Thread: Lucid Dreams don't exist!

I am not crazy enough to read all the things, but. U cant define anything if u think like this. U cant define good. Or lucid dreams. Or Life. Or character. Or about every single thing in the world. But when we say lucid dreaming we understand what are we talking about, so there is such a thing..

Hmm very interesting.
I do see what you mean..but got kind of bored and so skipped the last few paragraphs

Ok, I started reading it and at the end I don't know what you wanted to say. It's not your fault, it's me. Just as an answer to the question of lucidity. I know that Lucid dreams exist, because I've had normal ones and I can see the difference. There is no discussion about them existing, so the thread title doesn't make sense to me at all. It's like saying that there is no such thing as legs... I know I have them, I can see them! So i guess this discussion is out of my reach. Unless someone can outline the main points so I can understand it better, I see this as a philosophical discussion and not a discussion about "reality".

Ok.

I see what you mean and completely agree with you in the fact that we should completely abandon asking the question about "if it was a lucid dream" since only you could know. I also agree with you that we shouldn't be concerned aboud the amount of lucid dreams but rather the quality. But as for the fact that if lucid dreams exist, you are completly off the mark. For most people (actually all but you) a lucid dream is a dream in which you recognize that you're dreaming. The name "Lucid dream" means nothing to us (some of us may not even know what "lucid" means). It was just the name that the first person called it. If they started calling them "sepcial dreams" thats what we'd be calling them. And as for your thoughts of defining lucid dreaming, your essentially saying that nothing can be defined (which I actually agree with since there are way too many exceptions to everything). So as far as I, and everyone else on this board, the way we define it, "Lucid dreaming" exists.

I read it all without stopping. And people say I have a short attention span? Feh. They're just boring writers/speakers. Anyway, lots of philosophy here. Yup. May take me a while to sort through my total opinions on it. I'll spout whatever I have to say for the moment.

I agree that we cannot define abstract qualities like consciousness, intelligence, etc. We try to categorize these things because we like to; it is our nature. But just because there is no clear-cut line does not mean these qualities do not exist, right? Surely there is a practical difference between comatose and conscious, even if the line be blurry? Then why must you say that 'lucidity,' the 'knowledge' that one is dreaming, does not exist? Lucidity is in the same category as consciousness. There is a practical, although blurry, line between lucidity and non-lucidity.

Because we all do not have the same mind, our views on these definitions are entirely subjunctive in nature. So in theory, none of these qualities can really exist. But for practical purposes, for communication and growth, we try to create general definitions for them.

So yes, for all practical purposes, lucid dreaming 'exists.'

... Straying from this point, I'm just going to chat about this quote:

"Whether a dream is lucid or not has no inherent value to the dream itself."

Sure it does. You just have to look at it in the right light. In all of my summer lucids, I soaked up the experience, and just relished the fact, and pondered the fact, and marveled the fact that I was in a dream. That no matter how real it felt, I was actually in my bed. And I let that feeling, the feeling that our entire lives are subjectively experienced (just like the dream state) overwhelm me... It's important not to lose sight of that. Any good lucid dream must start with this fundamental awe. Awe breeds thorough consciousness, and signals to your mind that it's something you care about. I take note to make "feeling lucid" the top priority on my lucid task list. For if that is not accomplished at a satisfactory and thoughtful manner, then no lucid really matters.

I really enjoyed your response, Abra. I think you summed it up and even brought into view this notion:

Originally Posted by Abra

Any good lucid dream must start with this fundamental awe. Awe breeds thorough consciousness, and signals to your mind that it's something you care about. I take note to make "feeling lucid" the top priority on my lucid task list. For if that is not accomplished at a satisfactory and thoughtful manner, then no lucid really matters.

When one first begins to lucid dream, the mere idea of being lucid is enough to keep them interested and put them into a state of wonder at how one's mental self could be seemingly separate from their physical. I've had a couple of (low-level) LDs where I woke up and thought, "Well, that could have been better."

Anyway, just wanted to comment on that.

hahahhaha hey phalangees
does your nick derive from the anatomical term used to label fingers and toes? or what

Originally Posted by TempleGuard

I am not crazy enough to read all the things, but. U cant define anything if u think like this. U cant define good. Or lucid dreams. Or Life. Or character. Or about every single thing in the world. But when we say lucid dreaming we understand what are we talking about, so there is such a thing..

exactly...

There is a fine line between lucid dreams and regular dreams. I and most of the people here know the difference between a regular dream and a lucid one, that's what matters. It doesn't have to be an accepted fact for it to be real.

I read the entire thing, and agree with most of the points, except your statement that lucid dreaming doesn't exist. By the same logic, you could argue that happiness doesn't exist, that hatred doesn't exist, etc. Just because you can't define where the line between lucidity and normal dreams is exactly doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Johnny, get meh boomstik