you are in your physical bed paralysed unable to move, but you are actually in your dream version of your room, perhaps being slightly aware of your physical body which affects the dream and makes you unable to move, but you are actually in the dream, so why waste time on trying to transition here when you already are in the dream?

I hope that I didn't made it confusing for you, if I did Ask again

no, I understand it now! Thanks!