Trouble performing the WILD technique

[Ocelot512]

Hey everyone. Some time ago I attempted to learn to lucid dream, but due to not being successful, I decided to give it a break. Many years have passed and now I'd like to pick it back up. I have attempted the WILD technique 2 nights in a row and it isn't working. I set my alarm to 5 hours after the time I assume I'll fall asleep, but I have realized that on both nights, I wake up naturally around 30mins before my alarm goes off. Nevertheless, I try to perform the WILD technique. I lay there completely still on my side or tummy and I feel completely relaxed, but my body is just not getting to the state where it falls asleep; I can't seem to get to the sleep paralysis stage. I would lay there for about an hour and nothing happens. There is also a problem with swallowing; no matter how much I fight the urge, I seem to involuntarily swallow. Do you guys have any tips to induce lucid dreams with this technique?

[Ocelot512]

I attempted the technique again last night. This time, I got to a point where it felt like my body was rocking quickly from side-to-side and then it switched to a bouncing sensation. I ended up swallowing and thought I ruined it, so I just decided to fall asleep and try again another time. Do the rocking/bouncing sensations mean I'm making some sort of progress? Thanks for the help!

[dolphin]

Ocelot512! Don't worry about moving or swallowing during the WILD attempt. Doing these things won't keep you from sleeping. The rocking/bouncing sensations are a good sign. They mean you're progressing towards sleep. The sensations can also sometimes mean you're dreaming. Try to remember to do a reality check if you experience sensations like this. Any type of reality check would do.

[Ocelot512]

Ocelot512! Don't worry about moving or swallowing during the WILD attempt. Doing these things won't keep you from sleeping. The rocking/bouncing sensations are a good sign. They mean you're progressing towards sleep. The sensations can also sometimes mean you're dreaming. Try to remember to do a reality check if you experience sensations like this. Any type of reality check would do. Thanks! Now I'm a little confused. Isn't the point to trick my body that my mind is asleep? And what are some reality checks I could do that wouldn't ruin my attempt?

[dolphin]

No, the point is to fall asleep and recognize the transition into the dream. To fall asleep, our body and our mind must be sufficiently relaxed. If there's any urge to move the body, it's better to just let go of that urge and move the body, because holding on to that urge can make the mind less relaxed. It's possible to move the body while keeping the body sufficiently relaxed. No reality check will ruin an attempt if it keeps the mind and body relaxed. It's best not to think any reality check will ruin an attempt. Thinking an attempt is ruined will only make the mind less relaxed. To recognize the transition to the dream, we must be aware of what is presently happening at that time. So, throughout the attempt we keep our mind on something that allows us to remain aware of the present moment. This is known as an anchor. This could be something like repeating a mantra, focusing on our breath, visualizing something. It's best to have something during the attempt to anchor your mind to the present moment. The anchor can double as a reality check in some cases. For example, if your anchor is visualizing something and the visualization becomes a dream, it can result in lucidity. During the attempt, it can be really tempting to think about sleep paralysis while it's not happening, or think about something related to succeeding or not succeeding like falling asleep, but it's best not to do this, because not only do these things take our mind off the present moment but they can also result in our mind becoming less relaxed. During the attempt try to only have your attention on your anchor while keeping your mind and body relaxed. Whenever you think you might be dreaming, do a reality check.

[Ocelot512]

I normally use an anchor. I usually count my breaths and after a while I start to drift off, lose count, and pick from the last number I remember. Most times I get to a point where I feel my limbs tingling and occasionally they have twitches. Also, I'm not sure if I've gotten to the hypnagogic stage. I've never seen colours nor shapes appear. After a while, I just see black or blackish-grey stuff moving; they basically blend in with the back of my eyes. I'm not sure if that was hypnagogic imagery.

[Sageous]

First, Ocelot, Listen to Dolphin, because he nailed it. Also, as sort of an aside: Now I'm a little confused. Isn't the point to trick my body that my mind is asleep? If you read this in a book, then I suggest throw that book away. If you read it on the internet, then I suggest you don't ever go on that page again. If you were told this by a person, then I suggest you smack that person upside the head. This is the kind of bad information out there that ruins the hopes of so many beginning LD'ers; save yourself from it. You cannot trick your body that your mind is asleep, and even if you could, your body really wouldn't care, as the falling asleep process is a physiological function that normally has enough power to eventually pull you into sleep no matter what your mind is doing. Also, your mind is part of your body, especially in this process, so tricking your body is akin to tricking your mind as well, which can't bode well for a successful WILD (mostly because your trickery will probably lead to your mind actually going into sleep mode as well). If you can come to understand that all of the facets of a WILD -- body going to sleep, mind staying aware and focused, all that noise, the dream itself -- all of them, are You, with no opposing forces or things to be tricked, you will probably have a much easier time learning to WILD. WILD isn't about tricks or techniques; it is about you learning to maintain your waking-life self-awareness, your presence in the moment, as you fall asleep. This runs in defiance of our nature (we're not supposed to be awake while we're asleep), so it will take time and practice to train your mind and body to flout those rules consistently... there really are no shortcuts. [EDIT] I missed your post above while I was writing, and now I feel compelled to add this: there is no need to "get to the hypnagogic stage." Indeed, I'm pretty sure there is no hypnagogic stage, as it is just the stuff that happens every night during the falling asleep stage of sleep. I have had many a successful WILD without any hypnagogia at all, and so can you. The same goes for SP as well; it's all just a bunch of distracting noise that is best left ignored, or just casually acknowledged as markers on the way to sleep, and your dream (the only thing you should be trying to get to).

[Ocelot512]

Thanks Sageous. So are you saying that I shouldn't worry about not experiencing hypnagogia and sleep paralysis? How then would I know if I'm making any progress?

[Sageous]

Thanks Sageous. So are you saying that I shouldn't worry about not experiencing hypnagogia and sleep paralysis? Yes. How then would I know if I'm making any progress? Sleep comes and your dream starts. Seriously. It's that simple. You fall asleep every night; why now do you need to be worrying about its process? Stay focused on your dream and on your self-awareness, allow your body to go about its business as it always does, and sleep and your dream will be much easier to reach. Sure, use hypnagogic imagery (HI) as a signpost that you calmly notice as you pass it if you'd like, or use it to help you form a dream should your WILD transition leave you without a proper adventure; but don't complicate your WILD dive by looking for HI or SP, or struggling to get to them. Also, worrying about anything is a problem in WILD, because it leads to distraction that can nix your transition. The best example of this simplicity is DEILD, which is a form of WILD. DEILD works most perfectly this way: When you realize you are waking, set your mind to remember/hold onto the dream you are in, stay focused on that dream as the waking process begins, then go right back to your dream as sleep resumes. There was no need to look for HI, or SP, or anything else; just a simple transition back to sleep and dream. And DEILD is arguably the easiest form of WILD -- possibly, perhaps, because there is no need to be distracted by the noise that might accompany the transition. I'm not sure when the noise finally outranked just falling asleep in discussions about WILD, but it certainly has (I blame the internet). If you can manage to unlearn all the breathless stuff -- and generally useless techniques -- that have been attached to HI and SP over the years, I think you will find your WILD transitions much easier to perform.

[Ocelot512]

I'll bear those stuff in mind. And yes, all over the internet people make it seem like one should expect sleep paralysis and hypnagogic imagery. Could you please provide me with a link to a good tutorial?

[Sageous]

Well, you can always try my DVA WILD Class, which you can find here. DV's WILD tutorial is pretty good, too, and you can find it here. Also, if you haven't gotten a copy of LaBerge's Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming, you should try to find a copy, and read it. As long as I'm here, there are a couple of good threads here describing, or perhaps clarifying, SP, that you might want to check out: Sleep Paralysis Demystified Sleep Paralysis Explained Why You Should Forget About SP Good Luck!

[dolphin]

Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming is available online for free in pdf form: https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/613...51b6a7dca5.pdf In some of Laberge's WILD techniques, he says to wait for the sensations of sleep paralysis or hypnagogic imagery. But while this is done, the main focus of these techniques respectively are to focus on the bodily sensations or to observe the visual images that appear. It's important to let go of worries or concerns because these can interfere with sleep.

[Ocelot512]

Thanks Sageous and Dolphin!

[DarkestDarkness]

Never really been bothered about the sleep paralysis thing too much, though there have been some times when the body gets all sort of tingly, which is interesting in its own way, but I probably incorrectly set that as some sort of personal benchmark which I have felt the need to "achieve", since typically it would only happen after a long time (like 1h+), so I think I made that into some sort of measure of progress. Now realising based on Dolphin's and Sageous' comments that maybe that wasn't the best idea. I've also always had the thing with the swallowing and always found it to be distracting. I think that I let a simple worry like that detract too much from my attempts at WILD but it was very helpful reading the comments here, so I should really just try it again with a different mindset. And like Dolphin says, my primary source for WILD methods was from LaBerge, which is fine, but in retrospect I do think that I might have focused on the wrong parts.