Thread: Ready to give up. Again.

Some of you may remember I posted this a few months ago. I've tried everything. Reality checks before bed and during the day, binaural beats ( which I had some success with when I was able to remember a few dreams at the beginning of the year ) and Celea Z. I didn't really feel any different when taking Celea Z. I took two capsule before bed and nothing. Are they meant for WBTB? I'm considering making a dream inducer device or downloading an app. Are there any good cheap apps for IOS seven IPhone 4s? I could dream so much (or at least I think I did) when I was younger. How can I get dream recall back and have my first lucid?

Start simple. Try recalling three words that have something to do with what you dreamed. You are dreaming but not remembering. Just aim for a few words related to what you were dreaming. Do this in the first few seconds of waking. After a few days try to imagine what those words had to do with the dream. Then try to remember a scene or two. Work up your recall in steps. By focusing on it your brain will decide it is important and it will be more active during dreams. They will become more intense and easier to remember.

You mean for lucidity or only dream recall? Either way, reality checks, binaural beats and drugs are far from trying everything. The latter two are especially not necessary. Dream recall is definitely not hard to build, all you need to do is lay still with your eyes closed after you wake up, and try to remember what happened earlier. Think of familiar places and people, which are the most likely to appear in our dreams. If you get something, try to remember what happened before that, build the dream from the end towards the start until you have a scenario. Also, stress and poor sleep are detrimental to both dream recall and lucidity, try to reduce stress and sleep better if you have those problems.
As for apps, yes there are tons of lucid dreaming apps, many are free, but very often they are not shortcuts to lucidity. Lucidity has prerequisites like dream recall, memory, self awareness, intention, expectation, etc. You can try one of those apps, but if you don't have the fundamentals down, chances are the apps aren't going to be very useful.

Originally Posted by DragonSword

Some of you may remember I posted this a few months ago. I've tried everything. Reality checks before bed and during the day, binaural beats ( which I had some success with when I was able to remember a few dreams at the beginning of the year ) and Celea Z. I didn't really feel any different when taking Celea Z. I took two capsule before bed and nothing. Are they meant for WBTB? I'm considering making a dream inducer device or downloading an app. Are there any good cheap apps for IOS seven IPhone 4s? I could dream so much (or at least I think I did) when I was younger. How can I get dream recall back and have my first lucid?

Hey DragonSword, maybe you're expecting too much too soon and not really laying down a good foundation of the basics.
I've been trying to LD for over 2 years and have had similar frustrations as you feel. My lack of success has caused me to give up for a while and resort to trying supplements and binaural beats etc.

What I have learned now is that the best way is to "do it naturally", but that means learning a difficult skill.

I also try to play the guitar (badly), but I know that even if I had the dedication, it would take years to get even half decent at that!

Lucid dreaming is similar, for most, I'm afraid. It's not that it's "difficult". Many on here say it's easy, and it is, exept if you find it hard!

I liken it to walking a tightrope. There is a very fine balance between dreaming and waking. Too much awareness and you wake, too little and you dream (not LD).

Stressing about failure has a bad effect on the learning process.



I recently had my first "natural" LD for over a year, but one thing that did help was using Galantamine, because it gave me some self-belief.
I had always woken up after just a few seconds of entering my previous natural LD's (mostly DEILD or WILD) and got so frustrated that I could not stay in longer.
None of the techniques described here seemed to work.
Even my first goes with Galantamine were the same, but then just a few months ago I had my first long LD (about 5 minutes), and since then I have had a couple lasting 10-20 minutes.

So after 2 years I finally feel like I am making some progress.

I've ditched the Galantamine for now because I realised that although it occasionally worked, for about the following week my dream recall suffered, and also the clarity of the LDs and the length seemed to worsen after the initial success.

So, maybe take a short break, relax about it and don't beat yourself up about your lack of success.


One last couple of tips which I think are vital, get at least 8 hours of sleep each night with a constant routine, and no drugs(caffeine & alcohol included)!

Originally Posted by DragonSword

Some of you may remember I posted this a few months ago. I've tried everything.

What, exactly, have you tried, and for how long? If you describe your current practice, in great detail, what you do every day, and every night, in order to promote dream recall and lucidity, then perhaps we can help.

Maybe what you need to do is to keep a "waking journal" while you're waiting to recall dreams for your dream journal, describe what you do all during the day, at what tines etc., what do you at night time, during the night, how you wake, how often you wake, what's on your mind as you wake, and so forth. Writing out a waking day's memory journal in the evening can also be a great stimulation to recall. Recalling dreams is basically no different than recalling what you did during the day, both are a review of recent memories.

Have you read LaBerge's ETWOLD and ACILD? Have you followed ACILD to the letter, every single point of every exercise, in order? And done it for a significant amount of time at full effort (several months at least)? If not, there's the place to start.

If you haven't yet, you should try reading through the thread Ctharlie started about mindfulness, and read the references there. The books about mindfulness practice and the Dream Yoga books there are very interesting, and enough of a different approach from the typical "western scientific" literature on lucid dreaming that perhaps something there will resonate with you more strongly.

In particular, B. Allanc Wallace's "Dreaming Yourself Awake: Lucid Dreaming and Tibetan Dream Yoga for Insight and Transformation" is a well-written introduction to Dream Yoga and seeks to synthesize the western and eastern approaches to lucid dreaming practice.

In many ways, success in lucid dreaming, dream recall, (or any discipline which requires effort [and most do], like musical instruments) is a self-fulfilling prophecy: you must really truly desire it with all your heart, and you must never let anything get in your way, and work diligently past any and all obstacles.

Realize that it is not simply a destination (recalling dreams every night, having a particular lucid dreaming frequency), but a life journey: of personal self-discovery, focusing on your self-awareness, memory, and how you sleep and dream.

edit; let me add that negative feelings and dream performance anxiety tend to exist in a vicious self-fulfilling cycle. You need to break out of the negative mindset. Looking forwards to results without putting any pressure on yourself in the meantime, while maintaining the full-on practice, is the way to go.

Mindfulness and meditation practice have benefits for waking life -- they're sort of a "have your cake and eat it, too" thing. Practicing them without putting pressure on yourself that they must yield dreaming results will absolutely yield those dreaming results as a side effect. One of the absolute best ways to lead a fulfilling and happy dream life is to have a happy and fulfilling waking life.

Why don't you start (or continue) a workbook in either the intro or DILD class, and put at least an abbreviated version of a day memory journal and LD practice journal there. Maintaining a journal related to dreaming every day and posting it there as proof to yourself that you're doing the work and making the effort can be a great way to break the dreaming logjam. Having the willpower to do something like that is essential in building a dreaming practice.

Well the main reason your not getting lucid dreams is because of your attitude. You need to believe that lucidity is in your grasp, and that it is easy to do. You can use a mantra throughout the day to help you with this.

The other thing is to pick is simple method, like mild+wbtb and stick with it for a while. If you use a method for a week, then stop because it hasn't yeilded a LD, then don't expect to make a great improvement.

The final thing is to practice durring the day, but not get overwhelmed. If all you think about is LDing , then it will get exhausting, and something that you are averse to. Instead you should make a watch beeb every 30-60 minutes, and when it beeps, then do a RC. Two things could come of this. one is that it will increace you prospective memory. This will make it so while in a dream you will remember to do a RC. The other thing that will happen is that your alarm will go off In a dream, and you will become lucid. If you don't have a watch, then you could choose 2-3 different objects durring the day, and do a RC each time you see one. This will definitely increace your prospective memory.


Key points

Have a positive attitude.

Practice durring the day, but not to much.

Stick with a method for about 2 months before moving to a different method.

good luck with becoming lucid.

Originally Posted by LDleader

Well the main reason your not getting lucid dreams is because of your attitude. You need to believe that lucidity is in your grasp, and that it is easy to do. You can use a mantra throughout the day to help you with this.

The other thing is to pick is simple method, like mild+wbtb and stick with it for a while. If you use a method for a week, then stop because it hasn't yeilded a LD, then don't expect to make a great improvement.

The final thing is to practice durring the day, but not get overwhelmed. If all you think about is LDing , then it will get exhausting, and something that you are averse to. Instead you should make a watch beeb every 30-60 minutes, and when it beeps, then do a RC. Two things could come of this. one is that it will increace you prospective memory. This will make it so while in a dream you will remember to do a RC. The other thing that will happen is that your alarm will go off In a dream, and you will become lucid. If you don't have a watch, then you could choose 2-3 different objects durring the day, and do a RC each time you see one. This will definitely increace your prospective memory.


Key points

Have a positive attitude.

Practice durring the day, but not to much.

Stick with a method for about 2 months before moving to a different method.

good luck with becoming lucid.

I'll put a watch on the list next time I'm at the store.

I tried a dream induced lucid dream? I recognized I was dreaming a few times this past year like I said and got too scared and woke up. You would think being 22 and normally not afraid of things, I could get over that fear.

I've tried WBTB and WILDS and the WBTB plus WILD technique. My problem appears to be that I'm stuck in the paralysis state and can't get into the dream.

I have also tried to think of what I dreamed but I only get a word or two in my thoughts and even then I'm not sure. I've woken up naturally in the middle of the night.

I'm also still feeling a lot of stress now so that could possibly be a factor.

Originally Posted by DragonSword

I tried a dream induced lucid dream? I recognized I was dreaming a few times this past year like I said and got too scared and woke up. You would think being 22 and normally not afraid of things, I could get over that fear.

I've tried WBTB and WILDS and the WBTB plus WILD technique. My problem appears to be that I'm stuck in the paralysis state and can't get into the dream.

I have also tried to think of what I dreamed but I only get a word or two in my thoughts and even then I'm not sure. I've woken up naturally in the middle of the night.

I'm also still feeling a lot of stress now so that could possibly be a factor.

I don't know if you decided not to answer my post (about detailing your practice), or if this is the answer...?

Maybe you could use much more structure in planning your day and night practice. LaBerge's A Course In Lucid Dreaming gives you concrete progressive exercises and things to do during the day and night to promote dream recall and lucidity. I recommend reading it and following it.

Becoming lucid isn't about "trying everything", it's about developing he right mindset.
What are you trying to do?
You are trying to recognize the dreamstate.
What do you need to do in order to be able to do that?
You need to have a good dream recall, and you need to develop a questioning attitude to your surroundings.
How can you do that?
You can write down your dreams, or at least try to recall as much as possible from them when you wake up, so that you become as famiiliar with them as possible, and you can decide that you are going to remember to recognize that you are dreaming the next time you are dreaming.

This is really all you need to know.
All those techniques are just different ways to improve dream recall and awareness of the dreamstate;
think of lucid dreaming as a workout - then, dream recall is what you eat, and your level of critical awareness is your muscles.

Anyway, if you really want a concrete starting point, then most people seem to have great success with MILD.
Just make sure you truly understand MILD, because it is a pretty deep technique, and involves steps like dream journaling, visualization and brief awakenings during the night.
Stephen LaBerge explains this technique very well in his book Exploring The World of Lucid Dreaming, and it is also covered really well on the site WorldOfLucidDreaming.

About the watch thing.. It's fine to use a reminder for reality checks in the beginning, but don't start relying on it to do RCs. If you rely on it in waking life, you'll rely on it during dreaming as well, and in dreams it won't be there to remind you.
I agree with Yuusha, it's about the right mindset, and part of that mindset is the want for lucidity. Do you really want it? Because if you don't truly desire it, then your brain will understand that lucidity is not important, so it won't make it happen.

you're not ready yet.....when you're ready, you'll know it.......and by that i mean you will begin to feel yourself changing....
you'll start to notice things you never noticed when your awareness heightens.....
you'll start "catching yourself" in auto-pilot, and snapping out of it---pulling your awareness back in....

these guys are right......your mindset has to be prepped......

you should try meditation.....to clear your mind......ten minutes a day has helped me to organize my thoughts......

LUCIDITY is IN ALL OF OUR GRASPS.....everyone here has the ability.....it just takes some of us longer than others.....

Wake up in the morning
just sit and clear your mind for a few minutes...
......eat some breakfast, some cereal with milk..and bananas in it, drink some apple juice...and a cheese bagel or something...
if you're feeling frisky, take a b6 vitamin and go occupy yourself for awhile....
go outside and do some yard work.....or clean a room in your house....or exercise.....
but make sure you're alone.....try not to get engulfed in conversations or anything that might kick you into auto-pilot
randomly ask yourself..."why do i think that i'm awake?"..........
after a couple hours of doing whatever activity you occupied yourself with....take a midday nap....

you should go str8 into a rem stage and have a very vivid dream.....
when u wake up....try to remember it.....write it down...

make dreaming a priority in your life.....make it special for yourself.....get into a rhythm or routine to let your mind know when its time for dreaming....
if you cant remember your any dreams, dont get discouraged.....just keep doing your practice......my most provocative lucids came right after a moment of huge disappointment and confusion....

i once couldnt remember a single dream for a whole week after i got into this.....
couldnt remember NOTHING, ZILCH.....not even a name, or a fragment, nothing....
got very discouraged and went to sleep one night and became lucid.....

that let me know that...there is no 100 percent working lucid formula recipe....you have to get to know your own mind.....
when you're ready, you'll "feel it".......you will feel like you know what to do when you "catch yourself"....dreaming.....
ALL it takes is one time.....once you know what it feels like and you're not shocked anymore.....lol



I had to REHEARSE what i would do.....for when i caught myself dreaming........almost like military training.....lol....
you'll get there.......

Try a simple technique like mild. Don't try wild if you get too scared.

Originally Posted by LDleader

Try a simple technique like mild. Don't try wild if you get too scared.

Lol! I got too excited on my first WILD when I felt like I was floating. That's what woke me up. Seeing a dead body (as I was gaining lucidity in a dream in my apartment) was what made me scared and I woke up for a different one.

Perfect WBTB bed last night and nothing. Got up fully for ten to fifteen minutes after 6 /12 hours of sleep then went back to bed for another three hours. Wonder if recall is my problem?

Originally Posted by DragonSword

Lol! I got too excited on my first WILD when I felt like I was floating. That's what woke me up. Seeing a dead body (as I was gaining lucidity in a dream in my apartment) was what made me scared and I woke up for a different one.

Perfect WBTB bed last night and nothing. Got up fully for ten to fifteen minutes after 6 /12 hours of sleep then went back to bed for another three hours. Wonder if recall is my problem?

You are making lucid dreaming way too complicated.
Lucid dreaming isn't some kind of weird occult where you have to see ghosts sitting on your chest or feeling like you are leaving your body or whatever - all that lucid dreaming is, is the ability to realize during a dream that you are dreaming.
And in order to do that, you need to become more self-aware of your surroundings and question your current state more often.
There is absolutely no requirement whatsoever to "endure Sleep Paralysis and scary hypnagogic imagery", that state isn't even strictly a real part of lucid dreaming, it's just a natural part of the falling-asleep process that some people might experience during WILD attempts.

In my opinion, the simplest and most natural way to induce lucid dreams is to just firmly decide for yourself that you are going to recognize that you are dreaming in your next dream.
That's essentially what MILD is all about - telling yourself before bedtime that you are going to recognize that you are dreaming that night (this is called Prospective Memory, and you can practice this memory ability in waking life as well, by trying to remember to do random future tasks without using any memory aids; this will greatly increase the success rate of MILD - and of course, you can combine this with WBTB if you want to have even higher success rates).
Lucid dreams aren't any more strange than that, they are any random dreams that you have had any night in your whole life, with the difference that you understand that it is a dream.

And yes, the very first thing you should do is to maximize your dream recall.
This is without a doubt one of the most important steps, because you need to be able to remember your dreams if you are going to be able to recall your lucid dreams.

Keep practicing!
Don't try to force lucid dreams to happen, start with just improving your dream recall and preparing some LD goals.

So what was I experiencing when I was floating? Or what felt like it at least? A dark lucid? I did hear machine noises and an old car's engine and I don't think it was anything outside.

And I don't think lucid dreamers are occult. I have friends that do, but I don't agree with them on this.

Originally Posted by DragonSword

So what was I experiencing when I was floating? Or what felt like it at least? A dark lucid? I did hear machine noises and an old car's engine and I don't think it was anything outside.

And I don't think lucid dreamers are occult. I have friends that do, but I don't agree with them on this.

As someone who hasn't exactly been steady with my rc's and other induction techniques, I've been successful at becoming lucid and extremely successfull at dream recall. If you don't keep a dream journal I would recommend that as your first step. A lot of the time after waking from a dream I would remember vividly what happened when I woke but fail to remember it in the morning. It was when I made a point of recalling and getting excited about my dreams that I started remembering. It's baby steps, but at some point if you have enough experience recalling, you may be able to become lucid in a normal dream situation. Good luck brotha and don't give up on the other methods now, you're probably very close to breaking through!

One advantage for me is that I have always been able to set myself to wake up at a particular time.

So now that I try to remember all my dreams, I just set myself to wake up after every dream

Of course it means waking up like 4 to 5 times per night, and losing a lot of sleep, also it takes me up to 1/2 hr to fall back
asleep after remembering and typing for 1/2 hr.

I find that I am better able to remember when I don't have to go to work the next day. I still wake up many times per night
on work nights, but I often don't get back to sleep and don't remember much.

I have only once become lucid other than around the time when I normally wake up or latter in the morning.

I use Melatonin to induce vivid dreams, and take some every time I wake up both time released and fast acting. I think the B-6
in my time release does help me to remember my dreams, also having them more vivid and bizarre helps. When I wake from
dreams my eyes seem to flash with patterns (when I mega dose on Melatonin) making it easy to know I have just finished a dream
but I have never been able to DEILD (much less WILD).

Just be sure when you finally succeed to stabilize immediately, I just had a lucid dream the other day that lasted 4 seconds,
stabilization was an afterthought and it was too little too late for me. I couldn't even get my hands together in time to survive the void.
I find I only stabilize in time about 50 percent of my dreams and only survive the void 50 percent of the time.

With the Melatonin tho I am able to have 1.5 lucid dreams per weekend with roughly half of them being for a decent amount of time.

I usually am able to recall at least some dreams every night even work nights, and on weekends I often remember many minutes of four
or more dreams. Especially if they are vivid.

My first recent lucid dream was by RC but it took 2 months to get one. Since then I have never had one from reality check, I just notice
I'm dreaming and become lucid, but If I don't stabilize less than one minute (and often seconds) latter I'm awake.

Once you achieve one it will get easier. Just hope I learn to DEILD then I'll be able to do it quite often as I detect myself waking from at
least one dream pretty much every night, often a few per night, but I never make it into a dream.

I can't speak on LD as much as recall. I found understanding your sleep cycles is super important in recall. In order to find my patterns, I have video taped my sleeping habits and timed my cycles. Also, I would shout out words related to dream sequences (rather than a written journal). What I found is that times when I thought I wasn't sleeping, I was actually snoring, lmao. And that only 2 hours into sleeping I had some very important dreams.

I know roughly when my cycles end, which helps to determine WBTB. Also, if you use alarms to aid you in waking. Eventually you wake automatically between cycles.

It's hard to have recall because sleep is naturally a non-alert state. It's a bit like trying to remember the night out on the town after being very drunk. Until someone reminds you, you can't remember.

I agree with waking up at intervals between cycles. Taking notes or do a video journal. It does amazing things for recall. But you have to know your sleep patterns very well.

I can guarantee recall if I make an effort to wake up and journal. What's funny about the video journal is that you'll forget about dreams, but suddenly remember them after reviewing the video. And dreams are like a thread on a cheap sweater, once you get a hold of a thread, you pull and pull and it all unravels.

I'll say things while I'm sleeping like "lamp post". And a simple word like that will remind me of being on a campus at night with lamps and fog, and some long story that follows.

It's a lazy man's journal but very effective, if you have a video camera. I have a surveillance camera with night vision.