Thread: Something every LD'er should know, click here.

Hey guys, this will be pretty short. From reading over the questions posed to me by many attempting the "Trick your body into fall asleep while keeping your mind awake" method...it's become quite apparent that a majority of the people i'm approached by have similar problems that they can't seem to shake, but in my opinion are the easiest to solve. These problems i'm referring to are as follows...Attempting to LD at night, how to keep your eyes from moving/opening, how to stop swallowing (or at least how to do it without reseting your internal clock), and the "wave" of Sleep Paralysis. Although i've posted some very helpful information to assist you with said information in the aforementioned link, i'll go a bit more in depth here.

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Q: Why don't I ever seem to succeed when Ld'ing at night!
A: Because you're doing it...at night. Look, LD'ing or having an out of body experience without a couple of hours of sleep under your belt is as i've said time and time again "like fighting an uphill battle." It's not easy, believe me I know...but keep at it. And to add more credibility to WBTB's i'd like to inform you that 99% of my LD'ing and OBE'ing success has been because i've gotten sleep first and woken up after a few hours, only to go back to bed again. Don't make it harder on yourself...but if you still don't believe me and you're of the mind "Jeff, wtf do YOU know!! I'm gonna do it wheneva wheneva wheneva I want!". Fine go ahead. But let me explain something to you first. Your body is a chemical producing machine. It produces certain chemicals to keep us functional on a daily basis. The chemical responsible for awareness/clarity/consciousness dwindles down through the day from being used and only through sleep can that chemical be increased. My point being, biologically...it's harder to LD at night.

Q: My eyes won't stop twitching and moving! It's hard to keep them closed and whenever I get deeply relaxed...they want to open again!!
A: Got a case of the "over-eager and don't want to stay closed eye syndrome?" Copyright Pending. Sadly folks close-sesame won't work for this. The thing you MUST understand is that your body is a complex machine...your exterior is physical and there are certain things you must do for/to it if you want it to work in your favor. Again, i'm coming from a scientific and biological standpoint regarding this matter. You see the thing about your eyes is that throughout the day they are constantly on the move (this is called "micro-movements"), looking in many many directions, literally moving thousands of times before you turn in for the night. So your eyes are on redbull, what can you do? Work WITH the body versus against it. Before you attempt to do your LD, (If you haven't done a WBTB and you're just doing it straight off) Turn your lights off 30 minutes prior to attempting (Yes, stay in a dark room for 30 minutes...this gives your eye muscles a chance to relax without trying to keep them forced-closed. This works wonders for me...100% success rate wonders. A very dimly lit room can work as well, but it's not as effective as total darkness. I'll illustrate this point in a scenario i'm sure everyone is familiar with. While in a dark room, sleeping at night...ever had someone come in your room and turn on the light only to find this upsets your eye muscles and you quickly find yourself squinting so as to let as little light in as possible? Your eyes hurt just a bit because they have "adjusted" to the darkness, just as they'll have to "readjust" to the light. If you decide to WBTB before attempting, then the lights off or dimming isn't necessary pre-WBTB, though it is necessary your lights be off when you wakeup...during your WBTB time, keep your lights dim, preferably off. How important are the eyes you may say? The eyes don't matter that much you may think? The eyes are a critical component when it comes down to WILD'ing, whether you're moving your arms or you're moving your eyes...you're still moving and that can halt your chances of success.

Q: I can't stop swallowing! Everytime I try and focus on stopping myself from swallowing, I do it even more...it hurts and the saliva wells up in my throat! help!
A: Ah yes, now we're down to the infamous swallowing. Fold a towel and place it under your head to tilt your head slightly up so that saliva can naturally slide down instead of welling up at the back of your throat. That's about 30% of the victory when it comes down to not swallowing. The other 70% is by NOT FOCUSING ON YOUR THROAT. So many people will tell me "Jeff, I can't help it...I tried so hard not to swallow but then..." Energy flows where attention goes and attention goes where energy flows. What's that mean? That means the more you focus/direct your thoughts to something, the more you're going to increase that things chances of occuring. Sort of like the law of attraction. I had the hugest problems with trying "not to swallow"...but that only ended up in me doing it more and more. Focus/direct your thoughts to something else...monitor your body passively and let it do it's job without you focusing on every aspect of what's going on...what job is that? (TO GO TO SLEEP) When I stopped focusing on my throat and tilted my head up...swallowing when attempting a WILD was never a problem for me again. In the end, if you have to swallow...let it be something that's natural where you almost don't notice it...instead of consciously debating in your mind when the urge presents itself, whether you're going to or not.

Q: I've never felt a "wave of energy" when attempting, i'm a failure!
A: And you very well may never feel this "wave" i've heard so many talk about. I can recall only experiencing this "wave" once when transitioning into sleep paralysis. In my experiences with sleep paralysis...i've sunken through my bed, felt this "wave" of energy, felt vibrations, heard very loud beating on my bedroom door, and heard horrible blood-curdling screams right outside my bedroom door. These are (but not limited to) what you may experience. The buzzing sensation, ringing/roaring in the ear, and music being played are things that are a common occurrence during sleep paralysis...though i've never experienced them. Point made.

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To each and every one who has been trying and progressing (And by progressing, I mean learning more and applying what you're learning to change the results you're getting; eventually yielding better ones) I'm proud of you and through persistence and competence...I don't doubt that we will eventually reach our goal of being able to LD/OBE on demand.

I hope this helps.

I can't wait to hear what you have to say!

As far as swallowing, I can go for at least an hour without swallowing. Sometimes I'll swallow with no concious thought, and feel like I've somehow just screwed myself up... But does it actually matter?

Originally Posted by Abra

I can't wait to hear what you have to say!

As far as swallowing, I can go for at least an hour without swallowing. Sometimes I'll swallow with no concious thought, and feel like I've somehow just screwed myself up... But does it actually matter?

Ive found that i can swallow and it messes nothing up.

If you need to swallow try it, but right after you do swallow, completely go back to being relaxed, relax your throat and completely stop thinking about your throat as well. Act completely like you didn't just swallow and nothing happened

The eyes thing is interesting. Eyes move whilst your in REM sleep.
Sufferers of SP find they can move nothing but they're eyes.

In which case is it really neccesary to try and keep your eyes from moving when your
attempting to WILD?

Opinions please?

Last night when i was trying a WILD i didnt feel the wave, although i have before, but i did hear a very high pitched constant noise which wavered almost as if it was was circling around and around my head.

Wasat?

I attempted WILD for the first time a few hours ago. After maybe 15 minutes of lying completely still, resisting every urge to move the slightest bit or swallow, I saw a little HI (some guy saying something, I forget) and light patterns and felt a sort of slow buzz (not really a "wave") come over mostly my lower body, along with this feeling of a huge weight on my chest and stomach area... then some loud car drove by outside and I got distracted.

Thanks Jeff777 for your methods and tips, I'm sure I'll get it soon if I follow them carefully and those damn cars'll stfu

Originally Posted by moonshine

The eyes thing is interesting. Eyes move whilst your in REM sleep.
Sufferers of SP find they can move nothing but they're eyes.

In which case is it really neccesary to try and keep your eyes from moving when your
attempting to WILD?

Opinions please?

Would be most interested in gauging opinions on this one.
Cos if I don't have to concentrate to keep my eyes locked in place, wilding would be a lot easier I think.

Originally Posted by evan56780

i fell like such a retard for saying this for about the 3rd time, but what do you do with your eyes? do you keep them closed, if not how do you not blink? and how dose wild help you lucid dream? (that last question is new im just very curios. sorry for being so repetitive, im a newb i know... lol

I do apologize for getting to this thread so late . Don't feel bad for asking this question...it's a fairly common one. I too had a great deal of misconceptions about how to induce an LD when starting out just like many more people still have. So you're far from alone on this one. To answer your question, you have to keep your eyes closed. Remember, your body is going to sleep...it's only your mind that stays awake.

Originally Posted by moonshine

The eyes thing is interesting. Eyes move whilst your in REM sleep.
Sufferers of SP find they can move nothing but they're eyes.

In which case is it really neccesary to try and keep your eyes from moving when your
attempting to WILD?

Opinions please?

Yes, it is necessary to keep them still while attempting a WILD. The only difference between those in REM, those in SP, and those who are attempting without being in either starting off is that those who are in REM and SP's bodies are already asleep...then their eyes will dart and move about. Your body must be asleep still before this process of unconscious rapid eye movement happens.

Originally Posted by Adam24

Last night when i was trying a WILD i didnt feel the wave, although i have before, but i did hear a very high pitched constant noise which wavered almost as if it was was circling around and around my head.

Wasat?

Sounds like auditory hallucinations via Hypnagogia. Hypnagogia is the prequel to Sleep Paralysis and Sleep Paralysis is the prequel to WILD's . Continue on full steam ahead .

Originally Posted by aioinae

I attempted WILD for the first time a few hours ago. After maybe 15 minutes of lying completely still, resisting every urge to move the slightest bit or swallow, I saw a little HI (some guy saying something, I forget) and light patterns and felt a sort of slow buzz (not really a "wave") come over mostly my lower body, along with this feeling of a huge weight on my chest and stomach area... then some loud car drove by outside and I got distracted.

Thanks Jeff777 for your methods and tips, I'm sure I'll get it soon if I follow them carefully and those damn cars'll stfu

You're more than welcome should you have any additional questions feel free to ask. Please keep us updated with your progress .

Originally Posted by moonshine

Would be most interested in gauging opinions on this one.
Cos if I don't have to concentrate to keep my eyes locked in place, wilding would be a lot easier I think.

Concentrating on keeping your eyes locked in place is what will keep you from WILD'ing. It should be a passive thing.

Oneironaut_Jeff777, great post!

Originally Posted by Abra

I can't wait to hear what you have to say!

As far as swallowing, I can go for at least an hour without swallowing. Sometimes I'll swallow with no concious thought, and feel like I've somehow just screwed myself up... But does it actually matter?

Hi Abra The swallow reflex can be troublesome if you let it get to that point.

Originally Posted by Clairity

Oneironaut_Jeff777, great post!

Thanks Clairity

My problem is in controlling the wave that you speak of... if I do wbtb I can feel that wave almost everytime I wake up and go back to sleep and usually in a matter of 4-5 seconds. It also has a sound like my ears are about to pop or something is closing in on me. The only problem I have is that I'm aware of the wave and I move my eyes slightly taking me to a higher level of consciousness. Eventually I just end up passing out without 'staying up'


what can I do to embrace the sleep paralysis?

By doing just that, "embracing it". Don't move your eyes.

WOAH! Great post! This covers basically all the questions iv seen about this! Good work man, il try this again tonight!

i tried this technique so many times, but all i get is the tinglly sensation. My leg gets really heavy. I i don't know you mean by a wave.

I tried it last time and it felt like i was melting into the bed ( also heard a high frequency sound for a second ). Then it kept on repeating it self.

Two things,

1.
You didn't fully explain your eyes "re-adjusting to light" and I believe you may have the wrong conclusion. That topic covers twitching eyes but the process of switching from Daytime to Nighttime Vision has nothing to do with the twitching of the eyeballs. It deals with the pupils. During the Night your pupils get increasingly larger so that they can let more light in and see more. When you suddenly turn a light on from a dark environment your pupils are large and let all this light into your retina which hurts.
Not sure if you or others knew that but if you didn't than there you go.


2. When I experience the wave of SP, I dont go into SP....The "wave" of SP wakes me up and i snap out of it real quick. I am not afraid of it but its kinda just random and quick and so it wakes me up.

QUESTION! Is it unusual that if I sit in the one spot for any unnecessary amount of time (or lie for that matter) I get ridiculously uncomfortable. Even when just lying down to go to bed, I feel really off, the way my ribs expand and contracts just creeps me out. I try to sit it out but its very frustrating. However, the principle to this is the same as swallowing, the more thought you put into it, the more uncomfortable you get. I usually have to focus heavily on my imagination just so I don't freak out. Even in saying that, its bearable once I don't focus on it, its not like a severe condition or anything.

P.s. I'm confident that this isn't my body testing me. (I feel that later on) This happens all the time :S

Nice, awesome posts.

My HH are a little creepy, but I like them They never scared me. I usually hear voices and deeper, I can feel like someone speaking into my ear, I even feel it. I can't understand the voices but I'm OK with them. I also feel like micro-dreams... like if I would fall into a dream without dreaming... the images would flash my mind and I would hear noises, but I was certain I was not sleep, they pass and I return to nothingness but only sounds.

Just to clarify: Jeff stated that you need to sleep beforehand to Lucid Dream; what he meant was, you need to WBTB to have a WILD, but not any other type.

Originally Posted by Ethereal

Just to clarify: Jeff stated that you need to sleep beforehand to Lucid Dream; what he meant was, you need to WBTB to have a WILD, but not any other type.

You dont have to I know many people who have done it without sleep. But it helps so much to a point where its almost nescesary.

People who are having trouble with swallowing should try putting their tongue against there top teeth. It can be softly. I recently read someone saying they did this to stop swallowing, and I been doing it for two hours straight. I normally swallow a lot, but this doesn't make me swallow!!

Be prepared, as you will drool... A LOT.

I think I may have been close to SP, as my hand started to randomly twitch.

Jeff, wtf do YOU know!! I'm gonna do it wheneva wheneva wheneva I want!

Originally Posted by Codename

Jeff, wtf do YOU know!! I'm gonna do it wheneva wheneva wheneva I want!

+2 internets if you get the reference.

The wave is the chemical that creates SP going through your body

Hi I'm new to LD but i kinda tried half-heartedly a few months ago. I'm really trying to get committed now, I have a dream Diary and stuff but ive only started trying to LD again in the past week. Anyway i've been trying to use the WILD method as well as the MILD method. Neither has worked for me so far. But i'm mainly concerned about the WILD technique. While doing this i often have the need to swallow, (I read the top post so i no know how to counter that but have not yet put it to the test) but it is not necessarily a urge to swallow. It's not the saliva that is the problem. I just have a very powerful urge to use those muscles in a sort of swallowing action, but never have the need to actually swallow the saliva. It is defiantly a problem because i can put it off for about twenty seconds but the urge becomes so strong... its very hard to stop :/ also I often become close (at least it feels close) to allowing my body to fall asleep (still using WILD) and i feel a "wave" and this wave makes me feel as if im spinning. I try to hold on to it and embrace it, but it only lasts for a matter of seconds and then it just leaves. This feeling can happen up to 15 times and they can be very close together. I never actually drift into a conscious/dreaming state.
Any help with this topic would be greatly appreciated
thank you very much

Thank you so much jeff! I'm hoping ur swallowing Tec. Will help it seems to b this is the only th