Thread: When you fall asleep too easily and cannot do any technique

Have you tried sleeping in a position you don't usually fall asleep in? Like for example I find it 10x more difficult to fall asleep on my back, maybe opposite for you.

Yes ^^^. But also, this can be a HUGE advantage if you learn how to take advantage of it. One way is by using anchors, kinda like mantras. They are designed to pull you back into awareness once your're body is asleep. Check them out.

Thanks. It is my mind that seems to fall asleep before my body. So some anchors may help.
I've found that I'm a side sleeper, so I'll try sleeping supine.

Being able to WILD is being able to "feel" the right amount of awake and asleep. Should I apply more SSILD or more awareness? This will come with experience. Practice practice practice. Try and WILD as many times a night as you can if you want to get good at it. Make sure to practice DILD and WILD at the same time so you can compile experience from both.

I'll take another look at DILD. SSILD is sold as a magic bullet technique but I don't believe in magic bullets so I'll alter it any way that works.

Originally Posted by Avalokiteshvara

I'll take another look at DILD. SSILD is sold as a magic bullet technique but I don't believe in magic bullets so I'll alter it any way that works.

SSILD is really helpful, but useless alone. I would recommend changing it around in a way that works for you. Similar, but not the exact same. Exact same is never going to work, but it is a good starting point.

One change is being with one of the domains of sensation for 30 seconds or more is too long. I need something a little quicker and something cognitive. If I miss a beat, I just go into that fog of sleep rapidly.

Originally Posted by Avalokiteshvara

One change is being with one of the domains of sensation for 30 seconds or more is too long. I need something a little quicker and something cognitive. If I miss a beat, I just go into that fog of sleep rapidly.

That is why you change it. Make it 15 second cycles instead (first thing I changed when I started doing it was this, it hardly resembles itself anymore now when I do it)

Sounds like you changed it in other ways too.

Yep. My technique is for my mind. You can get ideas from it, but by copying it 100%, you will never be able to do what I do 100%. You can only do your own thing 100%. Ssild is a good way to start with practicing falling asleep, but you should still do something for recall, something for awareness, and keep a good sleep schedule. Ssild is a helper, but without prior experience or work during, it is useless. Try to break something down in a way that makes sense to you and lose what doesn't make a difference to you. Search for the feeling in between asleep and awake, not a technique for it. The tech will guide you to the feeling.

I think Cosmiciron's claim of helping other to achieve lucidity nearly 100% of the time is not due to SSILD being a magical technique (it does do a sort of priming and high recall effect that other techniques don't do so much) but because he was able to take one technique and tweak it for others just right until they could take it in personally. This obsession with finding the perfect acronym is absurd. I think that there are generally two main ways to lucid dream: prospective menory techniques: such as MILD, and direct ones: WILD, DEILD, SSILD...
I feel that we use the basics until they stop working, then we begin to break the rules and tweak them with constant experiments, without losing the essence of the way the technique works to achieve success. I have an extensive background in meditation and it is taught that you cannot actually teach meditation. You can only teach the basic guidelines to point to it and one must achieve contemplation personally.

Here's an example of my new way to MILD, and yes I got this idea from SSILD but I got tired of having to do it a structured way:

When first going to sleep, napping, and the 1-2 WBTB moments at night, practice WILD technique:
-find position, such as supine, where I do not go to sleep quickly.
-bring attention to breathing and body sense: relax and let go into sleep.
-move attention to hearing and visuals to move into the sense of hypnogagia.
-Move between the breath/body, hearing/visuals intuitively.
-moving to the body seems to anchor just enough to not fully sleep, but also to let the body go and relax just enough. Moving to the vision/hearing senses appear to move into the between waking/dreaming states. Moving like this seems to tweak things until I get the feel of moving into sleep and dreaming intentionally.
-There are no time frames or numbers of times to cycle. It goes by intuitive feel. Such as when feeling losing focus too much, move back to body. When too awake and identified with the body, move back to the facial senses.

Originally Posted by Avalokiteshvara

What are some ways of keeping yourself awake enough to control drifting off into sleep? My usually favorite techniques of SSILD and WILD are not working these days because any lapses in an intention to keep myself awake will cause me to fall asleep within a minute or even 30 seconds. First I lose focus very quickly, then I just sleep. It's as if that just before sleep state overpowers my intentions no matter what.

Other people have had this problem on this board too. What are the solutions?

I would just like to add one thing--often your body will give you cues that you are about to fall asleep. For instance, I always notice my breathing becomes deep and regular, even if I feel wide awake. At this point I know sleep is imminent, even if it does not feel like it. From here, for instance, I may decide to drop my mantra (if I am MILDing) and allow it to continue in the background (sort of like an echo) and allow myself to fall asleep. But I may also decide to rouse myself, and do another cycle of affirmations if my intent (and my echo) feels too weak. If this is too much, psychologically, to handle, I may try to WILD. But this is an example. Basically, this:

Originally Posted by Sensei

The tech will guide you to the feeling.

This statement alone needs to be stickied.

Sensei has given you the best advice possible, which is to take these techniques and make them your own, and to let them act as guideposts. Your insight about meditation is absolutely correct. No experiential knowledge can ever be taught; you have to experience it and make it work for yourself. This is the basis of all esoteric practice You have been very active on these forums, however, and seem dedicated to getting it right. I'm sure you'll be successful. Just keep practicing and asking questions.

I have had several dozen LD's since I began practicing it several years ago, it's just extremely inconsistent. I'll have a good week, then no LD's for months. I think following the standard guidelines is not helping anymore.

Thanks 3cat.

Yeah, avalo...
SSILD does seem to point you to knowing what you need.

The standards need to be taken down and replaced.
Practice your technique every night. (Your technique will morph and change, but it needs to be consistently done)
Practice remembering dreams every day.
Sleep consistently as much as possible.

It is being consistent with these 3 things that will make you consistent.

I also fall asleep while attempting WILD. Of course there should be practice, practice, practice!
I read in one website that one should observe the sleeping process and shouldn't avoid it. I did it once and it worked. but the next time I felt bad and very bored. Maybe it works for you. In this way, you should be aware of feeling of drowsiness and observe how you slowly fall asleep.then you will find your body sleep and your mind awake.
Good luck

maybe this will help ? http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...then-wild.html

Originally Posted by acillis

maybe this will help ? http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...then-wild.html

Oh, so this could serve as replacement for WILD Anchors?
Whenever i would lose consciousness my eyes would suddenly re-center and it would jolt me back awake (Since i'd be still in light sleep cause it would take way way longer to enter deep one after losing consciousness).
And when that happens and they re-center i would just turn them back into corner.
And repeat the process till i feel wild transition?

Also this technique has worked for you nicely?
Am i correct?


Oh man, i just feel as if i found masterpiece for wilding
I don't know if it will work or not but i'm just too excited that it might actually work
And my motivation was just slowly dropping for WILDing

Thanks mate
You've got me up :

His technique mixed with BillyBob's Tutorial if it would actually work for me might give an ultimate wild technique.
OH MAN I MIGHT SOUND LIKE AN TOTAL IDIOT BUT I THINK I HAVENT BEEN THIS HAPPY SINCE YEARS LO
Even if it won't work then atleast my motivation level is back to it's highest.
Once more cheers mate

Originally Posted by acillis

maybe this will help ? http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...then-wild.html

I tried this technique with combination of watching shiny dots behind the eye lids and it was GREAT! It was the first few times I experienced SP without falling sleep! But it should be combined with WBTS. Although it wasn't a full WILD experience, but it took me to a very deep trance which is ideal for self hypnosis.

Do you just do the eye technique once until your eyes center and you fall asleep? Or do you repeat it?

Originally Posted by Avalokiteshvara

Do you just do the eye technique once until your eyes center and you fall asleep? Or do you repeat it?

Hi,

You should do the technique till you reach 'Rem Atonia' or 'Dream World'. (Unless your person who likes to transition from RA directly then just wait for dream world to pop up, it's simplest way i guess?
*By Transitioning From Rem Atonia i mean doing stuff like 'Rolling Out Of Body', 'Imagining Sensations', 'Daydreaming', 'Visualizing Dream Scene', 'Grabbing Dream Scene or Object From It' or just 'Forming Your Own Scene' using HH stuff.

So if during wild your eyes suddenly re-center themselfs then return quickly them back to where they were before (right or left side).
It is quite possible to get more than one lose of consciousness during wilds before reaching your objective.
And i can suggest you one more thingy aswell:

Don't choose same eye direction in a row when performing EILDS
If you were during yesterday's attempt having eyes in direction of left then tommorow choose direction of right
I'm not sure if it's possible but our eyes could get used to being on specific side as they fall asleep and stop from re-centralizing themselfs
Author of technique suggested me it while private messaging Being cautious about such things wouldn't hurt i guess
Switching eye direction with every attempt should confuse your body enough to not bother with this stuff
And if you practice technique with WBTB then it results in extra confusing too (Since at night you would fall asleep naturally without doing the tech?).
Yet if your body would get used and would start to fall asleep without re-centralizing then i guess you'd need to stop attempting this tech for few days or weeks before your body would re-centralize again.

I can't give an answer better than what MisakaMikoto did.
So I only add my experience. In my case, after moving the eye to the corner and then re -centering challenges for some minutes, I reach to a state where I am very relaxed but in trance state. Then I stop eye challenge and start to look at the shiny dots behind my eyelids to create shapes to enter them.

Actually, moving the eye to the corner is a big step to pass the border between wakefulness and sleeping. When entering the SP, then you don't need it anymore and you should start to create your dream scenes.