Thread: DEILD/ WILD help

I have a quick and hopefully helpful observation:

Originally Posted by Tiktaalik

So far I’ve had 3 successful DEILDs but all 3 were sort of spontaneous (or so they seemed!) I usually awake from a dream when it happens but not fully and remain in that sleepy in between state and manage to transition from there.

The numerous times I’ve tried to do it willingly after waking though I have failed. I struggle with getting back to sleep and probably wake myself up too much by focusing on the methods.

So I have a few questions which I was hoping to get some advice on.

All DEILD's are literally spontaneous, because you do them immediately upon the moment you realize you are beginning to awaken; so what you're doing was actually the right thing. Also, in my opinion, the ideal DEILD conditions include not fully waking and remaining in that sleepy between state to best manage the transition back to dream. So you are clearly on the right track with DEILD. Except for one thing, I would recommend not adding anything to your DEILD routine (or anti-routine, I suppose), and just keep doing what you're doing.

What's the one thing? When you feel yourself waking up, try to hold onto the dream you are exiting -- keep it foremost in your thoughts (well above concerns about waking up, for instance), even visualize its continuation if you can. This makes the transition back to your dream much easier. Please note that this "holding on" does not equal recall; recall is a cognitive function that will only help wake you up even more, and is not necessary in DEILD, or classic WILD for that matter.

As long as I'm here:

1. How much should I recall?

Not much at all: Recall is not a necessary component of WILD, and, as I just said, will likely damage your DEILD. So yes, with DEILD "wake up, not open my eyes, forget recall and go straight into a DEILD attempt" is a very good idea.

That said I don't think remembering your dreams during WBTB when attempting a classic WILD would have much of an effect on getting back to sleep, and 5-10 minutes recalling your dreams is a fine use of WBTB time, because it might help keep your mind focused on dreaming, rather than other tempting distractions that accompany waking up (i.e., looking at your phone). Still, should you choose not to bother with recall during a WBTB, your WILD will be just as attainable

Oh, and I recommend that you never worry about catching your last REM period, as that is just another distraction that will pull you away from lucidity; just remember that dreams cause REM, and not the other way around, so if you get back to sleep and dreaming (through DEILD or WILD), your REM period by definition will be extended.

So: Yes, recall is a bad thing to do during a DEILD, but, though not necessary, it is okay with classic WILD when done during WBTB.

2. No alarm

Good.

Alarms, in my opinion, are an ineffective tool, because they tend to wake you too much for WILD and completely defeat any chance of DEILD.

And, once again, "catching REM" is a not necessary focus, especially late in the sleep cycle, when your brain is pretty much set to dream all the time (meaning slow-wave NREM moments are very short and easily endured or papered over with dreaming, should you encounter them). [Note: This might run counter to what I said in the timing section of my WILD class; I guess my knowledge/opinions have evolved over the last decade.]

So you are on the right track here too; no worries!

3. Anchor

My go-to anchor is a mantra, but this truly is one choice you will find yourself making on your own, as you discover what works best for you.

Thank you all for the great advice.

Summerlander:

Thanks for sharing this great guide. It was very clear and informative and made the whole process much clearer.

Sageous:

Thanks for answering my questions also. I’ve been following your threads and guides since I began on DreamViews and learnt a lot from you. I’ve also asked a similar question in your “WILD according to Sageous” thread recently which you’ve answered nicely here so maybe ignore that.

I have only experienced the phantom bedroom scenario once. False awakenings aren’t that common for me (or maybe I just don’t notice them?!) The one experience I did have was very strange. There was my bedside table next to me in bed exactly as it is in waking life but something felt off? I then tried to move and ended up floating straight up into the air as my duvet wrapped around me. This then transitioned into a very stable lucid dream. I will try doing the movement method you suggested Summerlander after every wakening. It may help me catch some false awakening I didn’t know I was having.

Thanks for clearing things up about DEILDs and recall as well. Maybe I’ve been misunderstanding them a little bit. I understand it’s about a “dream exit” but I assumed you woke up for real first and then try to keep your eyes closed and not move and that would help you perform a quick transition back into the dream. This is what I was struggling with and could never get back to sleep. Both of you have mentioned about been in that in-between, sleepy state or “void” which I’ve found myself in on all three of my successful DEILDs. It’s obviously quite easy to enter this state when waking from a lucid but how do you go about waking in this state when exiting an NLD? Is it luck or can you improve your chances?

When I wake from lucids I still have issue getting back into them. I probably do focus too much on waking when I exit so I will try focus purely on re-entering the dream instead. I tried spinning last night after a short lucid which kept me in the void for a while but sadly it didn’t bring me back in. Stress is another big obstacle for me to over come. If I can’t fall back asleep I get really tense and even grind my teeth. I know it’s wrong to get frustrated but knowing that just makes it worse! Something I need to work on.

I’ve had some almost WILD experiences in the past and felt that pop in, pop out sensation when my mind wanders but never been able to relax enough to successfully transition and keep awareness. I’ll keep trying with focusing on a mantra or visualisation as I think these are best for me.

I mainly attempt WILD on weekends so I will update the thread if I have any luck. I’m not rushing though and happy to play the long game. Thanks again for all the advice.