Thread: Am I right in thinking this?

Isn't it true that all dreams of are of equal vividness and that induction techniques just helps an individual gain awareness in that state?

Originally Posted by Origami

You can't really attain lucidity. There is no magical level where you suddenly become aware and know "I'm dreaming, I can do what I want lololol".

There is, but it's not magical, that's your classic DILD. You can achieve it through being sceptical about reality (eg. reality checks, ADA) and this will carry over into your dreams where you may get the epiphany of realising you're dreaming.

But instead becoming lucid is more like taking your dreams, and making them vivid enough to make reality? Where you dream normally, but if they get to a point where they are so vivid and you can feel them almost as reality, then you can easily figure out which is reality and which is dreaming?

Making your dreams more vivid will result in a DILD being more likely, but vividness often is more of a product of stabilising and control techniques once you are already lucid.

I'm not sure I full understand the question, what do you mean by "magic level."

It's usually easier to become lucid during an extremely vivid dream, but you can really become lucid at any part of the dream, regardless of clarity.

Dream vividness can help with lucidity but it does not by any means guaranteed a lucid dream. Lucidity with in a dream atleast vision wise can be hazy or clear. Its your awareness or thoughts that must be clear and vivid not so much the dream environment. I wouldn't call lucidity a magical momment but honestly sometimes its damn near close, its more like a light bulb goes off where u remember that your physical body is still sleeping. yes sometimes weird things in the dream can set u off but its more likely you'll accept it as normal reality. It all goes back to your level of awareness the sharpness of your thoughts your trying to activate your critical mind while your body is asleep.

Originally Posted by Origami

You can't really attain lucidity. There is no magical level where you suddenly become aware and know "I'm dreaming, I can do what I want lololol".

But instead becoming lucid is more like taking your dreams, and making them vivid enough to make reality? Where you dream normally, but if they get to a point where they are so vivid and you can feel them almost as reality, then you can easily figure out which is reality and which is dreaming?

Its not a question of how you can get there, its a question of how you can make "there" appear?

There is no 'magic level' to attain lucid dreaming. However, there is a 'sweet spot' that exists between Theta and Delta brainwaves where LD's exist. Lucid dreaming is a precarious balance of consciousness not unlike a tightrope walker. A tightrope walker leans to much this way or that way he is going to fall. A lucid dreamer becoming to aware, or losing awareness, will either wake up or fall back into deep delta sleep. With much practice, just as a tightrope walker must practice, you can learn to extend your lucid dream experience.

Am I right in thinking this? You can't really attain lucidity. There is no magical level where you suddenly become aware and know "I'm dreaming, I can do what I want lololol".

Wrong. Lucidity is real and it's not magical. Doing whatever you want is hard and takes practice though. We grow up and learn what reality is and what is and is not possible. Although how can you be sure anything is possible until you've experienced it by yourself? Those are the vibes I get from your post.

I know it's hard since you haven't had your first Lucid yet, but if you keep on trying and try to stay positive, you will have one.

At least you all understand that it's hard. My perception of what "lucid" is is different to you. When I said magical, I meant golden or "that magic moment". You know, not magical as in fake, magical as in not normal.

This is what I think lucid is. Not just a dream that you suddenly realize is a dream, then fun happens. I think its a dream you construct, to be vivid, real and convincing. Thats lucid for me.

Originally Posted by Origami

My perception of what "lucid" is is different to you.

there's that crux.

you're re-defined a word for your own uses, and then called others wrong for using it incorrectly.

the correct definition is "aware." lucid dreaming is when you are aware that you are dreaming. that is the sole definition. I believe you're confused in both departments.

Originally Posted by no-Name

there's that crux.

you're re-defined a word for your own uses, and then called others wrong for using it incorrectly.

I never said anyone was wrong here, you made that up. I'm stating how I perceive it, saying that I'm telling everyone else is wrong is wrong.

Originally Posted by Origami

I never said anyone was wrong here, you made that up. I'm stating how I perceive it, saying that I'm telling everyone else is wrong is wrong.

sure, you've only implied that others are wrong, but you never said it.

but you redefined a word. you're using that word incorrectly to meet your own standards.

the definition is correct in your standard.

it's just a battle of dictionary definitions, which are silly battles.

I never implied anyone else was wrong. So to you, stating my perception of a concept is saying "Everyone else is wrong because I see it this way"?

Look at the title, I say "Am I right in asking this?" not "I am right, here is what we should all think".

Look, I'm not some random new 12 year old jackass coming on here after a month saying I know everything now. I don't. If you look around you can find posts where I have contributed or asked for and gotten advice. I merely state me thoughts here, so people can discuss, and you label it as me telling everyone there are wrong. No wait, sorry, Implying everyone is wrong.

Originally Posted by Origami

I never implied anyone else was wrong. So to you, stating my perception of a concept is saying "Everyone else is wrong because I see it this way"?

Look at the title, I say "Am I right in asking this?" not "I am right, here is what we should all think".

Look, I'm not some random new 12 year old jackass coming on here after a month saying I know everything now. I don't. If you look around you can find posts where I have contributed or asked for and gotten advice. I merely state me thoughts here, so people can discuss, and you label it as me telling everyone there are wrong. No wait, sorry, Implying everyone is wrong.

alright, let's re-do this. let's say I never said you implied we were wrong. (that's a hell of a sentence.)
could you respond to the rest of the post, instead of just being defensive?

you're re-defined a word to meet your standards. right?

Okay. No, Imo, I did not redefine a word to MEET MY STANDARDS. (Not shouting). I redefined the word and term lucid to fit how I perceived it in my mind, and I posted this topic to get other peoples ideas on this, hence my Title.

You come on and think that I was saying/implying everyone else was wrong, but that could not be more wrong. You assumed that, or mis read/ mis understood me.

Hows that?

when I say "the sky is red" I'm implying that it's not blue. I'm implying that everyone that thinks it's blue is wrong.
but this is from my perspective, so I'm pretty fully aware that other people think it's blue. so if I'm aware of this, why would I need to ask if I was right in thinking it was red?

which is what you're doing, right?

If you think the sky is red, then that is you. To other people it is blue, or obviously blue, but thats a different matter, the sky is proven to be blue, etc etc.

Lucid dreaming to me is what I said. I stated it, but I never said "lucid dreaming is this" or something like that. You could take it like I am saying it like that, as you did, and I understand that, but I never said it IS this, or I AM right, or what I'm saying IS true.

If you are sure yourself of what lucid dreaming is to you, then why does it bother you so much that I'm wondering what people think of my perspective on it?

Originally Posted by Origami

If you are sure yourself of what lucid dreaming is to you, then why does it bother you so much that I'm wondering what people think of my perspective on it?

I was actually going to ask the same of you. what's the point of this thread if it's simply your perspective?

As I mentioned before, to get peopled opinions. Notice how every sentence in my post ended with question marks?

I got people who thought I was wrong, or that I had mis understood the term lucid. Thats fine, that's their opinion. That's theirs, I posted mine. Only you have had problems accepting that I posted my opinion.

As I mentioned before, to get peopled opinions. Notice how every sentence in my post ended with question marks?

I got people who thought I was wrong, or that I had mis understood the term lucid. Thats fine, that's their opinion. That's theirs, I posted mine. Only you have had problems accepting that I posted my opinion.

Originally Posted by Origami

I got people who thought I was wrong, or that I had mis understood the term lucid. Thats fine, that's their opinion. That's theirs, I posted mine. Only you have had problems accepting that I posted my opinion.

it just doesn't click with me that people can be comfortable with their opinions but still want feedback on it in this way.

but sure, it makes more sense to me now.

I think it's silly because I don't think of my dreams as reality in nearly any sense of the word. I also think it's silly because I no longer have a word that defines my awareness that I'm in a dream.

I'm not exactly comfortable with my opinion of lucid. I believe it makes more sense to me, but I posted it to see what other people thought of it, so I could maybe get a better idea of the whole concept.

To me, lucid is a dream that is sculpted to be more vivid and enter-able. To other people (the majority lol) lucid is when you wake up in a dream, etc etc you know.

Right now, I'm downing apple juice because I heard it boosts dream vividness, and thus you are more likely to become aware, or at least have a cooler time with it. Like last night for me was me, in my avatar picture, really vivid. Hell yes.

Originally Posted by Origami

You can't really attain lucidity. There is no magical level where you suddenly become aware and know "I'm dreaming, I can do what I want lololol".

Sure there is, in a DILD. Example: I discipline myself to perform a reality check whenever I enter a car, and make a habit of really doing it every single time I enter a car. Result: I enter a car in a dream, perform my reality check (or more than one), and realize that I am dreaming. Lucidity is dreaming while knowing while dreaming.

But instead becoming lucid is more like taking your dreams, and making them vivid enough to make reality?

Dream vividness is one thing, and lucidity another thing. I've had very vivid non-lucid dreams, and very lucid non-vivid dreams.

Where you dream normally, but if they get to a point where they are so vivid and you can feel them almost as reality, then you can easily figure out which is reality and which is dreaming?

No clue what you mean.

Its not a question of how you can get there, its a question of how you can make "there" appear?

I really think you haven't fully understood what lucidity is, but I might be wrong. It has nothing to do with dream vividness.

To me, it has everything to do with vividness. Sure, you can have a lucid that is not vivid, but you can make a dream very vivid, and that becomes lucid. Not through only being vivid, thats silly, I mean so vivid that you can easily do a reality check, etc.

"I really think you haven't fully understood what lucidity is, but I might be wrong. It has nothing to do with dream vividness."
Thats your opinion man, and this is mine.

And what I meant by magical level, if you had perchance read one of my later responses, is that point where you drift off but remain awake, or when you enter a dream but remain aware. To me, I doubt there is that point. Maybe point is better than "magical level", but I addressed that before.

I also see lucidity as something you can measure because in the sense of the words lucid dreaming means Aware dreaming. Not being aware that you are in a dream. There should be another term for that imo. But that's only needed for those who can not identify one word with two meanings.

I've had one dream wich i consider an "official lucid dream" because it was very different from all my other dreams. Not only did the whole landscape have a glow, i had a sense of direction and experience, i brought the dream into my now moment. While all my other dreams seem more like a movie this one happened while i was right awake, i had a sense of time and this dream lasted an hour. All my other dreams are merely timeless fragments in my memory. There was no reality check or anything in this dream by the way it just started lucid. I wasn't lucid enough however to remember to do something else in this dream other than free-flight.

Originally Posted by Origami

To me, it has everything to do with vividness. Sure, you can have a lucid that is not vivid, but you can make a dream very vivid, and that becomes lucid. Not through only being vivid, thats silly, I mean so vivid that you can easily do a reality check, etc.

Yes man, i think this is true. I mean, i don't know what u mean by more vivid. But when you have more epic dreams that stand out from day to day life i think DILDs will be much easier.