Thread: OPEN BETA - Open beta TWOTLD - Day 4

For those just joining us, start here...

http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...d-dreamer.html

http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...r-day-0-a.html

http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...r-day-1-a.html

http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...r-day-2-a.html

http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...r-day-3-a.html

Short read today, but we make up for it tomorrow

Chapter 4 - Alternating Reality

“What I want to do is travel deep and deeper into the dreamlands...” - Charles de Lint

In the last chapter, we found two outliers with a story about getting out of bed, climbing stairs, and taking a shower nestled between them. The story turned out to be inconsequential, as we were interested in the outlier events. In lucid dreaming, outlier events commonly revolve around either the moment of falling “asleep” or the moment of waking up. Not only are these the outliers of dreaming, but we’re beginning to get hints that these may be outliers of consciousness as well.

So what happens if we start exploring the outliers a bit more boldly? This is where we get adventurous. The dream has given us various clues, and now we begin to put them together. In false awakenings, the dream has us move from outlier to outlier, over and over and over again. It’s as if the dream wants us to be accustomed to two crucial moments, two crucial realities. The dream wants us to thoroughly experience and explore these two extremes, so it swings us back and forth between them. Is there something to be found alternating between these two realities? We know that a strange thing begins to occur when we repeatedly (falsely) awaken. After the final awakening, when we reenter the physical world, we are left with a nagging feeling. A curious state of consciousness begins to arise, even though we’re awake, which starts to pull us out of our routine ways of being. New eyes are beginning to form as we look at the world from different perspectives. Those fixed qualities of our minds that prevent us from waking up in the dream, that prevent us from questioning or seeing, start to become more pliable. We become suspicious. We’re almost waiting for something to happen that will wake us up again.

We’re being trained to see, and the dream is a gentle teacher. Having been swung back and forth by the dream a few times during our false awakenings, we discover that the process can be kind of fun. We just gently swing between two states and a new awareness begins to take shape. But what happens if we start pumping our legs? What happens if we swing higher?

Exercise 4a: Alternating objects

Pick an object and look at it from the point of view of the physical world. When you look at the object, know that it is solid and real.

Pick a different object and look at it from the point of view of a lucid dream. When you look at the object, know that it is made of dream stuff.

Repeat these steps, alternating back and forth between points of view for a wide variety of objects. Explore tiny objects, large objects, and everything in between. Continue for 10-15 minutes.

Exercise 4b: Alternating Reality

While standing, fully experience and create the state, “I am awake in the real world.” Once this state is felt for a few moments, experience and create the state, “I am lucid in a dream.” When you feel lucid and have adopted the point of view of being in a lucid dream, begin walking and explore the dream with wonder.

After a few moments of exploration, stop and recreate the state, “I am awake in the real world.” Once this state is recreated and fully felt, go back into the dreaming point of view and continue exploring with wonder. Take a walk, alternating back and forth between these realities until you feel complete.

End of Chapter 4. All text (c) C.A. von der Mehden, 2014.

I feel like these exercises are going to be fairly difficult for someone who doesn't have any experience with their dreams. I've had a few LDs and for me it's pretty challenging to convince myself or get in the right mindset of things being dreamlike, but I guess maybe with practice it would get easier. It's pretty disorienting switching back and forth between reality and "dream" but I think it's a neat exercise. I'm curious though what exactly these exercises are supposed to do to help with LDing? Maybe you could explain that a bit more to expand the chapter some, unless it's something that will be explained in the next chapter.

Originally Posted by Fuzzman

I feel like these exercises are going to be fairly difficult for someone who doesn't have any experience with their dreams. I've had a few LDs and for me it's pretty challenging to convince myself or get in the right mindset of things being dreamlike, but I guess maybe with practice it would get easier.

That's part of the reason I started with "realer than real". You don't need to have become lucid in a dream to just get really interested in and amazed by an object. Then when you add in the concept that all reality checks can ultimately fail, we're slowly creating the lucid mindset. By day 4, I'm hoping that a non-dreamer will have a pretty good idea of what lucidity feels like. Then on day 5, we find out what we're actually doing. In theory, we should be able to build the whole thing from scratch, because as someone pointed out in yesterday's thread, we already have the pieces somewhere in consciousness.

Can you say anything else about the experience of disorienting? When did it begin, how long, did it go away, etc? I believe that too is part of the process. It tends to happen very quickly in a lucid dream, but there's a certain amount of disorientation and reorientation that occurs. I think false awakenings are reflections of that.

These exercises don't have to be done one at a time either. After you know them, do a minute or two of one, hit the desired mindset, go to the next, hit the desired mindset, and then you can start the new one already at a lucid "peak".

Originally Posted by cvdmehden

Can you say anything else about the experience of disorienting? When did it begin, how long, did it go away, etc? I believe that too is part of the process. It tends to happen very quickly in a lucid dream, but there's a certain amount of disorientation and reorientation that occurs. I think false awakenings are reflections of that.

It happened after a few tries of switching back and forth between reality and "dream". I was fully trying to convince myself during the dream part that it really was a dream and that I was actually just sleeping. Then I switched back to reality and I think just a thought came into my head that confused me like "am I in bed or is this real?" like my brain didn't exactly know what was going on either. It went away pretty quickly, and I only practiced a few more switches after that. I'll try the exercises some more later today and see if I experience it again.

Originally Posted by Fuzzman

It happened after a few tries of switching back and forth between reality and "dream". I was fully trying to convince myself during the dream part that it really was a dream and that I was actually just sleeping. Then I switched back to reality and I think just a thought came into my head that confused me like "am I in bed or is this real?" like my brain didn't exactly know what was going on either. It went away pretty quickly, and I only practiced a few more switches after that. I'll try the exercises some more later today and see if I experience it again.

Cool, my only suggestion in the first exercise would be to not worry about anything other than how you're seeing the object. See the object as part of a dream without worrying about implications or where you are or whether or not you're sleeping. Just see it as a dream. Then see the next thing as real. If you're mind is busy thinking and getting confused, it's pulling you away from seeing the object. Let it do it's thing, then return to alternating how you see the object.

Oh sorry I guess I should have been clearer, I was talking about the second exercise specifically, when I was up walking around and switching between dream state and reality. The first exercise didn't have any effect like that and was actually pretty fun imagining the objects being created by my mind and then imagining them as physical objects.

Ah okay, same basic idea applies though. The mind likes to take over, but just keep focusing on the two realities and have fun

It makes me feel weird when i try to understand that an object, or rather that all objects are made of atoms and ultimately thus are of 90% empty space. That gets me in alternate state of consciousness for sure. I feel rather confused really to be quite honest with you!

Originally Posted by Dthoughts

It makes me feel weird when i try to understand that an object, or rather that all objects are made of atoms and ultimately thus are of 90% empty space. That gets me in alternate state of consciousness for sure. I feel rather confused really to be quite honest with you!

I tend to avoid going to the atomic scale. When you're looking at an object, just consider it a dream rather than real. See something unknown, perhaps an illusion, rather than something you already know.

I really can't! This was the only method which worked for my brain. Hehe!

I already consider life a dream so i guess that The unknown factor here is that i see a solid object, yet, objects consist of (mostly) empty space. Therefore, reality must be quite illusory as well! Atleast on the surface that is. That's just how I see it =)

I do not think that it is unwise to appeal to the masses a little bit more regarding looking at things on the atomic scale. Just a little bit can't hurt. It certainly makes more sense to me to look at it this way. Though i see where you are coming from. You probably didn't need to mention atoms to explain anything while you where in India either.

Anyone else test day 4?

Yes. I normally try to just go with "this is a dream" a little disorienting switching back and forth. No LDs last night. Loooooong night of awesome dreams though.

Did some 4a. Due to waking circumstances couldn't do much more than that. Recall low due to little sleep and dreams were fairly normal.

The alternation is an interesting concept, as is the false awakening (reverse and forwards) idea.

4a produced some strange effects on me. I followed the exercise, picked different objects of different sizes and tried switching my mindset between them. I don't really know when it began or for how long but before I knew it everything kind of reversed. Imagining a real world object felt like I was dreaming and trying to picture something real, and imagining a dream object seemed to make everything around it dissapear. I know that's a bit confusing but I'm still kinda confused by what happened during the test.

Originally Posted by nymeria

4a produced some strange effects on me. I followed the exercise, picked different objects of different sizes and tried switching my mindset between them. I don't really know when it began or for how long but before I knew it everything kind of reversed. Imagining a real world object felt like I was dreaming and trying to picture something real, and imagining a dream object seemed to make everything around it dissapear. I know that's a bit confusing but I'm still kinda confused by what happened during the test.

When that happens, you're very close to the intended effect of the exercise, nice!

I'm a tad confused here! Did nymeria do excersise 4a or a mix of 4a and exercise 5 (dreaming an object) ?

Originally Posted by Dthoughts

I'm a tad confused here! Did nymeria do excersise 4a or a mix of 4a and exercise 5 (dreaming an object) ?

That sounds like 4a. After you do it for a few minutes, a change starts happening.

I notice there is no Day 5 on the forum, yet Dthoughts refers to an exercise 5; has this program gone private?

Originally Posted by Sageous

I notice there is no Day 5 on the forum, yet Dthoughts refers to an exercise 5; has this program gone private?

http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...r-day-5-a.html

Originally Posted by Sageous

I notice there is no Day 5 on the forum, yet Dthoughts refers to an exercise 5; has this program gone private?

Jealous?



Good exercises, don't you think? As a lucid noob I am so glad to have read all this.

(thanks cvdmehden!!)

^^ Thanks! Must've missed it; still curious, you know!

Hmmm... Interesting.

Day 4 exercise in depth:

I look at an object. I am dreaming... If I am dreaming than what is this object? It looks like a fence, but it is just a projection of a memory of my idea of a fence... Wierd.
I look at the same object this is real... If this is real, then what I'd this object? It looks like a fence, but it is just a projection on my mind taken from my eyes. 50% (random amount) probably is not even what I am seeing if I just pass by it like I would have had I not done this exercise, because of the "auto-fill" that minds normally do. In that case it would have been 50% what I was seeing, 50% dream matter.

What is the difference between seeing and dreaming? At one point, they are both just in my mind...

I then looked at my other senses... Sight is a long distance sense. I sit and close my eyes. I lift my hands I can feel it. It is my dream hands. Made of dream. I think of what it is... Similar to the fence. I set my hands down.

Lift them up I can feel it. This is real. I am feeling my real hands... the only difference is where the electrical impulse starts. I set my hands down.

Thought it was interesting. I continued in my own direction.

I imagine lifting my hands up (eyes still shut) this is real. I am actually lifting my hands. I imagine the feeling and the sight of it. I imagine setting them down.

I repeat this is my dream hands. I imagine that I lift them up in my face and pretend I can see them right in front of me. these are dream hands, simply a projection.

I set my hands down and go through my falling asleep and wild idea (just a mental exercise to help me WILD). Instead of working up from my legs, I forget my hands first. I lift them up and try to feel them I don't have arms, these are not here.

Still a strange thing for me to do. Mental exercises... In order to WILD and increase visualization, I "forget my body" because technically sleeping is forgetting your body and thinking up another one. i am strange, but it helps me WILD.

^^ Not sure "jealous" is the right word...more like "hopeful," and I want to see the rest.

The exercises are fine, though for me there's nothing particularly new as yet. But Day 5 looks promising; I'm glad I got a chance to see it.