Thread: Sleep cycles restart every awakening

So I learned in my psychology class that every time we wake up, even for a split second, our sleep cycle returns to stage 1 of 5. This contradicts the WILD approach which says we are supposed to wake our selves up as close to the stage 5 REM cycle as possible. Just wondering if this changes things. Any explanations or comments?

This from a website:

The Sequence of Sleep Stages

It is important to realize, however, that sleep does not progress through these stages in sequence. Sleep begins in stage 1 and progresses into stages 2, 3 and 4. After stage 4 sleep, stage 3 and then stage 2 sleep are repeated before entering REM sleep. Once REM sleep is over, the body usually returns to stage 2 sleep. Sleep cycles through these stages approximately four or five times throughout the night.

On average, we enter the REM stage approximately 90 minutes after falling asleep. The first cycle of REM sleep might last only a short amount of time, but each cycle becomes longer. REM sleep can last up to an hour as sleep progresses.

I'm not gonna go into details, but I'll explain why we aim to WILD after at least 4.5 hrs of sleep.

Every sleep cycle has 5 stages - 4 NREM and last one is 1 REM and the whole cycle is about 90 min long. In first cycle of the night, NREM is about 80 min long and REM about 10. So its possible to have a lucid already here, but you would have to get lucid pretty much from the beginning of the dream to have any decent length. And, if you were WILDing, you would have to stay aware through 80 min of NREM to finally get to REM.

In every subsequent cycle - NREM gets shorter and REM longer. Until after 4,5 hrs of sleep, in next REM cycle, NREM is much shorter, so you have to stay aware through shorter time.

And you have to stay aware even shorter, if you are closer to the morning, or taking a nap. Because during a nap, our body knows that it just went through all sleep stages, including the deep sleep in NREM, that is so important for regeneration and health, that it starts the sleep in REM almost from the beginning. Of course, a short falling asleep of NREM stages has to be there, but it's really short.

Yup, that is pretty much it. So when attempting to WILD, we are supposed to have consciousness while quickly going through our NREM until we enter the REM stage?

Originally Posted by Hunterkiss

Yup, that is pretty much it. So when attempting to WILD, we are supposed to have consciousness while quickly going through our NREM until we enter the REM stage?

Exactly.

So how can I recognize that I'm entering REM stage when I try to wild with WBTB technique? Also, do you just fall asleep when you enter REM to proceed with the WILD?

Or even tell when we are entering Non-REM sleep from wbtb?

You are entering a non-rem after WBTB right away, as you start falling asleep. While in light sleep, you can be still having rational thoughts. And when you wilding, you can be having them even longer, past the light sleep.

I'm not really sure what occures when in the sleep process.

Here is a post by Mzzkc about sleep stages http://www.dreamviews.com/wake-initi...ml#post1916072
something about what stage do vibrations and HH happen http://www.dreamviews.com/wake-initi...ml#post1916645
more here http://www.dreamviews.com/wake-initi...ml#post1937684

These are all from one thread and the whole thing is a good read. It's about SP, but it explains a lot about sleep stages.


For me, and for many others, HH are a sign of a dream being very near, just minutes, or even seconds away, depending where in a process you are.

At the beginning, if I have visual HH, I just watch the back of my eyelids for some fog swrling around. I may get some bright lights, or some geometric patterns. Or single images, that may form into photographs. At this point you are practically watching your dreams form. And for me, when they start to move, I know the dream is ready and I'm watching it as a movie. All I have to do is think "I...am...there" while looking at any spot I chose in the dream. That transfers my consiousness inside the dream while still aware.

If I get audio HH, which is very rare for me, I know I'm entering a LD, when I hear loud sounds by my ear, like a wind roaring through a wind tunnel. Or any other intense sound. At this point I kinda push my head into the pillow to initiate a feeling of falling backwards. But at this point I'm already in a dream as well, so I learned just to stand up from my sofa right into the dream.

Before all this, I sometimes get vibrations, and those can be another sign. When that happens, I just watch carefully if I start to see my room. Because if I do, I know I'm in a dream already, since my eyes are closed.

have you guys seen this wild by sageous? WILD Very detailed, excellent tutorial.

To the last question - yes, when you enter REM and a dream is ready for you, you should fall asleep. If you don't, it's hard to keep awake, keeping the dream going and not waking up. So the timing should be perfect. You should fall asleep no sooner, and no later, than when dream is ready for you to enter.

Oh, and here is http://www.dreamviews.com/wake-initi...ntry-wild.html

Please ask if there is anything else we can help with.

Hi Gab! I am sure that I have read that information before but some how forgot since I seldom go for regular WILDs. Thank you so much for posting that detailed explanation just when I need it most to actually sink in! If something goes wrong with my WILD even in the late morning, I tend to give up and go to sleep. It sounds like I should give it another go if I feel like it, especially when I am later in the sleep cycles when NREM is shorter.

I tried early this morning around 6am, felt I was just about to transition into the dream but my wife moved. I tried to convince myself that it was just HH's and attempted to float but I could feel I was awake and sure enough I was. Unfortunately I decided to go back to sleep without trying to retain consciousness.

Originally Posted by fogelbise

Unfortunately I decided to go back to sleep without trying to retain consciousness.

You are welcome!

Unfortunately, sometimes the urge to just roll over and go to sleep is too strong for me to continue. But, I have gotten lucids just seconds even after I just turned to my side and decided to just go back to sleep. So even then, not all is lost.

Sometimes it's hard or even impossible to keep your focus on WILDing through some distraction. I guess it depends on how far in the process are you and what's your state of mind. It happened, that I was able to keep the advanced HH going, while I moved my arm to protect my chest from a cat that was about to jump on me in WL and not lose focus. But other times I have given up and lost focus from much lesser distraction.

But yes, if you feel like continuing, it's a good idea to give it another try. Since the body is already in highly relaxed state, all you have to do is get your mind on board and watch for any signs of a dream.

Happy dreams

Originally Posted by gab

It happened, that I was able to keep the advanced HH going, while I moved my arm to protect my chest from a cat that was about to jump on me in WL and not lose focus.

It is great just knowing that other people have success in such situations! I guess it is too easy to hold onto negative expectations when "x" happens, even if only subconsciously.

Originally Posted by fogelbise

It is great just knowing that other people have success in such situations! I guess it is too easy to hold onto negative expectations when "x" happens, even if only subconsciously.

The funny thing is, you know how sometimes people say that they get LD after they give up? Well, there may be truth to it. I guess it happens, when we are trying too hard to get a LD, but that doesn't work, because we trying too hard. But when we "give up", that "trying" goes away, but our intent is still there, we just not thinking about it actively.

I got one of my classic OBEs that way. I gave up on WILD attempt, because it was taking too long and I felt nothing. So I turned to my right side, and I literally told to myself "well, I'm just gonna go to sleep". In 5 seconds, I realized I'm looking at my ceiling from 12 inches away. I wasn't ready for it, so that was it. So from now on, when I tell to myself that I'm just going to sleep normally, I just chuckle to myself in secret thinking "yeah, right, but I'm still paying attention for any signs of lucid or obe."

Thing is, anything can happen at any time. Don't expect anything, but be ready for everything. It's like telling your mind "go ahead, surprise me".

I guess I have had a few DILDs after giving up or possibly more zoning out but the intent still there. I also had one where I turned over to a more comfortable sleeping position and fairly quickly started slowly rotating out of my bed like an astronaut in space and into a dream.

Originally Posted by gab

Thing is, anything can happen at any time. Don't expect anything, but be ready for everything. It's like telling your mind "go ahead, surprise me".

That is some of the best info I have seen anywhere wrapped up in just a few sentences!! Is there a good way to bookmark that on this site so I can remind myself of gems like these? Thank you Gab

Wow. Sounds like I was *almost* there last night. I started seeing the shapes and my trademark static then vivid color than storm drain image turning around abruptly in my head. (I will go into greater detail in my workbook later on to find out about whatever this thing is.) I felt like I was falling into the final stages, so I imagined a door in the darkness and tried to see if I could open it. As the thought of "I'm going to go lucid!! I've done a WILD first try!!" set in my heart started racing and I fell out of it. It sucked big time.

Almost ready to give it another try tonight. Wish me luck!

Originally Posted by Brizzl

Wow. Sounds like I was *almost* there last night. I started seeing the shapes and my trademark static then vivid color than storm drain image turning around abruptly in my head. (I will go into greater detail in my workbook later on to find out about whatever this thing is.) I felt like I was falling into the final stages, so I imagined a door in the darkness and tried to see if I could open it. As the thought of "I'm going to go lucid!! I've done a WILD first try!!" set in my heart started racing and I fell out of it. It sucked big time.

Almost ready to give it another try tonight. Wish me luck!

The images and falling sensations sure sound like you were just seconds from a dream, if not already there. The heart racing is quite common for me, even when I don't get excited. It's probably a natural thing that happens when we start to dream. If it happens next time, acknowledge it and know, that it's normal.

To not get excited - that is much harder to do. But it can be done. Try telling yourself to stay calm, you will celebrate and get excited later, after the LD.

Also remember, when in darkness, you can make yourself see. For me what works the best is to say something, as if I was seeing normally. Like "oh, look, it's so beautifully sunny outside". As if I already saw it. Thats when my vision comes back, little by little.

You can also try just opening your dream eyes, prying your eyelids open, taking the sunglasses off, ...

Oh, and congrats to your great attempt!

Learning new stuff and I've only been back on the website for a few minutes! Thanks Gab for that information and thank you Hunterkiss for asking it.

Originally Posted by Superadam051

Learning new stuff and I've only been back on the website for a few minutes! Thanks Gab for that information and thank you Hunterkiss for asking it.

Haha. Welcome back! And thank YOU for reading it. Happy dreams

I seem to be always dreaming, whenever I'm asleep. I can fall asleep, at any time of the day or night, during any section of the sleep cycle, and I will begin dreaming straight away. This happens when, according to science, I am experiencing NREM and therefore most likely not dreaming. I have experimented with this, waking myself up or being woken up by another person, shortly after falling asleep for the first time of a night, and I remembered my dream. If I take a nap at any time, I will also begin dreaming immediately.

Does anyone else get this?

I'm not an expert, but it seems to me, that you are having more dreams in NREM than most of the population. Or maybe you just tend to remember these dreams better than rest of us. If you lacked NREM, I believe that would negatively reflect on your overall health, since NREM 3, the deep sleep is needed for our health.

Here is some good info about that Non-rapid eye movement sleep - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia