Use of Lecithin to Increase Dream Recall & Lucidity

**Hilary** · 04-24-2022 09:34 PM

So, in my exploration of baking bread I have stumbled upon something called "lecithin". It is a natural food product that comes from sunflowers, soy, eggs, and other foods. People use it in bread-making for the emulsifying effect. However, I immediately noticed that it naturally contains a type of choline (phosphatidylcholine). This sparked my interest, as acetylcholine is a neurotransmitter highly involved in dreaming - and higher amounts of it in the brain are strongly linked to lucid dreaming.

Not only is lecithin used for baking, but also as a supplement. People add it to shakes for brain health, enhancing memory, and as a general nootropic. I am curious to see how this product affects dreaming - vividness, recall, and lucidity.

I'm guessing this is going to be much less potent than Galantamine, Huperzine-A, and/or Alpha-GPC, as those supplements use acetylcholine (the type that goes straight to your brain), or block it from being naturally used up. For that same reason, I avoid those drugs as they mess with the natural order of things/the chemistry within the brain. Our foods don't typically contain this type of choline.

I like the idea of lecithin because it's a natural food product, the natural food form of choline (not modified to be the type that affects the brain more directly), and therefore, lets our body do the work to determine how much would get converted into brain-friendly acetylcholine. I feel like that may make it a safer supplement for healthy people to take. At the same time, it would provide our bodies (and brains) with all the choline it needs to be at peak performance - as our diet can often be lacking. Much like taking a protein shake when trying to build muscle.

Thoughts? Anyone have experience with it?

Here is a link I found from another thread from long ago that discussed lecithin and its use with dreaming:

https://www.dreamviews.com/attaining...am-recall.html

**WilliamThirteen** · 04-25-2022 03:40 PM

Hi MD,

indeed Lecithin is a good source of Choline, which is a precursor to our favorite Acetylcholine. While i agree that Lecithin may be a desirable method of increasing dietary Choline levels one might also want to take care which source of Lecithin is used, since each has accompanying compounds. For instance Soy Lecithin has phytoestrogens which can mimic the effect of estrogen. We use Lecithin made from sunflowers when we need an emulsifier. Regardless of the source, there are also some concerns that increased Choline levels can impact cardiac health.

"Although a direct link to heart attack has not been made, intake of lecithin or phosphatidylcholine (a major component of lecithin, which is found in foods such as eggs, liver, beef and pork) might raise blood levels of the compound TMAO. TMAO is produced from choline by the actions of microbes in the gut, turning choline into TMA, which is then absorbed and is converted by enzymes in the liver into TMAO. Higher blood plasma levels of TMAO have been linked with increased risk of heart attack or other major adverse cardiovascular event. TMAO can reduce normal cholesterol clearance and advance atherosclerosis (hardening of the arteries)."

https://www.consumerlab.com/answers/...line-lecithin/

for these reasons i prefer a targeted choline increase at WBTB time, usually accompanied by an AChE inhibitor - to retard to breakdown of the choline.
Another concern would be the long term desensitisation of the ACh receptors in the presence of elevated ACh.

But i would love to hear your experience as you experiment!

**Lang** · 04-25-2022 04:48 PM

I would consult a doctor before trying this out to be on the safe side.

**Hilary** · 04-25-2022 06:35 PM

Originally Posted by WilliamThirteen

Hi MD,

indeed Lecithin is a good source of Choline, which is a precursor to our favorite Acetylcholine. While i agree that Lecithin may be a desirable method of increasing dietary Choline levels one might also want to take care which source of Lecithin is used, since each has accompanying compounds. For instance Soy Lecithin has phytoestrogens which can mimic the effect of estrogen. We use Lecithin made from sunflowers when we need an emulsifier. Regardless of the source, there are also some concerns that increased Choline levels can impact cardiac health.

"Although a direct link to heart attack has not been made, intake of lecithin or phosphatidylcholine (a major component of lecithin, which is found in foods such as eggs, liver, beef and pork) might raise blood levels of the compound TMAO. TMAO is produced from choline by the actions of microbes in the gut, turning choline into TMA, which is then absorbed and is converted by enzymes in the liver into TMAO. Higher blood plasma levels of TMAO have been linked with increased risk of heart attack or other major adverse cardiovascular event. TMAO can reduce normal cholesterol clearance and advance atherosclerosis (hardening of the arteries)."

https://www.consumerlab.com/answers/...line-lecithin/

for these reasons i prefer a targeted choline increase at WBTB time, usually accompanied by an AChE inhibitor - to retard to breakdown of the choline.
Another concern would be the long term desensitisation of the ACh receptors in the presence of elevated ACh.

But i would love to hear your experience as you experiment!

Sheesh. Yikes! Thank you so much for your input. I did not know that. Definitely not sure if I want to proceed.

About the choline inhibitors (Galantamine, Huperzine-A) - Yeah, that was my concern too. Will my receptors become desensitized, therefore decreasing my natural ability to become lucid over long term use? That's exactly what I was worried about. I don't use them too often because of that concern.

I already eat a lot, and I mean a LOT of eggs in my diet (typically 3 day). I'm not sure if adding lecithin would be OK, or if I would be pushing it. I'll check with my GP because I'm seeing him next week anyways, and I'm pretty sure we're going to do the yearly blood work stuff, check LDL, etc. So it's the perfect time to bring it up.

Thanks guys!

**Voldmer** · 04-25-2022 09:11 PM

Several years ago I did my own study on Lecithin as a lucidity booster, and it did work quite measurably. I consider it a useful tool for use at WBTB time. Also, it is a supplement which gazillions of people take by the bucketload. The fact that no link has been established between lecithin and serious problems speaks volumes, given how much data on lecithin consumption is available. The pharmaceutical industry would have had a field day trashing it, if there was credible evidence against it (from their perspective it is a competing product). I consider it very safe and use it occasionally.

On the other hand, for someone who already eats three eggs a day, it seems somewhat dubious whether it would have any beneficial effect on memory or lucidity.

As for the AChE inhibitors, I would suggest using them on and off, with reasonably long off-periods. Huperzine A has a long half-life, and personally I use it no more than once every five days. Of course, lots of foods contain similar compounds, and this is probably important for a healthy life style. but supplements tend to have rather large dosages, so I would suggest not munching on those every day.

**Hilary** · 04-25-2022 11:54 PM

Originally Posted by Voldmer

Several years ago I did my own study on Lecithin as a lucidity booster, and it did work quite measurably. I consider it a useful tool for use at WBTB time. Also, it is a supplement which gazillions of people take by the bucketload. The fact that no link has been established between lecithin and serious problems speaks volumes, given how much data on lecithin consumption is available. The pharmaceutical industry would have had a field day trashing it, if there was credible evidence against it (from their perspective it is a competing product). I consider it very safe and use it occasionally.

On the other hand, for someone who already eats three eggs a day, it seems somewhat dubious whether it would have any beneficial effect on memory or lucidity.

As for the AChE inhibitors, I would suggest using them on and off, with reasonably long off-periods. Huperzine A has a long half-life, and personally I use it no more than once every five days. Of course, lots of foods contain similar compounds, and this is probably important for a healthy life style. but supplements tend to have rather large dosages, so I would suggest not munching on those every day.

I feel like I should say that while I've been eating 3 eggs a day for the last couple weeks or so, it's not something I do all the time.

Interesting. I will do some research on my own, in conjunction with asking my doctor about it. Assuming my cholesterol levels are completely normal, I might try it out for a while.

You know, for the longest time they thought eggs were bad for you, too. Glad they were wrong about that.

Thanks for your input.

**DarkestDarkness** · 04-26-2022 11:59 PM

Originally Posted by MoonageDaydream

You know, for the longest time they thought eggs were bad for you, too. Glad they were wrong about that.

Indeed, I still remember the mornings my dad would say "no" to me wanting an extra boiled egg because "one a week is what you're supposed to have" and then it was "seven a week" and then they figured there was no real harm in any amount (provided you weren't absolutely crazy about it, as with any food); in all honesty it never made sense to me anyway, because in my culture almost everything that's a cake or dough tends to be very egg-rich or some sort of enriched pastry/mix anyway, as it has been for a long time even before any of those concerns ever came up.

Like a normal sponge cake for us probably has four to six whole eggs or at the very least yolks, whereas one which people might make where I live now will at most usually have one egg. (Shameful! I need my eggy puddings

)