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    Thread: DEILD/ WILD help

    1. #1
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      DEILD/ WILD help

      Hi all, Iím now 8 months into my Lucid dreaming journey. Iím at a comfortable place with DILDs and looking to have more WILDs/ DEILDs. (A New Years resolution I suppose!)

      So far Iíve had 3 successful DEILDs but all 3 were sort of spontaneous (or so they seemed!) I usually awake from a dream when it happens but not fully and remain in that sleepy in between state and manage to transition from there.

      The numerous times Iíve tried to do it willingly after waking though I have failed. I struggle with getting back to sleep and probably wake myself up too much by focusing on the methods.

      So I have a few questions which I was hoping to get some advice on.

      1. How much should I recall?

      So the first problem Iíve identified is perhaps too much emphasis on dream recall when I wake up. So I often wake naturally after 4-6 hours of sleep I assume after a REM cycle has finished and do WBTB. When I wake I often spend 5-10 minutes recalling my dreams and can usually remember a few. Then if Iím attempting WILD I will try to get back to sleep whilst keeping awareness but I can never get back to sleep. I was wondering if Iím spending too long recalling? Should I wake up, not open my eyes, forget recall and go straight into a DEILD attempt so I can catch the last moments of my REM cycle?

      2. No alarm

      I never use alarms. I share a bed with my partner and donít want to wake her unnecessarily. Iíve also gotten quite good at waking naturally but I fear Iím waking at the end of my REM cycles so when I then attempt WILD Iím not doing it at the optimal time. Do you rely an alarms to make sure you wake and attempt it at the beginning of a cycle?

      3. Anchor

      So the final question, what anchors do people suggest? I assume the answer varies and itís worth trying a few. Iíve tried breathing, visualising, counting, hypnagogic observing, mantras and sounds. It could be that one of these will work for me eventually if I time it right but not sure which would be best? Is it all about timing?!

      Thanks in advance for all your help.
      Last edited by Tiktaalik; 01-02-2021 at 10:22 PM.

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      WILD/DEILD isn't my area of specialty, but I can speak to question #2. From what I've read about sleep cycles they can vary in length, on average between 90 and 120 minutes. Once you teach your body what time to wake up your body will then try to adjust the length of the sleep cycles such that everything is "wrapped up" by the time you wake. In short, yes, you're less likely to wake in the middle of a REM cycle naturally compared with "surprising" your body with an alarm. Letting the wake up times become too predictable can have the same downside (ex. doing WBTB at the same time too many nights in a row).

      For less disruption I have a silent alarm on my Fitbit watch that just vibrates and is enough to wake me up. It still makes a little noise but less than a standard alarm. Another option would be an alarm via headphones - provided you can find some comfortable enough to sleep in. I've used that in the past. It's not my favorite but it gets the job done.
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      Hi, Tiktaalik!

      My Experience with Lucid Dreaming:

      I have over a decade of serious practice and I have conducted lucid dreaming tests for research with Michael Raduga, so I might be able to help you. Since you are already good with DILDs, I won't focus too much on the method of becoming lucid whilst dreaming—but I will say that having a dream journal to record ordinary dreams won't just help you with dream-initiated lucidity, it will help you with dream recall in general (non-lucid and lucid dreams alike). Think of dream recall as a fun exercise. Don't force it and don't put pressure on yourself to retrieve details that you feel you are missing. They may come to you later, but if they don't, just record what you can remember however minimal.

      So let's focus on your New Year's resolution, shall we? You want more WILDs and DEILDs. If you master the latter, you don't need anything else. The challenge here is to recognise that the first sensations of lying in bed upon a dream-exit are not actually real—they are phantom—but because sleepers mistake it for the real world, they wake up in bed in a self-fulfilling prophecy, as it were. Do not mistake hypnopompia for the real world!

      DEILD:

      As soon as you perceive yourself exiting a dream, try to hold on to a dream object if you can in order to pull yourself back into the dream with newfound lucidity. Even if you sense the first sensations of a bed beneath you, do not be discouraged—just get up and out of bed! I cannot tell you how much success I've had with this.

      I get up no matter what, pretty much like a machine (executing perceived movement without thinking), to find myself in a phantom replica of my bedroom; if in doubt—as sensations are often realistic—I do a reality check to confirm it's all a very elaborate illusion, and continue to lucidly explore the dream world.

      APPROACHING INDUCTION:

      After some success, you might be eagerly chasing the dragon, so to speak, which can be detrimental to induction itself. I've been there. Have a relaxed approach. A firm intention but do not let failure stress you out. It can be useful reflecting back on where you think you might have gone wrong. When you prepare yourself to induce lucid dreaming, remember: relax your mind and your body follows suit; relaxation starts with the mind. If the mind is stressed, full of doubt, or feeling pressured, the body tenses up and WILDs become impossible to achieve.

      You already know what to do here: first get the prerequisite 6 hours or so of sleep as this obviously helps tremendously—because once the theta and delta stages are out of the way, there is plenty of REM phase in the morning to easily enter into the hybrid lucid state. The WBTB method is extremely successful with a lot of people! Play around with the time that you spend awake before returning to bed. Try, say, 15 minutes first, perhaps imagining or thinking about a simple plan of action to execute in a lucid dream—for example: 1) Look at my reflection in a mirror; 2) Fly to the moon; 3) live out an erotic fantasy. It also helps to simply read a paragraph or two about lucid dreaming.

      WILDS:

      When you return to bed remember to relax and have patience. Mindfulness meditation at this stage begets lucidity and propels you into that mind awake/body asleep state. It's a case of calmly focusing on something—be that the darkness behind your eyelids, an imagined sound, or visualising an object such as a lightbulb—and gently bringing your mind to the point of focus every time it gets lost. Do not get mad at yourself for noticing that your mind has wandered because the mind naturally does that.

      Eventually, sounds or images will take a life of their own, and when this happens, remain relaxed and amplify the sensations with your mind. Hypnagogia is a sign that you are almost there! You might get the opportunity to jump into a dream scene with waking consciousness, or, once sensations reach a peak, you may attempt a perceived exit from the sleeping body (OBE-styled) or simply get up to find yourself already standing in the phantom world of lucid dreaming, which can closely emulate the real world so have a reality check ready. Remember to employ techniques of intensification and prolongation of lucid dreaming thereafter.

      ALARMS and WILD DAYS:

      I also have no need for alarms. I can wake up around a certain time in the morning with intention alone; and I, too, sleep next to my wife and can induce lucid dreams next to her (sometimes she wakes me up from them). By the way, you don't have to force yourself to have WILDs every night—in fact, it is advisable to take breaks in between (a minimum of 3 days)—and remember that a successful night of several lucid dreams, or 'lucid-dream chaining', is possible. If your wife is quite restless in her sleep and you plan to employ the WBTB on a particular morning, try doing it elsewhere, such as the sitting room or couch.

      If you have any more questions, I'm here to help with your practice. Once you get a hang of it, you will want to hold on to it for life. Good luck and let us know how you progress!
      Last edited by Summerlander; 01-16-2021 at 07:46 AM. Reason: Additional
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      THE PHASE = waking consciousness during sleep hybridisation at 40Hz of brainwave activity conducive to lucid dreaming and autoscopy.

    4. #4
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      I have a quick and hopefully helpful observation:

      Quote Originally Posted by Tiktaalik View Post
      So far I’ve had 3 successful DEILDs but all 3 were sort of spontaneous (or so they seemed!) I usually awake from a dream when it happens but not fully and remain in that sleepy in between state and manage to transition from there.

      The numerous times I’ve tried to do it willingly after waking though I have failed. I struggle with getting back to sleep and probably wake myself up too much by focusing on the methods.

      So I have a few questions which I was hoping to get some advice on.
      All DEILD's are literally spontaneous, because you do them immediately upon the moment you realize you are beginning to awaken; so what you're doing was actually the right thing. Also, in my opinion, the ideal DEILD conditions include not fully waking and remaining in that sleepy between state to best manage the transition back to dream. So you are clearly on the right track with DEILD. Except for one thing, I would recommend not adding anything to your DEILD routine (or anti-routine, I suppose), and just keep doing what you're doing.

      What's the one thing? When you feel yourself waking up, try to hold onto the dream you are exiting -- keep it foremost in your thoughts (well above concerns about waking up, for instance), even visualize its continuation if you can. This makes the transition back to your dream much easier. Please note that this "holding on" does not equal recall; recall is a cognitive function that will only help wake you up even more, and is not necessary in DEILD, or classic WILD for that matter.

      As long as I'm here:

      1. How much should I recall?
      Not much at all: Recall is not a necessary component of WILD, and, as I just said, will likely damage your DEILD. So yes, with DEILD "wake up, not open my eyes, forget recall and go straight into a DEILD attempt" is a very good idea.

      That said I don't think remembering your dreams during WBTB when attempting a classic WILD would have much of an effect on getting back to sleep, and 5-10 minutes recalling your dreams is a fine use of WBTB time, because it might help keep your mind focused on dreaming, rather than other tempting distractions that accompany waking up (i.e., looking at your phone). Still, should you choose not to bother with recall during a WBTB, your WILD will be just as attainable

      Oh, and I recommend that you never worry about catching your last REM period, as that is just another distraction that will pull you away from lucidity; just remember that dreams cause REM, and not the other way around, so if you get back to sleep and dreaming (through DEILD or WILD), your REM period by definition will be extended.

      So: Yes, recall is a bad thing to do during a DEILD, but, though not necessary, it is okay with classic WILD when done during WBTB.


      2. No alarm
      Good.

      Alarms, in my opinion, are an ineffective tool, because they tend to wake you too much for WILD and completely defeat any chance of DEILD.

      And, once again, "catching REM" is a not necessary focus, especially late in the sleep cycle, when your brain is pretty much set to dream all the time (meaning slow-wave NREM moments are very short and easily endured or papered over with dreaming, should you encounter them). [Note: This might run counter to what I said in the timing section of my WILD class; I guess my knowledge/opinions have evolved over the last decade.]

      So you are on the right track here too; no worries!

      3. Anchor
      My go-to anchor is a mantra, but this truly is one choice you will find yourself making on your own, as you discover what works best for you.
      Last edited by Sageous; 01-16-2021 at 06:20 PM.
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    5. #5
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      Thank you all for the great advice.

      Summerlander:

      Thanks for sharing this great guide. It was very clear and informative and made the whole process much clearer.

      Sageous:

      Thanks for answering my questions also. Iíve been following your threads and guides since I began on DreamViews and learnt a lot from you. Iíve also asked a similar question in your ďWILD according to SageousĒ thread recently which youíve answered nicely here so maybe ignore that.

      I have only experienced the phantom bedroom scenario once. False awakenings arenít that common for me (or maybe I just donít notice them?!) The one experience I did have was very strange. There was my bedside table next to me in bed exactly as it is in waking life but something felt off? I then tried to move and ended up floating straight up into the air as my duvet wrapped around me. This then transitioned into a very stable lucid dream. I will try doing the movement method you suggested Summerlander after every wakening. It may help me catch some false awakening I didnít know I was having.

      Thanks for clearing things up about DEILDs and recall as well. Maybe Iíve been misunderstanding them a little bit. I understand itís about a ďdream exitĒ but I assumed you woke up for real first and then try to keep your eyes closed and not move and that would help you perform a quick transition back into the dream. This is what I was struggling with and could never get back to sleep. Both of you have mentioned about been in that in-between, sleepy state or ďvoidĒ which Iíve found myself in on all three of my successful DEILDs. Itís obviously quite easy to enter this state when waking from a lucid but how do you go about waking in this state when exiting an NLD? Is it luck or can you improve your chances?

      When I wake from lucids I still have issue getting back into them. I probably do focus too much on waking when I exit so I will try focus purely on re-entering the dream instead. I tried spinning last night after a short lucid which kept me in the void for a while but sadly it didnít bring me back in. Stress is another big obstacle for me to over come. If I canít fall back asleep I get really tense and even grind my teeth. I know itís wrong to get frustrated but knowing that just makes it worse! Something I need to work on.

      Iíve had some almost WILD experiences in the past and felt that pop in, pop out sensation when my mind wanders but never been able to relax enough to successfully transition and keep awareness. Iíll keep trying with focusing on a mantra or visualisation as I think these are best for me.

      I mainly attempt WILD on weekends so I will update the thread if I have any luck. Iím not rushing though and happy to play the long game. Thanks again for all the advice.

    6. #6
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      Hi, Tiktaalik, I'm glad to have helped and it's great that you have a lot of great lucid dreamers here willing to offer you their input.

      I tend to get the bedroom replica with WILD attempts—perhaps due to the fact that I am fond of the 'separation from the body' technique which tends to lead to immediately encountering a logically expected environment.

      False awakenings: these experiences are just begging to be turned into fully-fledged lucid dreams. I often get these when I fall backwards in a lucid dream. I subsequently feel myself lying in bed only to immediately get up in my bedroom which may exhibit an inaccurate appearance or, if seemingly accurate (like your phantom bedside table), will prompt me to do a reality check and continue lucid dreaming. By the way, around Christmas I used the technique of getting up and also felt my duvet wrapped around me, pulling it as I went, making me look back to see my wife disturbed and waking from her sleep; for a second, this made me think I failed horribly and pissed off my wife, but as it turned out, it wasn't real!

      DEILDs: the 'exit' here applies only in the sense of exiting an ordinary dream state; and as your mind moves towards the waking state, it has to go through that in-between—a borderline state where lucidity is possible. Training yourself to recognise that feeling indicative of the waking process will lead to grabbing the best of both worlds at the borderland and voilŠ: the hybridisation of wakefulness and dreaming.

      That's why I was saying about watching out for the first sensations of a body and bed beneath you; although partly generated by the gradual activation of tactile sensory input as you're waking, it is first and foremost a mental model and therefore a 'dreaming guess' of what to expect next before a complete reboot, as it were. This 'dreaming guess' is not quite constrained by sensory input and is exactly what you 'jump into'.

      There is only dreaming, as Stephen LaBerge once made clear. To paraphrase him: 'Reality is dreaming constrained by sensory input; dreaming is reality unconstrained by sensory input.'

      By the way, even if you miss a DEILD opportunity and happen to wake up and move for real, not all is lost. You can still try to induce a WILD as your chances of success will be high. And if you fall asleep, you can always catch the next awakening. Catching the opportunity as you exit the NLD can be lucky but you can definitely improve your chances—even train yourself to catch them. If you manage to do this upon every awakening, you're the master!

      For me it goes something like this:

      Awakening occurring ... did I move? No ... Separate from the body or get up immediately! Voilŗ! Lucid dreaming ... (Phantom movement occurred in lucid dream space)

      Or sometimes:

      Awakening occurring ... did I move? Pretty sure I did slightly ... Remain still and relaxed until hypnagogic hallucinations emerge—such as vibrations, sounds, images—or visualise them until they gain a realistic quality. Amplify whatever sensation emerges. Reaching a peak ... Separate! (If dream scene forms in the darkness behind my eyelids, jump into it with waking consciousness.)

      Intensification and Prolongation

      I've had mixed results with spinning, so I usually rub my hands to keep the lucid dream realistic and prolong it as much as possible. If I rub my hands, I feel for the friction, the sound it makes, the warmth and, of course, I expect to see hands rubbing. The duration of lucid dreaming relies upon keeping the senses alive. Looking at the floor and touching it can stabilise it if it starts to fade. Touching dream objects if they are within reach also helps.

      You don't have to constantly execute intensification techniques, especially if the phantom world is already colourful and hyperreal; you can employ intensification as needed. To avoid hesitation—which can lead to a premature awakening—have a plan of action with at least 3 steps ready to be performed (even if one of the steps is simply exploring what is already before you). Don't get too excited or become too absorbed in serendipity upon entering a lucid dream as this can also cause the experience to collapse. Enjoy it but act more like a poker player with a great hand. Relax and smile, it's your lucky day.

      The best algorithm to deepen and maintain a lucid dream is:

      1. Enter the lucid dream state
      2. Employ Intensification
      3. Execute plan of action simultaneously with sensory maintenance
      4. Exit the lucid dream state if satisfied—in the case of a premature collapse, attempt re-entry
      5. Record lucid dream in the present tense whilst mnemonically reliving it's details

      WILD: Try the mantra or visualisation during induction. Whatever you feel most confident with. But relax. Let the mind pop in and out. Be gentle with yourself. The mind naturally wanders. The default mode is exactly that tendency. No matter how many times it gets lost, just bring it back to the point of focus (exercise). Eventually, before you know it, you will experience that shift. It'll most likely take you by surprise ...

      Good luck, my friend. No pressure and do report back any successes even if they are short-lived.
      Last edited by Summerlander; 01-18-2021 at 06:26 AM. Reason: Additional
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      Quote Originally Posted by Summerlander View Post
      DEILDs: the 'exit' here applies only in the sense of exiting an ordinary dream state; and as your mind moves towards the waking state, it has to go through that in-betweenóa borderline state where lucidity is possible. Training yourself to recognise that feeling indicative of the waking process will lead to grabbing the best of both worlds at the borderland and voilŠ: the hybridisation of wakefulness and dreaming.
      .
      Thanks again for the detailed reply and great advice.

      Youíve cleared a lot of things up about DEILDs. I feel I understand them a bit better now. Like I said Iíve already successfully had three DEILDs I just thought I got lucky with them but Iíll try what youíve suggested and start teaching myself to notice when I come out of a dream.

      What exactly do you mean by separation from your body techniques? Do you mean like a visualisation or is there more to it than that?

      Ive also had most success with rubbing my hands and touching objects to stabilise. If I remember to do these things I usually have longer lucids. If my lucid ends prematurely itís nearly always because Iím either doing too much or too little. Iíll try having the 3 step plan as you mentioned. Trouble is remembering that plan when I become lucid. Usually I can but other times I just do random things.

      Sadly Iíve just gone through my first dry spell. Probably a result of coming into the new year a little too motivated and trying a bit too hard. Anyway Iíve taken a few days off and finally had a decent lucid dream last night. When it ended prematurely I came out of it, stayed still, kept my eyes closed and tried to relax and fall back asleep but it didnít seem to be working but maybe I just wasnít patient enough. I tried to drift off whilst visualising after and once or twice I saw the beginnings of dreams which I popped into and then back out again but thatís as far as I got tonight and fell asleep again afterwards. Itís the weekend now so going to try again over the next 2 days.
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      It really is a game of noticing, of paying attention to what happens in the present. Because people like us aspire to be dream detectives, it is no wonder that once we go through periods of questioning reality, those DILDs start emerging out of nowhere as the most common type of lucid entrance.

      Yeah, to me DEILDs are pretty special. They are pretty much like lucid dreaming opportunities handed to us on a plate; all we have to do is try to be mindful every time we are moving towards wakefulness.

      Separation:

      This tends to be a common term we use at Raduga's School of Out-of-body Travel. It simply means moving away from where your sleeping body is. There is no visualisation here as this technique is employed when hypnagogic/hypnopompic hallucinations have amplified enough to indicate that when you move out of bed, it'll be a phantom movement and you'll subsequently stand, lucid, in the dream world. That's why the separation technique works well with DEILD as you are already relatively close to the dream world.

      Separation is not an imagined or visualised act—really move as you would physically, albeit without tensing your muscles. I sometimes roll over, starting from the head (as I find the rest of the body just follows), and then 'out'; or, upon awakening, or after amplifying hypnagogia, I simply get up to find myself in a lucid dream.

      However you 'separate', remember that what you perceive is a real movement. It feels real but it's phantom. Separation should be done without thinking whether it will work or not—do it like a robot. You will move no matter what!

      Plan of Action

      Yes, I sometimes have trouble recalling the plan. Memory can fail you in lucid dreams just like in waking life when you enter a room and forget what you meant to do in it, for example. It helps to memorise or rehearse the plan in imagination prior to induction.

      By the way, check out this diagram. It's an algorithm for awakenings. The magic happens in the phase state:

      https://images.app.goo.gl/xJT5w7nAJjv4BLes5
      THE PHASE = waking consciousness during sleep hybridisation at 40Hz of brainwave activity conducive to lucid dreaming and autoscopy.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Summerlander View Post
      It really is a game of noticing, of paying attention to what happens in the present. Because people like us aspire to be dream detectives, it is no wonder that once we go through periods of questioning reality, those DILDs start emerging out of nowhere as the most common type of lucid entrance.

      Yeah, to me DEILDs are pretty special. They are pretty much like lucid dreaming opportunities handed to us on a plate; all we have to do is try to be mindful every time we are moving towards wakefulness
      Yes. Totally agree. I described it in a similar way in my dream journal the first time it happened. I said it was as if my mind had woken me up and said ďHereís the door, now you figure out how to get inĒ. All three of my DEILDs have been amazing and by far the clearest and longest dreams Iíve had. I started last night trying to notice when I had exited a dream without opening my eyes. Iím quite good at catching those brief awakenings in the night but never the dream exit part. Iím hoping with a clear intention I will be able to get better at this.

      My attempts last night didnít lead to a DEILD/ WILD but I did have a DILD so I canít complain. Iím managing to wake up in the sweet spot but after going to the toilet and doing some recall Iím struggling with falling asleep.

      Thanks also for clearing up about the separation technique. I will bare it in mind and try it out.

      When it comes to observing hypnagogia Iíve heard mixed things. During my DEILDs focusing on hypnagogic imagery is what helped me transition but during WILD is it best not to pay attention to it?
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      DEILD is a holy grail because you find the 'door' to that world already open and all you have to do is walk through it before it shuts after a few seconds; no need to use the key like with the other methods.

      And yeah, can't really complain if a DILD occurs—after all, it is quite common and happens spontaneously (sometimes merely triggered by talking or reading about lucid dreaming in waking life); it can also happen after falling asleep during a WILD attempt.

      As long as what you do yields results, i.e. lucid dreaming, whether dream-initiated or otherwise, you've hit the spot. If you become lucid in a dream, all that remains is to stabilise the phantom environment and do what you want to do. The goal has already been met.

      Because I've been doing this for years and I practice mindfulness, I sometimes try the hardest method—which Michael Raduga says beginners and intermediate practitioners should stay away from and only try after they have mastered the easiest ways of induction. He practically terms it, the 'direct method'. This entails trying to induce lucid dreaming without any preliminary sleep against all the best advice. I tried at bedtime last night and, despite catching hypnagogic glimpses of dreamlets threatening to form, I fell asleep. It happens.

      The rules change slightly with this method, anyway. The important thing to remember is that induction methods should be approached with ease, like a fun game we're about to play, and even though we obviously aim to win, it's okay if we don't. Seeing induction as an onerous task will only beget frustration, stress and works against you.

      Do pay attention to hypnagogic imagery with WILD, but be cautious when doing so. Your gaze should take the vision as a whole—without looking for details or forcibly trying to suss out what it resembles—so don't peer into it lest it dissipates as quickly as it came. If you can help it, let it form and develop further as you maintain your wakefulness in a relaxed state.

      It is very easy for these images to pop like soap bubbles so don't be hard on yourself if they come and go. Just wait with patience until something begins to manifest strongly. Once it reasonably peaks in definition, you can reach out to it, like jumping into a dream scene. Sometimes rubbing your phantom hands—with real, perceived movement—in front of the forming scenery can help. Doing this may suddenly place you, with preserved wakefulness, in a dream environment. Here's a snippet from my journal as an example:

      'I'm lying in bed in darkness but manage to vigorously rub my hands in front of my eyes until I see luminous digits. I keep rubbing them until the dark void materialises a scenery behind fully-fledged hands. I walk through a mountain pass, as though travelling through a Transylvanian mountain range, with dark green foliage on either side, leading to a little castle. I run towards the medieval structure until I reach its entrance ...'

      In this case, the hands even began to materialise before the scenery.
      THE PHASE = waking consciousness during sleep hybridisation at 40Hz of brainwave activity conducive to lucid dreaming and autoscopy.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Summerlander View Post
      Do pay attention to hypnagogic imagery with WILD, but be cautious when doing so. Your gaze should take the vision as a wholeówithout looking for details or forcibly trying to suss out what it resemblesóso don't peer into it lest it dissipates as quickly as it came. If you can help it, let it form and develop further as you maintain your wakefulness in a relaxed state. It is very easy for these images to pop like soap bubbles so don't be hard on yourself if they come and go.
      So some of what youíve mentioned here was relevant to my attempt last night. First off I set a strong intent before bed to notice those brief awakenings and try be aware of the dream exit. I fell asleep and was awoken by a noise in the night. My first thought was ďWhat was that noise?Ē My second thought was ďoh have I just woken from a dream!Ē I hadnít moved or opened my eyes so I remained still with my eyes closed and within seconds I saw hypnagogia swirling in front of my eyes. I thought it was working but maybe I got a little too aware, a little too excited as the flashes soon disappeared and I became fully awake. I did an RC to confirm this. When I looked at the time it was only 12am so Iíd only been asleep for an hour! It was a good result though. I re-set my intent and went back to sleep but didnít notice any more awakenings like this. It seems as the night went on I forgot this intention and reverted back to my usual wake up and recall intention instead.

      I also did my usual WBTB after 6 hours and tried to hold awareness behind my closed eyes hoping to WILD but no luck. I tried this a few times but no lucidís tonight unfortunately. Still, itís all practice with some positive signs. I think I had too much on my mind during my wake ups. I was recalling, trying to catch dream exits as well as trying to WILD and DILD simultaneously. Probably too much and should just focus on one for sure.

      When Iíve successfully had a DEILD I tried looking past Hypnagogia as if trying to look through my closed eye lids and see whatís behind it all. Is that somewhat similar to what you go for? Iíve never tried it with perceived movement but will definitely give it a go next time Iím in that position.

      I was once practicing WILD before bed just rehearsing what I was going to do and thinking nothing of it but after a while I began to notice my mind drifting and suddenly hypnagogia appeared really intense. I thought I was going to transition but then I began to feel my heart racing extremely fast which freaked me out a little and I ended up pulling myself out of it. I always wondered though if it could have worked or would I just have slipped into unconsciousness instead?

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      Hi, Tiktaalik!

      Sorry about taking my time to replyójust been a little busy lately. Congrats on those visions even if they came after only an hour's sleep! LoL! But no worries, I'm sure you'll catch one soon.

      When you've managed a fully-fledged WILD or DEILD in the morning after a good night's sleep, I shall describe the hardest method, which is performedóagainst the best adviceóbefore bedtime and with no prior sleep. But this direct method requires a different approach and the induction of a 'free-floating state of mind'. I'll explain more at the next stage. Although a lot harder to achieve, some newbies still stumble upon it when they try and manage to have an OOBE.

      It's useful if you feel like inducing anytime during the day if you know you'll be up all night for some reasonólike a late-night celebration, for example.

      Hypnagogia:

      Yes. If I don't seem to be able to make the visions more realistic as they collapse, I just stare past them, which seems to work. If not, I start to rub my hands in front of my eyes. There's a window of time which gradually closes between a perceived awakening and full wakefulness.

      Mirror technique with DEILD

      You can try this, next time, as it will reinforce self-awareness the moment you find yourself in a lucid dream: Upon awakening, imagine being in front of a mirror, looking at your reflection. Even if you don't see it, imagine you are stand in front of one and vision will come at any moment. Only do this for about 5 seconds upon awakening. If nothing happens, just get up. Remember, no sense of urgency or tension should be present in this. Just get up no matter what. Then do a reality check.

      WILD and palpitations:

      I used to get heart palpitations before (years ago at the start of my practice) and usually at the onset of sleep paralysis hallucinations. Sometimes it happens that your amygdala, which is associated with fight-or-flight, excitement, and also plays a pivotal role in memory (tending to stimulate the parts of the brain involved in this), is triggered. This could be due to some fear of what might manifest or a little stress of having to remember stuff. It could also be due to, as you said, 'having a lot on your mind'.

      I don't think you would have fallen asleep, as the pituitary glandówhich is also part of an excited limbic system in your brainóactivates the secretion of adrenaline with fight-or-flight. This causes the blood pressure to go up and hence your heart racing. By the way, your life is not in danger as it is all part of a natural responseójust like neurons at the pons sending inhibitory signals to the spine, eventually causing sleep paralysis so as to prevent you from acting out your dreams.
      Last edited by Summerlander; 01-27-2021 at 04:57 PM. Reason: Typographical
      THE PHASE = waking consciousness during sleep hybridisation at 40Hz of brainwave activity conducive to lucid dreaming and autoscopy.

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      Hi, thanks for your reply and sorry for my late message. I havenít been too well so sleeping and staying focused on dreaming hasnít been the easiest this past week.

      I did have some success on Saturday though. Iím focusing more on WILD currently and have continued with my usual WBTB and keeping awareness on my breath and the images that appear behind my eyes as I fall back asleep. Mostly Iíve just fallen asleep doing this but on Saturday I had a short dream and in it I was in my room and looking through some clothes when suddenly I just realised this was a dream. Upon realising this I woke up immediately. Now I appreciate short lucids and immediate wake ups happen but theyíre not common for me and this felt different. I couldnít remember any prior dream nor did the dream feel fully formed. I wondered if I had entered one of those short visions or pre-dreams that come during the WILD process and then woke up immediately when I noticed?

      Anyway I repeated the process again that night and the same happened again. I wasnít consciously aware of entering the dream but I became lucid instantly within a dream in which I was laid in bed with my wife who randomly jumped on top of me. As before I woke up immediately again and was in the same position in bed as I was in the dream. I think these may have been very short snippets of dreams and I became lucid very quickly within them. I didnít notice the transition but they felt WILD in nature. At least from what Iíve read about otherís experiences. I wondered what your thoughts are?
      Summerlander likes this.

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      WILD success!

      So last night I did it! I had my first successful and intentional WILD! I wasnít actually planning to attempt it tonight but it all came together as the night progressed.

      So I awoke around 4am (after 5 hours of sleep) and did a short WBTB. I then laid in bed and recalled my dreams and hoped I may be able to have a MILD. I was laid awake for a short while and at some point I started to feel relaxed and heavy. I knew I was close to sleep and I could feel my mind slipping every now and then. My legs became numb and I made sure I didnít move them as I knew I was getting close to the transition. I then wondered if I could attempt a WILD and started breathing in and out slowly whilst remaining aware of the process. Then all of a sudden a high pitch ringing hit my ears, my whole body tensed up and it felt as if I was vibrating and trembling in my bed. I knew what was happening and waited with growing excitement for the transition into the dream! But then these sensations faded and I was left awake in bed again. The transition failed but I knew why. I wasnít actively participating in the process and Instead I was just laid there waiting for it to happen. I was very close though so I remained positive and tried again.

      Iím not sure how long I laid there afterward. Maybe I drifted in and out of consciousness a few times but remained in a sleepy yet aware state as I did. Soon I became aware that my legs felt heavy and stiff again and I knew my body was close to sleep. Finally the sensation came back. The loud ringing in my ears and the intense vibrating, twitching and stiffening sensation which rippled through my entire body. Again I was feeling the physical sensations but nothing was going on behind my closed eyes? I knew I was going to have to do something or else it wouldnít work again. So I started to focus on the darkness behind my eyes, looking desperately for something, anything! Thatís when I saw a massive blob of flashing Hypnagogia float by. I grabbed at it with my imaginary dream hands and I was surprised to find I could feel it! It felt like a ball of clay in my hands but I couldnít yet see anything else. I then lifted my imaginary hands up in front of my face and again I was surprised how real the movement felt and I wondered if Iíd actually lifted my real hands up in bed! I then rubbed them together and as I did, my vision suddenly returned and I found myself sat on the end of my bed rubbing my hands together. It worked! I was in a lucid dream and was surprised how quick and seamless it was. I was now fully awake and conscious in my dream bedroom and wasted no time reality checking. I just stood up and got on with my lucid dream which lasted maybe 5 minutes. I had a plan of action which I remembered and had a few good attempts at my dream goals before waking.

      It Was an amazing experience and the advice Iíve received in this thread really helped point me in the right direction. So thank you Summerlander and Sageous. Iím hopeful now having experienced this that I can have many more in future!

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      Hi Tiktaalik!

      You've been busy with great progress. You should definitely keep at it and be proud. It will get better for you. I hope you are feeling better, btw.

      In answer to your previous post about your Saturday success, you are absolutely right. We may have the labels 'WILD', 'DILD', 'DEILD', etc., but the reality is that our minds tend to fluctuate between states of consciousness and unconsciousness whilst thoughts come and go until these impressions become thought-forms and eventually more life-like in the process of becoming fully-fledged dreams.

      Lapses in consciousness are actually quite common during the induction of a lucid dream from the waking state. It is natural and the equivalent of having focus one moment and the mind wandering the next. A lot of people who induce WILDs sometimes don't even realise that a lapse, or lapses, have occurred in the process. If false awakenings or pre-lucids occur, you know what to do: if in doubt, do a reality check. Doubting your reality is a good sign because it means your analytical mind is active and inquisitive.

      In a nutshell, you are only really aiming for lucidity, regardless of whether you enter a dream already lucid (WILD); become lucid during dreaming (DILD); or fall asleep to then realise, upon awakening, that the 'door' to the world of lucid dreaming is wide open (DEILD).

      It is common to attempt an induction from the waking state only to fall asleep and 'wake up' in the middle of a dream—in which case you got a DILD most likely caused by an underlying intention to be lucid as well as a habit of paying attention to what is actually being perceived. All that remains in a DILD is to perform intensification and prolongation techniques because the mission is already accomplished: you are lucid dreaming!

      Even the waking state has its own form of lucidity (which happens when you are actually fully present and attentive) and non-lucidness (when you daydream/mind elsewhere). As you can probably already tell, lucid dreaming is practicing mindfulness in your sleep. And lucid dreaming really is a hybrid state with a tendency to fluctuate, which, once fully intensified, has a lot more in common with being awake than dreaming.

      The optimal lucid dream makes you feel like you are other than where your body truly lies. The colourful, phantom world encountered can replicate, or even outdo, the real world in three-dimensional quality. The environments that are experienced are not ordinarily dreamlike at all, albeit tending to possess a more fluid nature than physical reality. The 'WILD' label really is applicable when there is no perceived (or remembered) lapse in wakefulness as you transition into a lucid dream—and such transition tends to be peppered with hypnagogic hallucinations just as DEILD can bring about hypnopompia.

      Just a few days ago, I performed an experiment for Project Elijah, which I'll share here so you can have a thorough description of another example of what happened during induction. The language here is quite pragmatic and a little different but you will get the gist:


      Date: 04/02/2021
      Method of entry: indirect
      Bedtime: 1.15am
      Awakening: 2.30am
      Return to bed: 2.35am
      Awakening: 5.30am
      Return to bed: 6am
      Awakening: 7.40am
      Attempt: successful
      Duration: 1 minute
      Phase experience: diving down headfirst

      WAKING STATE

      After a couple of awakenings during the night, I return to bed around 6am with a strong intention to enter the phase. I relax on my back whilst rehearsing my plan of action in my head, and after a brief period of mild hypnagogic hallucinations, I fall asleep.

      PHASE STATE

      I come to feeling like I'm lying in bed but space is weirdly pitch black and ostensibly empty. The pale outline of two overlapping circles, similar to 'The Phase' logo, begins to emerge before my eyes. I think that I must be in the phase state so I decide to separate from the perceived bed by abruptly getting up. The room is dark and I can barely make out the bed in which an apparently disturbed and half asleep wife sits, gazing at me incredulously.

      The phase is clearly shallow (about 20% that of the real world) and I remember my instructions from Project Elijah. I close my eyes and plunge into the floor headfirst. Despite the dark void, I make out faint ripples as I go through where a floor should be. As I count seconds, I notice that I'm falling downwards at the speed of a snowflake. I think that I might foul if I remain passive so I end up swimming in dark space in a bid to increase the speed of my fall.

      Just before I roughly reach 15 seconds of falling, I imagine that I'm about to land on the surface of Saturn's moon Titan, but the new ground proves to be that of another replica of my bedroom, and the phase is deeper than before to that of 80% of the real world. I'm standing by my bed's footboard and grab its metal rail which is much higher than in reality. The rail feels pretty solid and the bed becomes visually sharper; as I hold on to it, my feet lose contact with the floor and I playfully levitate in a horizontal position.

      Curiously, I involuntarily gravitate to my right, gradually sliding along the bed footboard until I lose contact with the object and continue to glide in mid-air, in the same position, towards the balcony—passing through the curtain barrier and leaving a quasi-accurate bedroom environment to inevitably meet the outside. As soon as I come into contact with the external world, I feel a distinct drop in temperature and the pale sky is so bright it dominates the visual field. I unexpectedly foul.

      WAKING STATE

      I'm lying in bed feeling slightly cold and uncovered, suspecting that my wife might have inadvertently exposed me as she turned in her sleep. I notice that the room is slightly brighter than the replica in the phase. I proceed to record my result. It is possible that as my wife uncovered me in her sleep, I was made to gravitate towards the outside world in the phase and hence the drop in bodily temperature and subsequent foul.


      In answer to your last post, I am very glad that you nailed it and what an improvement! You managed to do the right thing and experienced vibrations! And you also realised that you needed to be active at the moment your body trembled. When it happens, separate from the bed position no matter what, because, even if it fails (highly unlikely when you are practically there already) you can always make a subsequent reattempt. And again, mind awake, body asleep. If mind wanders, that's normal. What matters is the realisation that it has wandered and you just gently return it back to focus—as many times as it takes until things get truly weird!

      Btw, you don't have to see anything during vibrations. Trust me on this, when vibrations are absolutely real to you, you can just get up. Don't even think how to do it, just do it. The point here is that lucid dreaming can start from any sensation—be that sounds, touch, kinesthesia, vision or otherwise. But I do like how you grabbed that flashing blob; it is truly shocking at how weird and realistic it can be, right? A ball of clay! Absolutely real in sensation as opposed to thoughtlike or imaginary! I love it! I am very pleased for you.

      You have practically experienced a seamless transition into a lucid dream, surrounded by a bedroom replica! Yes yes yes! And keep at it! I wish you many more to come, my friend. May you have a lot of fun with your practice and hope you achieve many fulfilling goals!

      Well done!
      THE PHASE = waking consciousness during sleep hybridisation at 40Hz of brainwave activity conducive to lucid dreaming and autoscopy.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Summerlander View Post
      Hi Tiktaalik!

      You have practically experienced a seamless transition into a lucid dream, surrounded by a bedroom replica! Yes yes yes! And keep at it! I wish you many more to come, my friend. May you have a lot of fun with your practice and hope you achieve many fulfilling goals!

      Well done!
      Hi Summerlander. Thanks for your reply. Iím still over the moon about my recent success. I did attempt it again the following night but got as far as noticing that heavy feeling again and saw a few dream images forming but this time I fell asleep.

      I think Iíve grasped it now though and know how to get to that desired state. Before I was trying to keep my mind aware and focused as I tried to get back to sleep and that was the mistake as I was keeping myself too awake. Now I realise Itís more about setting an intention to ďnoticeĒ when youíre ready. The night I succeeded I sort of drifted out of consciousness but became instantly aware again when I noticed my body was heavy. I suppose this is the same for DEILD. Youíre setting an intention to notice when youíve woken from a dream. It always seemed like it was impossible but I see now intention alone really is a powerful thing.

      I was surprised when the vibrating sensations started how aware I felt. I could still feel my body and felt completely awake. Then when the transition happened it was so quick. It was very surreal to be laid in bed feeling completely awake one moment to knowing I was now asleep and within a completely imagined environment the next. It really is like nothing else Iíve ever experienced! Though the following lucid dream was stable and a decent length it was that moment of rubbing my hands together on the edge of my dream bed that I will never forget. I wish I had turned and looked behind me though to see if My body was laid there asleep in bed, that would have been mind blowing!

      By the way I read your post about dream control in another thread which also came in handy in my lucid. Really tried to keep interacting with the environment and using my senses and it did prolong it to a decent 5 minutes or so.

      Now Iím thinking back at my old lucids I do think some of what I classed as DILDs may have actually been more like WILDs. Though I didnít notice the transition I became lucid very quickly within them and it was as if there was no prior dream. I also think a WILD feels different? They seem more clearer and I have much more wakefulness and control. Do you find that too?

      Thanks for sharing your dreaming experience also. I have been experimenting recently with running through walls as a way of changing the dream location and both times I succeeded Iíve plunged into a dark void and fallen slowly downward similar to how you described. Iíve managed to manifest locations below me as well but not always where I desire. To land on another planet is certainly on my list and I hope to achieve it one day.

      I noticed in your journal entry you also mentioned multiple wake ups. When I first started doing this I was a huge fan of multiple wake ups to recall dreams and such. I maybe woke 3-4 times a night and I was remembering between 4-10 dreams every night! It became clear though that I wasnít getting lucid often and I put this down to me exhausting myself through the night with all the time spent awake I was then too tired during the pivotal moments in the early morning. So I was just curious if you recommend many wake ups in the night or is this something you do every other night?

      So Iím back at work and taking a break from WILDs to attempt some DILDs instead which have been sparse lately. I do hope to attempt it again at the weekend though. Now Iíve had a taste of it I want more! I will try as you suggested and just try get out of bed when I next feel the vibrations and see what happens. Thanks again for all your help and advice itís lead me to an important milestone in my journey.

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      I am also still reeling with delight and very pleased to have helped!

      In time, you will be able to refine your practice. You will also start to notice what tends to work for you in terms of techniques involving hypnagogia and hypnopompia.

      Progressing as a lucid dreamer will lead to the discovery that induction methods interrelate in the sense that the intention that comes with a type of attempt may lead to the side effect of entering the lucid dream state a different way, i.e., trying for a WILD may lead to falling asleep but one may suddenly 'wake up' in a dream—as is the case of DILDs.

      And sleep itself always provides the opportunity to take advantage of awakenings, when the door to lucid dreamland is still open, figuratively speaking. As Morpheus said in The Matrix, 'I can only show you the door, Neo. You're the one who has to walk through it.' Which is what DEILD is in the context of lucid dreaming. Michael Raduga managed to publish a scientific paper about research on DEILD, which is referred to as the 'indirect method'. Check out the link below and scroll down to access the paper (you will find a useful diagram illustrating an algorithm of action upon awakening to access the LD state):

      https://phasetoday.com/indirect-meth...tific-journal/

      For anybody who has not been following this thread, we have practically covered the three main methods of lucid dream induction, which involves entering the phase state (wakefulness+dreaming Gamma brainwave hybrid) BEFORE, DURING or AFTER sleep:


      We have established that the best time to do it is after optimally getting normal sleep for 4 - 6 hours at night in order to get NREM and delta stages out of the way for quicker and easier REM access in the morning, getting up for a few minutes to use the loo or maybe think about lucid dreaming while awake, and then returning to bed with the intention to have a lucid dream—known as 'WBTB' which is essentially deferring the method of induction. So we have the following options upon returning to bed ...

      WILD: wake-initiated lucid dream; entered directly from the waking state. Focusing the mind on something in a relaxed state until weird images, sounds and sensations take place (hypnagogic hallucinations). Amplify the hallucination and then separate from the perceived sleeping body (OBE-style) to find bedroom replica or jump into a forming dream scene. So many ways or percept-based techniques that can be employed in order to access the LD state. Hypnagogia techniques here should not be performed for longer than 20 minutes to avoid frustration if it doesn't work—simply fall asleep with intention to become lucid or catch the next awakening. Also known as the 'direct' method.

      DILD: dream-initiated lucid dream; which can occur as a side effect from trying the other methods but can increase by recording normal dreams to detect dream signs or clues to become lucid. It helps to ask during the day if you are dreaming, several times, and looking at your hands to see if they look normal and performing other reality checks to effectively answer the question even if the waking state seems obvious. This behaviour will carry on into your dreams and you'll be shocked by noticing that maybe you have more fingers than normal. Aiming to become lucid whilst dreaming is also known as the 'dream consciousness' method.

      DEILD: dream-exit initiated lucid dream, which takes advantage of grabbing the borderland state of lucid dreaming upon awakening. The first sensations of lying in bed upon awakening are not real, they are phantom. Separate from the bed/perceived sleeping position (OBE-style)—you can even just get up to stand lucid in the dream world. It can happen straight away upon awakening! If there is real movement, just relax and wait for hallucinations to occur or even visualise them until they become real—like an imagined voice, sound, image or phantom sensation like vibrations. Known as 'cycling through techniques' until a particular hallucination sticks and then it can be amplified with your mind. This cycling through no more than 3 techniques (e.g. observing images/listening in/phantom wriggling) is done quicker than in the direct method scenario above because here only 3-5 seconds are spent on each as opposed to minutes. It won't take long for hypnopompia to happen as you've just woken up. This is also known as the 'indirect' method.


      I'm glad you are grasping it, Tiktaalik. I think sometimes people make it harder than what it actually is and then, with practice, surprise themselves with how simple induction can be. That was certainly me when I seriously began my practice almost 13 years ago. Prior to that, it was pretty much stumbling upon lucid dreams and out-of-body experiences once in a blue moon and in no way as regular as those experiences were during my infancy, which used to terrify me.

      When I was a kid, I'd feel awake in ultra-realistic dream replicas of my childhood home which would often start as false awakenings and I'd suddenly realise something was off, sometimes trying to reason to myself that 'mum must have made changes while I was asleep'. Subsequently, nefarious albino men—with no clothes and faces like the Royals from typical playing cards—would come through walls and chase me with leering expressions and awful smirks.

      When they managed to grab me, I felt tickled and violated. I told my mother that 'white men came for me in dreams that felt real', but she didn't know what to make of it. I began to think that those characters were ghosts that lived in dreams and were having fun at my expense by haunting me. Once, they appeared in a dream that contained my sister. Immediately I felt awake with mortal fear and they pulled me into the bathroom. As I tried to scream to alert my dream sister—who had her back to me—one of the albino men pressed on my bellybutton and my voice turned into a barely audible high-pitched sound. Amidst the terror, something in me wished to wake up and I did.

      These lucid nightmares involving pale men often emerging from walls repeated themselves throughout much of my childhood and petered out to never return once I approached my teens. Often, fear appeared to prolong those experiences. That's one thing that is not often talked about: fear can prolong your stay in the dream world, but it is not desirable; sometimes only a desperate wish to wake up can break the effect of such powerful emotion anchoring you to a nightmare.

      Anyway, I don't want to go off on a tangent here, so, to address some of the points you raised, I'll start by saying that if you feel too awake, get into a comfortable, sleeping position to counterbalance your current state—and vice versa: if you're feeling sleepy, and you reckon you might fall asleep prematurely, adopt a physical position which is less comforting but which you can relax into. If you have to move in order to find the right position, don't worry—go ahead and move; contrary to popular belief, changing your body position will not ruin your chances of entering a lucid dream, in fact, it will improve them!

      And yes, sometimes setting an intention and then not even thinking about it produces surprising results. Whatever the weather, remember to not obsess or stress. Everything in life should be done with harmony. Even the process of making an attempt can be viewed like a fun game where the reward is a massive insentive. Relax into the practice.

      Sometimes trying and accepting failure, with grace, to subsequently take a break from making attempts, can yield unexpected results—almost like your subconscious mind decides to email you with a lucid dream attachment: 'Hi! You've recently requested a lucid dream! I know it's been delayed but I've been a little preoccupied. Well, here it is ...' Intention is indeed a powerful thing.

      I felt the same the first time I experienced vibrations. It is one of those blatant sensations that prominently let's you know you are entering an altered state of mind. It's hard not to go, 'Shit! This is it!' And yes, the lucid experience of being in a realistic dream environment is undeniably in your face. It has, in many respects, a lot more in common with being awake in the real world than ordinary dreaming.

      I once played with oddly shaped clock attached to a wall in a home replica. This clock had a melting shape—like something out of a surrealist painting by Salvador DalŪ—but when I touched it, the object felt absolutely solid and even made noise when I tapped it against the wall, albeit the sound gave me the impression that it was produced 'underwater'. That had such an impact, it always stayed with me. And so did my melting reflection in the mirror. It inspired me to do a painting in order to convey what was observed. It goes without saying that this phenomenon inspires much of my art.

      Lucid dreaming feels out-of-this-world even when familiar environments, such as inaccurate home replicas, are experienced. People don't really get how much of an impression it can make until they experience it for themselves. Imagine Morpheus had merely described to Neo what the Matrix is without showing him ... It wouldn't have had the same impact. Sadly, many still believe it's not even possible.

      They need to see it for themselves because even the popular term 'lucid dream', having long been coined by Frederick van Eeden, doesn't quite capture the essence of the phenomenon. For starters, it is deep and in full swing, it is anything but 'dreamlike'. People also don't always interpret the experience to be a dream when it's happening—even though they have waking consciousness inside a vivid, sleep hallucination; for instance: 'I'm in the astral plane!', 'I've separated from my body into the ethereal realm which resembles the physical world!', 'I've been abducted by aliens as they paralysed me in my sleep, I open my eyes an I can see them around my bed!'

      Meanwhile, the neuroscientific perspective, irrespective of people's views and interpretations, is that of a brain in a hybrid state—with active prefrontal lobes displaying around 40Hz of brainwave action—which is quite distinguished from a brain that is ordinarily dreaming as well as one that is awake in the real world. So what we see here is clearly something apart from those two usual states, and it can fluctuate either way unless it's maintained while it's happening.

      In 2005, Mahowald and Schenck attempted to unite all states that include REM sleep and waking consciousness under the umbrella term dissociated REM states. But it was clearly a bit of a mouthful, so the term phase state (or just 'phase'), which had been used by Robert Monroe decades ago and more recently popularised by Michael Raduga in research circles, began to be pragmatically used in order to attract individuals with different names or views for ostensibly the same subjective phenomenon.

      In the days when I was still learning from Raduga's School of Out-of-body Travel, a few of us shared an inside joke for inciting curiosity in anybody who was not familiar with this phenomenon—as we felt that using the always popular label 'lucid dreaming' just wasn't doing the job—by talking about the phase in front of newcomers until they looked confused; to which we'd say:

      –'You know the question, just as we did ...'
      -'What is the phase?'
      -'Do you want to know what it is? It can't be shown. You have to see it for yourself!'

      Sometimes, 'I can only show you the door, you're the one who has to walk through it.'

      Yes, I know. The Matrix was very popular at the time and it holds relevant connotations. It is, after all, about a computer-generated dream world which everybody takes to be real save for the ones who wake up and realise the truth: Paradoxically, 'There is no spoon.'

      I'm glad you are interacting with your lucid dreams, keeping your senses alive in order to stabilise and maintain them. Nobody wants to wake up prematurely or slip into a non-lucid state. Not much time is required to get a lot done in lucid dreams anyway—just imagine how many goals can be achieved in just a single minute! In the real world, it might take a few minutes just to exit a building from the third floor of a building, but in the dream world, you can cut many corners. Try setting a stopwatch for 1 minute and imagine that you are executing tasks in a lucid dream! Just looking at a hand go around a clock for, say, 120 seconds (2 revolutions) can seem like an 'eternity'.

      WILDs certainly seem to often start from an intensified outset, but I think it is only because we are already carrying a lot of 'waking ammunition', as it were, into the dream world, as we are already amplifying hypnagogic hallucinations which tends to correlate with that hyperrealism where colours seem to even outdo those of the real world. In saying this, it is also possible to obtain high definition in DILDs by employing deepening techniques from the beginning of lucidity, if required.

      Actually, you have touched upon a distinction between vivid dreams and lucid dreams which I feel isn't stated enough: It is possible to have non-lucid vivid dreams just as we can be extremely lucid in one that displays a faint quality, is dark, or lacks realism in some way. In the latter case, our lucid awareness alerts us to this fact and we subsequently intensify the environment to prevent the dream world from collapsing.

      Finally, let's try to land on an alien planet next time! I actually have an experiment to do for Project Elijah where I have to enter a lucid dream and count breaths. I can initially intensify the environment but I'm not aloud to use maintaining techniques because the very act of counting as many breaths as possible is being test as a means to prolong the experience. By the way, I don't usually have multiple awakenings at night but I think that particular instance was due to overindulging in a nice dinner that my wife cooked and then I paid the price! LOL! So I am only recommending staying in lucid dreams for as long as possible and, in the case of awakening interruptions, attempt re-entries—also for as long as possible or until you are satisfied.

      Good luck with those future DILDs, my friend, and they, too, can be realer than real. And by all means grab those DEILD opportunities for entry and re-entry! I hope this journey is insightful and life-changing for you. Have fun and sweet LDs!
      THE PHASE = waking consciousness during sleep hybridisation at 40Hz of brainwave activity conducive to lucid dreaming and autoscopy.

    18. #18
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      Quote Originally Posted by Summerlander View Post

      Good luck with those future DILDs, my friend, and they, too, can be realer than real. And by all means grab those DEILD opportunities for entry and re-entry! I hope this journey is insightful and life-changing for you. Have fun and sweet LDs!

      Hi Summerlander, once again thanks for your response.

      It really is a fascinating subject. Iíve always loved science fiction and movies like the Matrix. Itís amazing that this is a real thing that can be learned and experienced. Like you said, sometimes the simplest things can be the most mind blowing. I always love inspecting text on a sign or in a book, looking away and back again and watching it change. When you see reality manipulated and change in front of your very eyes as if itís completely real itís like nothing else I can describe and I completely agree itís hard to explain without experiencing it for yourself. I once had a funny moment within a dream where I was explaining to someone how a lucid dream feels. I wasnít lucid at the time and said ďa lucid dream feels real. It feels as real as THIS right now!Ē Little did I know I was actually in a dream and just shows how real it feels!

      Though fun and adventure was obviously a big draw for me at first Iím growing more interested in the science and psychology surrounding it. I had a look on the ďphase todayĒ website and had a look through some of the articles. Interesting stuff. I wouldnít mind participating in something like project Elijah one day but for now Lucid dreaming needs to be about me and exploring my own dreams. Who knows where the journey will take me though.

      Iíve just had my 2nd WILD by the way which was a surreal OBE experience similar to the last time I did it.

      ďIím laying on my side after a long WBTB. I think about Attempting a WILD but decide I need to catch some sleep instead as Iíve been awake for a while. As I lay there on my side I breath in and out heavily to relax myself and try keep my mind blank. I then notice my mind slipping and some Hypnagogia behind my eye lids. Iím very close and start to concentrate past the darkness of my closed eyes and just like that I can feel myself slipping into a dream. I donít feel the physical sensations this time I just feel my vision being sucked into the darkness. I then remember I want to try have an out of body experience and imagine the physical sensation of sitting up in bed. I manage to do so and drag myself upward as if out of my body and it feels rather realistic and I hope I havenít actually moved my real body. I then start rubbing my hands together in front of my eyes and it also feels realistic and now I know Iím in a dream and once again Iím in a replica of my bedroom and stood at the end of my bed. My vision is poor and blurry and the room dark and I feel a little unstable almost like Iím vibrating slightly. Knowing the dream could collapse any moment I quickly go over to where I left my body asleep in bed and see in the darkness the outline of my head. My vision is still poor but I bend down anyway to look and see if itís really me laying in bed. It is! I can just make out my face and chin and Iím laid on my side as I had been. I then touch my beard gently with my finger just to confirm what Iím seeing is really there. I then see my wife stirring at the side of me and I donít want to wake her so I dash out of the bedroom. now my vision is better and my dream stable and I continue on with my lucid dreamĒ.

      It was another interesting lucid and Iím glad I finally experienced this OBE like experience which was on my list of goals. I utilised the same methods I did last time so Iím glad Iíve found something that works for me.

      I could keep asking questions but I think I know all I need to move forward now so I will leave any further questions for the future. So again thanks for all your helpful insight. I started this thread with a few simple questions and got so much more so I appreciate you taking the time to share your wisdom and experience over this past few weeks. Iím not sure if youíve written any guides on Dreamviews but I think others could benefit from your knowledge if you ever decide to.

      P.S. I wouldnít mind seeing some of your art work if you have somewhere I can view it?
      Summerlander likes this.

    19. #19
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      Yes, it is indeed amazing that such a mind-blowing phenomenon is real and accessible to anybody who wishes to explore it.

      How can one not be interested in lucid dreaming, right? I have encountered all sorts of reactions after having articulated to people what it entails and the one response that appears to completely miss the point is, 'So what? They are just dreams ...' It is worse than, 'You mean I'd be able feel fully awake in a dream? It sounds scary, no thank you!'

      At least, in the latter case, the individual appears to somewhat understand how 'real' it can get—hence the fear. But even this perspective fails to grasp the possibilities that a fully conscious dream can bring. Why fear a world that you understand to be a manifestation of your subconscious mind? I'm not implying that in a lucid dream the sailor can control the sea, as it were, but a sailor who is not inebriated is one that can make sound decisions about the direction of his ship.

      This is a point that Robert Waggoner would not deny: Lucidity permits more control. When dreamers become lucid, they are promoted to director status and cease to be mere actors following some illogical plot.

      Dreams get tricky when mundane things happen within them. What we take to be 'normal occurrences' then go on to distract us from using the dream sleuth's most powerful weapon, which is, of course, questioning reality itself. For anyone who enjoys those 'aha!' moments in DILDs, reality checking during the day and recording ordinary dreams is key. The irony of our minds couldn't be made up: the very act of explaining what lucid dreaming entails to a group of people can be a dream itself—showing us that we could be neglecting the reality of our situation at any given time.

      We take perception for granted! I'm 'pinching myself'—so to speak—right now, just in case ... Go ahead! Ask yourself if you're dreaming right now even if it feels silly. Look at your hands; examine your fingers and see if they can withstand a fixed gaze; look at this text, look away, and look back; look at the time and do the same. The point of this habitual exercise is that its intention tends to be carried into your dreams and promotes consciousness.

      You are pretty much like me. As much as we enjoy the adventure and the escapism that comes with lucid dreaming, we are oneironauts at heart. There are deeper things to be discovered here, and the more we understand about this phenomenon, the more I feel it will add to its beauty and sense of magic. It can provide the path to intimately 'know thyself'. It is said that if you know others really well, you are wise; but if you manage to look at yourself and understand what you see in the mirror of dreams, you are enlightened.

      By all means, explore Wonderland for yourself because there are already enough of us scientifically testing this phenomenon. And congrats on more progress with OBE-styled WILDs. Autoscopy is a weird experience, especially when you see what appears to be your sleeping self—making you feel as though you have really left your physical body. By the way, looking at the ground and feeling it in lucid dreams can also help with stabilisation. At least it is something that tends to work quite well with me so it might also help you.

      I'm glad you found methods and techniques that work well for you. If they ever lose their effectiveness, for some reason, try something different and then return to what worked before if you so choose. For example, if you tend to visualise something when trying to induce a WILD, but on a particular occasion it's not working, trying 'listening in' until you hear something strange, or imagined, with great realism. I do think you are ready to continue by yourself and I'm glad to have helped. I don't think I've posted any guides here but I did one for the World of Lucid Dreaming website, entitled 'The Phase State' by Arlindo Batista, which was published by Rebecca Turner.

      You'll find some of my lucid dreaming art in Rebecca Turner's dream gallery here:
      https://www.world-of-lucid-dreaming....t-gallery.html

      But I also have an Instagram account with my art in general here:
      arlindo_visual_art
      THE PHASE = waking consciousness during sleep hybridisation at 40Hz of brainwave activity conducive to lucid dreaming and autoscopy.

    20. #20
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      Quote Originally Posted by Summerlander View Post
      I don't think I've posted any guides here but I did one for the World of Lucid Dreaming website, entitled 'The Phase State' by Arlindo Batista, which was published by Rebecca Turner.

      You'll find some of my lucid dreaming art in Rebecca Turner's dream gallery here:
      https://www.world-of-lucid-dreaming....t-gallery.html

      But I also have an Instagram account with my art in general here:
      arlindo_visual_art
      Thanks again for sharing. I will be sure to check out your guide. I think you have a lot to offer and other dreamers can benefit from your experience and teaching as I have.

      Iíve browsed some of your artwork as well and find it fascinating. The image titled ďAlienscapeĒ is so detailed. Did you recall it so vividly that you could remember how the buildings looked or did you have to re-imagine some of it? I used to be into drawing and surrealist artists when I was in highschool, my favourite being M.C. Escher. As I've gotten older Iíve drifted off into writing but Iíve been thinking about getting back into drawing. Maybe Lucid dreaming will provide some inspiration?

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